The Wrath of SYM

[jopperm2]

I am very calm most of the time. I get worked up when typing here in a debate or something but that's about it.

When someone pushes my buttons too far though, look out. I only get in a rage about once every few years. The last one ended in me moving, the police taking someone away, and a divorce(not mine).

[Brynn]

[QUOTE=CM]If i have a gun in my hand i am the type to shoot first and think about 3 or 5 weeks later.[/QUOTE]
Me too. Unfotunately.

[giles337]

[QUOTE=Brynn]Me too. Unfotunately.[/QUOTE]

Except in Brynn's case, it's a bow, not a gun

[Cuchulain82]

I am pretty good at controling my temper, but by saying that I have to acquiese that I have a temper. I am generally a pretty happy guy, and I spend most of the day giggling to myself about silly jokes and just trying to make people laugh.

With that said, I come from a long line of brawlers. Usually people don't mess with me- I'm pretty big and don't go looking for trouble. I'm sensitive to the things everyone else is, like somone attacking my family or friends. There are two things that instantly send me into a rage: a man hitting a woman and people making fun of other people who are mentally or physically handicapped. I don't really know why, but either of those things sends me into a rage. People hitting or mistreating animals also upsets me.

I think that Fable made a very good point in his post, and I agree. People who abuse power get me mad, but not in the same way as he said. Maybe I am a little more detached or cynical, but I expect people in power to abuse their status. I get mad about it, but it doesn't really last long or enrage me.

Edit- btw, congrats on 10,000 posts DW. I'm not sure what post count means exactly, but in this case I think it indicates the consistancy of your wonderful presence here at SYM

[C Elegans]

Perhaps we should make a distinction between "temper" and "manner" then. "Temper" pertains to our raw emotions, while "manner" pertains to how we act on our emotions.

Precisely. I am absolutely convinced that there is no relationship between the intensity of "temper" and the resulting "manner", for the same reasons you describe below.

I realize that I might piss off some people for saying this, but when people lose their temper and go into a rage, I don't think its because they are more "passionate" than I am or because their emotions are any stronger than mine; I think they're just in the habit of acting like babies. I think they need to grow up and learn how to put things in perspective and get used to not getting everything their way and and learn how to respect other people even when other people are out of line.

Whether you want to hold the attitude that you are a "victim" of your own emotion and "can't help" how you are acting, is a personal choice. Judging from scientific studies (as well as personal experience), this choice of attitude has nothing to do with the intensity of emotions, but is instead related to personality traits and cooping style. Cooping strategies is something everybody can learn providing they are not severely learning impaired. Personally, I avoid people who view themselves as "victims" to circumstances and their own emotions, and thereby give themselves the right to behave in ways that are unconstructive and/or unfair to other people. I really dislike when adult people expect to be treated as babies.

From a health-related viewpoint, it's been shown that defensive and self-victimising cooping styles have a high correlation with a variety of psychological unhealth. It has a correlation to high anxiety levels, depression/depressive traits and stress-related diseases. So if these bawling babies don't care about acting fair to other people, they could at least consider their own health

[Magrus]

There's a big difference between having a temper and coping with it, and saying you can't do anything about it. As I said above, I have a nasty one, and I've learned to avoid the situation that made me angry until I've calmed down to prevent my temper from causing a problem. I've yet to learn how to control it given certain trigger's however. Seeing someone being abused and hurt is simply too much for me given my history and my temper. If it happens to be a particularly bad incident, I go after the person doing the abuse. Otherwise I say something and leave before I end up doing something violent.

As a general rule though, I won't get violent unless someone else has done so already near me, and either myself or someone else unable to defend themselves has their health in jeapordy. If someone's hit me and rejected my warning of being torn apart if it happens again, and hits me a second time, I just lose all self-control that they did so. If someone goes after one of my friends, most of whom are very small, female and pacifist's, I don't do well with that either.

Coping mechanism's don't fix a problem, simply allow you to deal with it under most circumstances. I say most, because anyone I've known who's had a problem and learned to cope with it still has the one or two things that just don't allow them to use that coping mechanism. I had this same type of discussion with a psychiatrist, he said only "sick people" got angry and had violent thoughts and that he'd never had either situation come up. Boy, did I prove him wrong. I don't think I've ever seen someone get as angry as he did so quickly before. Everyone get's upset, angry, whatever, and everyone deals with it in their own way.

Everyone also needs to learn how to work out how to adjust the responses to their emotions to a day-to-day schedule. Spilling a cup of water and flying off the handle is very, very different than losing your calm when someone happens to assault you for no reason IMO.

[dragon wench]

In all seriousness, I have gotten much better at controlling my temper. But, it is somewhat mood-dependant and certain things or personality types can trigger it quickly. For example, I have very little patience for extremely egotistical people and bullies, so such individuals are far more likely to cause my blood to boil over.

I have discovered, actually, that maintaining a controlled, icy cold demeanor and simply glaring at somebody is far more gratifying and effective than losing one's cool, however.


@Cuch, lol! Thank you
I was actually hoping nobody would notice.....

[Magrus]

When I end up getting emotionally detached, I make cruel, sadistic comments and tend to cause fights to start. I have this odd knack for being able to peg a person's fault's and history very well within a few moments if I'm in that state and I tend to set people off very, very easily.

[Cuchulain82]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I have discovered, actually, that maintaining a controlled, icy cold demeanor and simply glaring at somebody is far more gratifying and effective than losing one's cool, however. [/QUOTE]
While I wholeheartedly agree, don't undersetimate the level of gratification that one gets from beating the snot out of someone who is out of line.

[QUOTE=dragon wench]@Cuch, lol! Thank you I was actually hoping nobody would notice..... [/QUOTE]
Well, the seret's out now, so CONGRATS!

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]While I wholeheartedly agree, don't undersetimate the level of gratification that one gets from beating the snot out of someone who is out of line.


Well, the seret's out now, so CONGRATS! [/QUOTE]

Umm.... I recall that.... When I was small, I used to get into trouble at school sometimes for fighting... I've never been especially big, but I was quick with my fists and feet


Cheers

@Magrus,
oh yes.. being detached and going right for the jugular is greatly satisfying

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]While I wholeheartedly agree, don't undersetimate the level of gratification that one gets from beating the snot out of someone who is out of line.[/QUOTE]

*snicker* Normally I'm against violence, but when someone pushes me to the point I act violent, I take full and extreme satisfaction in doing just that. It's not a pride or macho thing, I just end up satisfied someone got what they deserved. Generally, a good beating will work wonder's for curing bullies of their need to pick on other people. It's also very effective in getting guys who grope my friends to never come near them again. When discussion fails, and someone's still doing something they shouldn't be, it can be quite handy. I won't just pick fights to solve a problem quickly, but if boils down to that kind of situation where talking hasn't worked and the person is still doing something they shouldn't, dropping them to the floor tends to stop them quite nicely.

In almost every situation I've had that happen in, nearly everyone around me has thanked me for it too. There are just some thing's you don't do in public, or to other people, and those things disgust or upset just about everyone who notices or is forced to endure them.

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Umm.... I recall that.... When I was small, I used to get into trouble at school sometimes for fighting... I've never been especially big, but I was quick with my fists and feet


Cheers

@Magrus,
oh yes.. being detached and going right for the jugular is greatly satisfying [/QUOTE]

That's how I was when I was young. I was small, quick and hadn't learned to control my temper. More often than not, if I got attacked with my little brother around, he'd launch himself at the person at take care of them before I had time to realize what was going on. If he wasn't around though, it wasn't uncommon for me to tear one kid apart, have his two friends get upset and come after me and I'd end up putting them down and going to the nurse to see if I'd broken anything before heading back to class.

Isn't it though? It's almost as good as sex.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Magrus]Isn't it though? It's almost as good as sex. [/QUOTE]

Hmmm..... Now that I'm really not sure of

Deliberately setting other people off when you think they deserve it gives you a momentary feeling of control and it can be gratifying in its way, but the act itself is quite negative in the end.

Sex, on the other hand, provides for happy, positive satisfaction that lasts a lot longer

[Magrus]

I dunno, when someone's pushed me into my sadistic mood's, I don't give up on going after someone verbally for quite some time and I happen to get quite happy over the reaction's I recieve. I once got stuck on a bus ride for 3 hours, an hour in of dealing with someone's crap I ended up like that and he had to deal with me like that for 2 hours. He was curled up in his seat sniffling with his face buried in his knees the rest of the ride and I had oh so much fun.

Then again, it really doesn't compare to having a good partner, but those are just so hard to find.

[dragon wench]

@ Magrus,
lol! fair point, and if the situation calls for it.....

regarding partners, well I'm lucky that way. Whatever problems my SO and I have had over the many years we've been together, chemistry and sexual compatability have rarely been an issue

I think what I was trying to say in my above post, is that sex releases a lot of endorphins that just make you feel good in a very positive and healthy way.

Whereas, either blowing your stack or coldy manipulating somebody into a snivelling, squishable bug... It just doesn't make you feel good in the same sort of vein. And, I have to be honest.... Even when somebody *really* deserves it... later on, in the cold light of day, I don't feel especially good about myself

CE is probably right, that sort of thing is extremely stressful and emotionally draining. This is why I've worked so hard over the years at learning to master my temper.
However, I still let loose sometimes

[Loudannoyingkid]

When I was in Pre-K I got really angry at this kid from second grade. He was picking on me because I was smaller than he was, so I grabbed his left arm jerked it hard and started twisting until I heard a 'snap'. His arm broke and I was expelled. I learned to get control of my anger because I was deathly afraid of my father at that time, but when I went into seventh grade this surfer boy, wiger boy hit me in the face(didn't even leave a black-eye). After that I waited untill the last day of school and pumbled him untill his blood was on the congrete.

[Magrus]

I have a little mental checklist I go through before I lose my temper. I think through whether my actions will

A. Have a long-term, negative effect on myself, and whomever it is I'm attempting to help if it isn't just involving me.

B. Whether or not letting go of self-control and lashing out will have any form of constructive effect on the situation and the one I'm lashing out on.

C. Whether or not it's going to end up getting me arrested.

If I know that my lashing out at someone won't get me arrested, won't have a negative effect of some sort on me, and will teach the other person a lesson, if they push me that far, I don't hold back. Whether it happens to be verbal or physical. I go all out. If not, I wander off on my own until I cool down.

So when I DO let loose and go off on someone, most of the time, I do feel good about it since I thought it through. There are the odd situations I feel bad, especially when in a relationship and an argument get's nasty on both sides of things. My last one was like that, two stubborn people with bad temper's don't work too well in an argument.

That is lucky , although, if all else fails when trying to distract myself from a situation making me angry, sex is a very good way to calm me down. My girlfriend's all ended up making use of that when something set me off, generally with someone mistreating my friends. I've had people say it's not good to use sex as a coping mechanism, I haven't had any problem's with it. So long as both parties involved realize what's going on at the moment, and are happy with it, I can't see why that would be a problem. So long as you still work out the problem afterwards it works quite well.

[Darth Zenemij]

I exploded at a walmart store, I was going to buy milk and I saw 1/2 percent milk and I yelled, "WHAT KIND OF PLACE IS THIS? MAKING 1/2 PERCENT MILK, GO AHEAD AND MAKE 1/16 OF A DECIMAL PERCENT OF MILK" And then I just started to scream and scream, I was tempted to throw the milk in my hands at the people who were watching, But I controled my self.

[Magrus]

The only times I get like are when people are being ridiculous and are in my way in a mall. I can't stand mall's, being in one irritates me like no other in the first place. If I'm stuck behind someone doing something idiotic and they are keeping me from leaving, I let them have it. Some of the things people get in mall's are just pointless and grate on my nerves so much it's hurtful.

[Loudannoyingkid]

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]I exploded at a walmart store, I was going to buy milk and I saw 1/2 percent milk and I yelled, "WHAT KIND OF PLACE IS THIS? MAKING 1/2 PERCENT MILK, GO AHEAD AND MAKE 1/16 OF A DECIMAL PERCENT OF MILK" And then I just started to scream and scream, I was tempted to throw the milk in my hands at the people who were watching, But I controled my self.[/QUOTE]

Zenemij you have problems that kind of milk is for people on 'DIETS'.

[C Elegans]

A good coping strategy is meant to make use of your anger in a constructive way. Many people can use it to be more creative and efficient than when they are not angry. I am convinced most people can learn constructive coping strategies for most situation, but some situations happen so rarely so the lack of training will make it more difficult.

I am totally amazed how you manage to meet all these totally lousy psychiatrists, do they grow out of the ground where you live? First, violent thoughts is something completely different than acting out violent towards people. Thinking and acting are far from each other. Second, illness and anger has little relationship. Obviously patients with severe problems will be more frustrated than healthy people because they have impairments - not surprising - but only patients with impluse control problems will display more aggressive acts than healthy people. Stating that only "sick people" get angry is equivalent to saying only "sick people" get sad. Did this guy get his diploma by mail order?

Spilling a cup of water and flying off the handle is very, very different than losing your calm when someone happens to assault you for no reason IMO.

Yes, looking at people who suffer from their lack of abiliy to channel aggression or other negative emotions into constructive acts, one of the most common problems I see is the low level of responsiveness. Getting strong negative emotions from trivial everyday mishaps, taking things personally and getting easily offended, feeling like you are the victim for a lot of bad things, is very common sources for unncessary negative feelings.

*snicker* Normally I'm against violence, but when someone pushes me to the point I act violent, I take full and extreme satisfaction in doing just that. It's not a pride or macho thing, I just end up satisfied someone got what they deserved.

This will be very dependent on the type of situations that tend to make you angry. I cannot even remember a situation where I think violence would have resulted in the outcome I was wishing when I was really angry at somebody. Let me take an example:

A while ago I was involved in an international research project about a major neurological disease. In this project, was one professor who consistently, over 2 years, ruined part of the project because she wanted to carry out a "secret" side project that did not involve the collaborators, only her own lab. She used money and resources for the common project in order to carry out experiments that would not be part of the common project, but her own. This caused considerable delay for the entire project, which in turn dimished the chances for all the other involved labs to get further funding to continue the project. It also happened that the method this prof used, had already been tested by my lab about 10 years ago, and demonstrated to not work out well. Even people at her own lab said this method was unreliable. So, in the end not only the common research project (including 10 labs worldwide) suffered from her behaviour, but also the patients since this method is a dead end. So, what would have been gained from expression my aggressions by lashing out physically at her?

Nothing, except for a brief moment of personal emotional relief for me. Which in this context is worth nothing. The best use for anger IMO, is to induce long term, constructive change. So what I did was simply to stand up at an international conference that included all of the collaborators plus the EU-commission who funded the project, and trash her research.

Obviously this did not make her happy. She hates me to this day. The project coordinator told me later that after the meeting, this prof had started crying and refused further cooperation with me and my lab. This does not make me feel better at all. What made me feel better, was that the result of my public critisims towards this profs methods and destruction of collaboration, was that everybody involved started to largely ignore her demands after this, and stopped spending energy and resources on her. She was excluded from the part of the project she had so far hampered, and thus the project could proceed as planned. In other words, she lost the power to destroy the project, and now promising results have come out of this part.

Just to illustrate how violence may not at all be a suitable means of gaining what you want from a situation where you are angry. Also, I certainly don't think sadism is something to be proud of. Do you job, not more, not less. Sadism is an overreaction that comes from satisfaction in having the power and control to hurt others, not from satisfaction in reaching your goal.