favorite star wars character (possible spoiler)

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:00 am

[QUOTE=Echuu Shen-Jon]That is true,and palpatine made anankin remember how his mom died and told him he could prevent Padme's death but would have to become a dark jedi and knew he would come to his aid where he would find him helpless and wounded and he could finally convince him to join the dark side.Plus after the fight he used the damage windu did to him when windu deflected his lightning to convince the Senate to support the Galactic Republic's transformation into the Galactic Empire, thus beginning the Galactic Civil War,so yeah in the end paplatine basicly used windu to create his empire.But i think that in just saber to saber combat windu would out duel palpatine.[/QUOTE]
I guess we'll never know the answer to that, same as we'll never know if Darth Vader would be able to kill Obi-Wan aboard first Death star since he forfited that combat so Luke could escape.

On Palpatine's look I heard an interesting theory: Basicly it said that Palpatine looked like that as a result of his extensive use of Dark Side of the force (he managed to hide himself and his apprentices from all Jedi Masters and he actualy affected their ability to use the force) and his look is a result of a powerfull Force Illusion. Due to strain of his combat with Mace he lost control of that illusion so it ceased to work and his true apperance is shown (not to mention that it also served nicely in his plans for Anakin to see him like that). And after the fight he choosed not to use illusion again because that injury is a big evidence that Jedi attack him (only the force can age someone for decades in matter of minutes and who other than Jedi use the force?

)

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:01 pm

I doubt it. After all that speed-fighting in episodes 2 and 3, that fight on the Death Star (and Luke's subsequent battles with Vader) seem tame in comparison. Something tells me Vader would have won, regardless whether Obi-wan sacrificed himself or not.

That's an interesting theory. It makes more sense than the electricity doing the damage; you don't see that kind of thing happen to anyone else who gets struck. But I always figured that was something more like what happened to Palpatine, that he was using some illusion to hide his true appearance. But drawing on the Force like that should have drawn the attention of the Jedi.

Superdude · Post by **Superdude** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:30 pm

All these replies, and no one's mentioned Han Solo as a favorite?

"I love you."
"I know."

"I was born here, you know."
"You're gonna die here, you know. It's convenient."

Give some love for my boy Han. This is the character that I spent my life trying to be.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:46 pm

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]I doubt it. After all that speed-fighting in episodes 2 and 3, that fight on the Death Star (and Luke's subsequent battles with Vader) seem tame in comparison. Something tells me Vader would have won, regardless whether Obi-wan sacrificed himself or not.[/QUOTE]
Of course that it looks tame in comparision. Those scenes were filmed 20-30 years ago and comparing them with lightsaber duels in prequel trilogy is just not fair. Besides, victory in lightsaber duels is based more on one's understanding of the force than raw strength and power. Yes, Vader might emerge victorious, but it would be a very loooong fight. Not to mention that it's quite possible Obi-Wan had some glimpse of the future so he knew he could not kill Vader, because he had to be around to save Luke and kill Emperor.

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]That's an interesting theory. It makes more sense than the electricity doing the damage; you don't see that kind of thing happen to anyone else who gets struck. But I always figured that was something more like what happened to Palpatine, that he was using some illusion to hide his true appearance. But drawing on the Force like that should have drawn the attention of the Jedi.[/QUOTE]
As I understood that theory it states that Palpatine uses the force to both hide his presence from a Jedi (remember Vader sensing Obi-Wan's presence on Death Star) and mask his true appearance at the same time.

Admo · Post by **Admo** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:14 am

I still think Obi-Wan was much stronger in the Force than Vader. In saber-to-saber combat alone, probably Vader, easily the best fighter among the Jedi (along with Mace of course). But as a complete package, Obi-Wan was probably still a tiny bit higher than Vader. He recognized that it was Luke who would destroy the Sith, and not him.

It would have been a very, very long duel. And I think pretty much 50-50 had Obi-Wan not sacrificed himself at that moment. On the speed of that duel, part of it is because it was 30 years ago, but you must also remember that Obi-Wan is probably well into his 50's, and Vader will be approaching that (not sure on the exact ages). I always remember that fight being REALLY slow but when you watch it back, it isn't that bad, I think a lot of it can be put down to age.

I think Mace would have won that fight. While Palpatine is quite powerful, Mace was one of the most powerful Master's ever - he was the only master of that light-saber form, despite it bringing him in close proximity of the dark-side, only he could tame that. And Palpatine only became the Sith Master by killing his master in his sleep - powerful, but mainly devious and underhand.

Echuu Shen-Jon · Post by **Echuu Shen-Jon** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:42 am

Originally Posted by Ripe
On Palpatine's look I heard an interesting theory: Basicly it said that Palpatine looked like that as a result of his extensive use of Dark Side of the force (he managed to hide himself and his apprentices from all Jedi Masters and he actualy affected their ability to use the force) and his look is a result of a powerfull Force Illusion. Due to strain of his combat with Mace he lost control of that illusion so it ceased to work and his true apperance is shown (not to mention that it also served nicely in his plans for Anakin to see him like that). And after the fight he choosed not to use illusion again because that injury is a big evidence that Jedi attack him (only the force can age someone for decades in matter of minutes and who other than Jedi use the force? )

The force power that comes closest to what you described would probably be mind control,which palpatine did master,and used on Anakin,but i've never heard of it being used by one person on alot of people for an extended period of time.And as for the duel between Vader and Obi i'd say vader would be victorious because jedi trained by both light and dark side masters are ussauly better because with the training of the force from the jedi and the saber skills from the sith makes the ultimate jedi.By the way does anyone know vader's saber form?

saagard · Post by **saagard** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:40 pm

ok, 1st of all, id have to say Darth Nihilus is the coolest, because he killed the planet Katarr all by himself,using only the Force. And his death mask thingy is pimped out.

2nd, I have to yell at Penguin King, 1) Hes got Nihilus as his avatar and he picks Mace Windu, and 2) Windu's lightsaber is violet. Learn your colors before I smack you with my pimpstick.

red
yellow
blue
green
orange
purple

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:09 pm

Actually, Vader was the strongest Jedi ever, at least as far as potential goes. He just never got powerful enough because of obvious reasons, but was well on his way. He dueled with obi and was very much a match to obi's skillz except that he got arrogant and got three limbs chopped off and his body burned. But he was less than half obi's age and that's something. After that much of him was machine but no doubt he still was more powerful than obi, and with many more years to hone his skills. His lightsaber form was Form IV, but I don't remember the name. Obi's lightsaber form was III. (I could check the game but I don't think Kotor's names are canon, because Mace was Form VII and it's not called Juyo in Star Wars canon but is in the game.)

Mace is by far the coolest because he could get near the dark-side and handle it like no other master could, and was also the most powerful warrior. Speculations of whether he let himself be beat or not, Palpatine lost to Mace but not to Yoda, even though it was close. Yoda was a more powerful force user but possibly not as good a fighter. I also like the fact that he uses the most powerful lightsaber form and that he looks really badass. He can also deflect palpatine's lightning. We don't know if Luke could have done it with his lightsaber (he was really stupid to throw it away like that) but it is unlikely.

Darth Nihilus would have been cool had he not died in 2 battle rounds. For someone who is completely uber powerful and ate planets and held entire battleships together, he was a real big ****y.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:53 am

[QUOTE=Jack Dell]Yoda was a more powerful force user but possibly not as good a fighter.[/QUOTE]
Wrong. Yoda is most powerfull fighter and best swordsman among all Jedi. Obi-Wan said that in AotC himself (not sure of exact quote but it was something like: "My young apprentice if you spend that much time practicing you'd be as good a swordsman as Master Yoda."). If Mace was better it would be Master Windu not Master Yoda (just my reasoning).

[QUOTE=Admo]On the speed of that duel, part of it is because it was 30 years ago, but you must also remember that Obi-Wan is probably well into his 50's, and Vader will be approaching that (not sure on the exact ages). I always remember that fight being REALLY slow but when you watch it back, it isn't that bad, I think a lot of it can be put down to age.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jack Dell]He dueled with obi and was very much a match to obi's skillz except that he got arrogant and got three limbs chopped off and his body burned. But he was less than half obi's age and that's something.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that actual phisical age had anything to do with Jedi's combat ability. Remember Yoda was close to 900 years old and he's still considered greatest fighter of the order. Since Jedi use the force to help them in combat it all come down to one's understanding of the force - lightsaber forms training help a bit but it's not critical.

Since it does not come from a movie this explanation may not be what GL had in mind but a novel I, Jedi gives a great insight in how force actualy works. In combat that help comes in a way of insight into your oponents mind and thought process when he chooses his next attack giving you some sort of precognitive powers. The greater understanding of the force you have, the more insight (and sooner) you got. It's actualy hinted that greatest masters of the force actually fight 2-3 moves in advance. Like I said it's not from any movies so it may not be correct (and I think that I mention this allready on another thread, so I apologize if I seem repetitive)

maverick8088 · Post by **maverick8088** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:32 am

The Y-wing pilot who told his wing commander to loosen up when he was chanting "Stay on target".... and Jek Porkins kicked ass right up until he smeared his fat lard butt all over the hull of the first Death Star....

Seriously, though, favorite movie baddie Darth Maul: no reason he should have lost that fight. His replacement (Tyranus) sucked, although you have to give credit to Christopher Lee for landing major villan roles in the two biggest movie trilogies ever. Still Maul was the most fun to watch, the only saving grace of Ep. 1. Now if only he had killed JarJar

Favorite EU baddie: Grand Admiral Thrawn. no force powers, alien in a human biased Empire, dominant in every statisical field. Alexander the Great in space

Favorite movie good guy: I'll probably catch flak for this one, but I gotta be true... Luke Skywalker. I've always identified with the underdog. Luke went from less than nothing, to savior of the galaxy and his father. It was just a lot of fun watching him grow from the whining farm boy to a full fledged Jedi Knight. Really one of the driving plot lines for me in the book Shadows of the Empire.

Favorite EU good girl: Mara Jade. I've always had a thing for redheads, esp. bad ones who deep down are just misunderstood criminals with a penchant for the force and have murderous commands implanted in their psyche, attitude and sass that is more than a match for anyone, and enough whoop ass to take on anyone that so much as throws a thud bug. Did I mention she's a redhead?

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:25 pm

Wrong. Yoda is most powerfull fighter and best swordsman among all Jedi. Obi-Wan said that in AotC himself (not sure of exact quote but it was something like: "My young apprentice if you spend that much time practicing you'd be as good a swordsman as Master Yoda."). If Mace was better it would be Master Windu not Master Yoda (just my reasoning).

While it is hinted at in that phrase I have books that say that Mace is possibly the most powerful fighter. He is a guardian after all, Yoda being a consular. And I do believe he would have defeated Palpatine where Yoda failed. Perhaps it is merely the philosophy that endows Mace with a more powerful batte prowess, being that Mace has that dark draw that would allow him to get the job done quicker. Also Mace could perform the Force Crush tecnique which is something that Yoda could never accomplish being that he is a Paragon of goodness and all that crap and could never use such a technique. The reason that Grevious was panting and wheezing at the start of the movie is because he had just suffered that technique from Mace.
Whatever your position on this they were probably a match in battle, and it is probable that Yoda could very well win, but against Sith I think Mace is the ultimate warrior.

I don't think that actual phisical age had anything to do with Jedi's combat ability.

How do you figure that? The more time you have the more experience and understanding with the force you can achieve simply because you had more time. The only reason why obi could defeat anakin is because of his experience and age, otherwise anakin's raw talent would have been too much to handle. So yeah I think that physical age has a lot to do because it is obviously linked to experience, wisdom, and as you say understading of the force. Yoda learned to stop force lightning even though anakin could not because he had more experience, 900 years of it, even though anakin had more raw power than Yoda. If it were all about power and nothing else would come to play, then anakin would have killed them all no problem.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:57 am

Jack I'm sorry, we misunderstand each other. When I said that I don't think that actual phisycal age had anything to do with Jedi's combat ability I was thinking more of Admo's statement that Episode IV Obi-Wan vs. Vader duel is slow because of their age. I was thinking about purely phisycal abilities (to use D&D analogy their Strength, Dexterity and Constitution) not their mental ability (same D&D analogy Inteligence, Wisdom and Charisma) which got enhanced with passing of time.

[QUOTE=Jack Dell]The only reason why obi could defeat anakin is because of his experience and age, otherwise anakin's raw talent would have been too much to handle.[/QUOTE]
Take note that it's exactly the same situation in Mace vs. Palpatine combat - Palpatine got experiance and age, Mace got combat prowess(sp?).

[QUOTE=Jack Dell]While it is hinted at in that phrase I have books that say that Mace is possibly the most powerful fighter.[/QUOTE]
I can't argue on that because I do not have any Old Republic book. I have all post Return of the Jedi books (except X-Wing series because one of my friends got those), but I just couldn't find any that deal with Old Republic.
Besides you know what cannon types exist in Star Wars Expanded Universe:
G - George Lucas - movies, novelization of movies, scripts & everything comming from GL
C - Continuity - pretty much all EU - autoritative as long as it not contradict G cannon
S - Secondary - mostly older works or some computer games - third in rank
N - Non-continuity - various What-If works, single EU works that contradict all others - not considered cannon

Under those rules books may state that Mace is best, but since GL said it's Yoda in AotC, Yoda is considered best swordsman (not figter, so maybe it's not contradiction) among Jedi because GL said so.

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:41 pm

Yeah sorry I read it wrong my bad.

I'm not disagreeing with you in the fact that Yoda probably was the best swordsman but perhaps not the most powerful combatant like you very well say that is not necessarily a contradiction. I take this from the Star Wars visual dictionary where it says:

"A form VII instructor, Mace Windu is one of the best living lightsaber fighters in the Jedi Order. Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control Form VII. The dangerous regime cuts perilously close to the Sith focus on physical combat ability."

I am not saying that it is stated anywhere that Mace is better than Yoda, like I said before "possibly the most powerful fighter". However judging by the movie and I do agree with you that they are first canon, he seemed to easily disable Palpatine where Yoda could not. Thats why I like his character so much. He seems to have been the only one who could ever defeat him. Yoda came close, Luke got whooped, and the other three generic Jedi were pathetic. It is possible though that Yoda could win, like I said, but the fact that Mace has more of a borderline combat philosophy I think makes him the better fighter (knowing more about both sides of the force is something that is stated several times in books and in RotS by Palpatine as something that makes you more powerful.)

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:09 pm

Well, yoda has been training the ways of the jedi for years, I look at it this way, 200 years of the force, and 200 years of the lightsaber.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:29 pm

[QUOTE=Jack Dell]However judging by the movie and I do agree with you that they are first canon, he seemed to easily disable Palpatine where Yoda could not. Thats why I like his character so much. He seems to have been the only one who could ever defeat him. Yoda came close, Luke got whooped, and the other three generic Jedi were pathetic. It is possible though that Yoda could win, like I said, but the fact that Mace has more of a borderline combat philosophy I think makes him the better fighter (knowing more about both sides of the force is something that is stated several times in books and in RotS by Palpatine as something that makes you more powerful.)[/QUOTE]
I think that Yoda actualy beat him in lightsaber combat so Palpatine started to throw all those senate seats at him. The only reason Yoda left was because he fell to the bottom of Senate Hall while Palpatine was still neat the top some 1000 feet above him, so Yoda knew that he'll never reach Palpatine before he got reinforcment in form of his Royal Guards (at latter days they were all Force-sensitive) and Clones. While Yoda could beat one or the other he knew he could not fight Dark Lord of the Sith and couple of hundreds Clones at the same time.
You forget one other that could defeat Palpatine - Anakin/Darth Vader. If I remember corectly in one point of their battle Palpatine tells Yoda that boy (meaning Anakin) will became more powerfull then two of them combined - that is the main reason he wanted Luke to replace his father as his apprentice.

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]Well, yoda has been training the ways of the jedi for years, I look at it this way, 200 years of the force, and 200 years of the lightsaber.[/QUOTE]
And you still miss 400 years because Yoda said "For 800 years, Jedi I have trained."

saagard · Post by **saagard** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:38 pm

hey Jack Dell, I didn't know we were being supergeek technical; but statwise, Nihilus is a pushover, and I think the fact that you beat him in 2 hits means you need to get a life. Or a significant other. But seriously, you can't deny that übercool mask.

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:58 pm

LOL ease off the insults and the amphetamines man. Seriously, I have a life and a significant other, and many claim to have beaten Nihilus in 2 rounds. Regardless, stop insulting and being such an annoyance. If you get worked up over a forum then you should ask for some manner of assistance. I just like Star Wars like so many other people.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:02 pm

[QUOTE=Ripe]And you still miss 400 years because Yoda said "For 800 years, Jedi I have trained."[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I ment to say 400, not 200.

Solahma · Post by **Solahma** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:26 am

I'd agree with whoever said Nihilus was a push over, create a better character or delete and reroll your current toon, or rethink your current toon.If you cant beat Nihilus in a few rounds then obviously you arent equiping the right gear with the right class.Theres plenty of gear, use your brain when you equip your stuff, you dont have to be a SW nerd to figure out you want a robe with upgrades then a padawan robe, or a Lightsaber with some good crystals then none at all.Its common sense.

saagard · Post by **saagard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:17 pm

[QUOTE=Solahma]I'd agree with whoever said Nihilus was a push over, create a better character or delete and reroll your current toon, or rethink your current toon.If you cant beat Nihilus in a few rounds then obviously you arent equiping the right gear with the right class.Theres plenty of gear, use your brain when you equip your stuff, you dont have to be a SW nerd to figure out you want a robe with upgrades then a padawan robe, or a Lightsaber with some good crystals then none at all.Its common sense.[/QUOTE]

What? that makes no sense.

Sorry Jack Dell, but I still think this should be determined by coolness, not actual physical strength.
This is a forum, speak your mind.