thouroughly disgusted with draconis and sendai

Maragaine · Post by **Maragaine** » Sun May 22, 2005 2:56 am

I had been really enjjoying playing tob except for the past 3 days. I have been reading the forums for help have tried numerous ways to get my party past either draconis or senday. time after time after time i get almost to the end of senday herself and boom party gets creamed, have even gone back to fortress and tried different npc.s to no avail , this is cruddy, not enjoyable any more...even worse with draconis think i will take a break fm tob for a year or so...i mean sheesh, it is nice to have difficul battles where u have to think your way thru but cant touch draconis as green dragon, have tried ruby ray instead of pierce etc ...dang now i have a nasty headache fm this ...

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun May 22, 2005 4:19 am

If you give us an overview of your party and the characters you're using, then advice could be given more specifically.

Here’s some general 'Beating a Dragon' advice:
-Make everyone is very protected with spells, such as mirror image, stoneskin, blurr, prot. from fear/magical energy/elements, spell deflection, spell trap and spell immunity (abjuration, so your protections are not dispelled). You get the picture. Also, try to haste them with preferably improved haste. Protecting your fighters with prot. from energy and elements is advised against dragons and spellcasters.
-Get a mage with the Robe of Vecna. Make sure he/she has timestop and improved alacrity memorised. Cast improved alacrity, then timestop, then throw every dispelling/breaching spell you have at the dragon. Start with the highest ones, preferably rube ray of reversal. Then throw spells as spellstrike, khelbens warding whip, Breach(!!!!!) and perhaps a few lower resistance spells to make the dragon is vulnerable to magic. Throwing magic missiles and what else when you've lowered the dragon's defences is a good way to do some damage.
-Have your fighters throw everything they've got at the dragon. Try to have a few summons for distraction. If one of your NPC's gets hit and is close to dying, make sure you retreat him/her to drink some healing potions. Once he/she is healed, wallow back in battle again. Have your mages keep throwing dispelling/breaching –I can’t stress the importance of breach too much- spells at the dragon, combined with some offensive stuff (melfsmm, magicm, you get the picture).

That should work. Actually, this works for most enemies you encounter. Including Sendai

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun May 22, 2005 4:53 am

Don't feel bad, Draconis is the single most difficult battle in the game. I agree with all Sytzes suggestions, but Draconis has the annoying habit of going invisible, so you'll need the True Sight spell as well.
But knowing your partycompostion would make it easier to give you advice.

dj_venom · Post by **dj_venom** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:23 am

I am completely the opposite to you. Not to sound arrogant, but I beat SOA and didn't have TOB. A couple of months later, I got TOB and played it. IT WAS EASY. Every battle took no more than one reload, if that. Except for the final battle, I believe that it was by far too easy. I'm not trying to sound good, I'm just stating what happened. Don't hate me

.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:50 am

Hm, in my first game most major fights in ToB forced me to reload at least a few times. As for Draconis, IIRC it took this forum to help me kill his green heinie.

Maragaine · Post by **Maragaine** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:17 am

thanks

[QUOTE=Coot]Don't feel bad, Draconis is the single most difficult battle in the game. I agree with all Sytzes suggestions, but Draconis has the annoying habit of going invisible, so you'll need the True Sight spell as well.
But knowing your partycompostion would make it easier to give you advice.[/QUOTE]
My base character is lvl 22 archer, level 20 minsc, level 25 anomen, lvl 20 nalia, aerie, 15c 16m, and imoen lvl 20 mage...got reea close last night lol had draconis near death, ran out of npcs and character got creamed...oh well will keep trying...

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:35 am

You're an Archer? Man, I'm not sure what on earth you're doing wrong when you have that PC and those NPC's. Maybe if you tell us where things go wrong in the battle, we might be able to advice how to counter it.

At any rate, use Anomen and Minsc up front. You could always add one of your mages with all his protections activated to those two. I'm a really big fan of the Shapechange ability, so try turning into a Golem with one of your mages. The bugger is, combined with the mage spells, immune to almost anything. If Draconis does manage to hit your mage, who's turned into a Golem, shapechange into a Greater Werewolf to heal yourself. In the meantime let the other mage cast those dispelling/breaching spells, while Aerie throws all those offensive arcane and devine spells at the dragon.
As for your own PC: use Greater Whirlwind (or Improved Haste) as often as you can. Activate Called Shot when posible as well, for it will lower the dragon's saves. Try switching arrows once in a while. Normal arrows, +3 arrows, Arrows of biting, Arrows of dispelling, you get the picture. What bow are you using, by the way?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:10 pm

And which spells have you memorized for Nalia, Anomen and Aerie? The most important thing is to bring down Drac's immunities and magic defenses. I've always done well against dragons using the Lower Magic Resistance spell... preferably more than once. Like the name says, it makes your opponent more vulnerable to magical attacks. Also, like Sytze says: Breach and similar spells.
Also, summons can be helpful, but don't use them before D. transforms, because during the transformation all (your) summons die.
Anomen should be able to summon a Planetar or Deva by now. You can only summon one at a time, but use 'em!

kams · Post by **kams** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:56 am

To Kill a Dragon

My friend, who plays BG for the first time, killed Draconis just this morning. And she used tactics, of which I have never heard!
But, from the beginning:

Everithing was fine - she easily killed Yaga-Shure, with some troubles disposed of Sendai, but then she was stuck with Draconis. For two days this dragon badass kept on killing her. She almost wanted to give up... till this morning.
Today she killed this dragon SOOOO easily, that even I was really impressed.

In her struggle she tried to use different spells versus this unbeatable enemy, and eventually one worked out! Limited Wish! I didn't believe first!
You know what she asked from the genie? She said something like "I want all my spells restored".
The genie said "OK! Now noone knows any spells!"
And all her party had forgot all the spells, but the same thing happened to Draconis as well!
Then it was just the matter of time to deal with fat dragon, who can not cast anything.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:14 am

[QUOTE=kams]In her struggle she tried to use different spells versus this unbeatable enemy, and eventually one worked out! Limited Wish! I didn't believe first!
You know what she asked from the genie? She said something like "I want all my spells restored".
The genie said "OK! Now noone knows any spells!"
And all her party had forgot all the spells, but the same thing happened to Draconis as well!
Then it was just the matter of time to deal with fat dragon, who can not cast anything.[/QUOTE]

Haha, wonderful!

Maragaine · Post by **Maragaine** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:07 pm

incredible

[QUOTE=kams]My friend, who plays BG for the first time, killed Draconis just this morning. And she used tactics, of which I have never heard!
But, from the beginning:

Everithing was fine - she easily killed Yaga-Shure, with some troubles disposed of Sendai, but then she was stuck with Draconis. For two days this dragon badass kept on killing her. She almost wanted to give up... till this morning.
Today she killed this dragon SOOOO easily, that even I was really impressed.

In her struggle she tried to use different spells versus this unbeatable enemy, and eventually one worked out! Limited Wish! I didn't believe first!
You know what she asked from the genie? She said something like "I want all my spells restored".
The genie said "OK! Now noone knows any spells!"
And all her party had forgot all the spells, but the same thing happened to Draconis as well!
Then it was just the matter of time to deal with fat dragon, who can not cast anything.[/QUOTE]

that was fantastic, will have to try that when i take my new party that way in a few days...great job...

kams · Post by **kams** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:56 am

I just wanted to mention that this tactics... well...
It does not work always.

Today my friend tried to do the same thing with Abazigal, but... she and her party forgot all the spells and Abazigal did not. Or perhaps it only works for certain monsters?

(Or maybe Abazigal just has infinite spells - he is a big boss after all)

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:01 pm

well I have a strategy I always use to deal with dragons...
I take all my mage and cleric class npc's (mostly 2 - 3).
each mage is wielding a lightning wand
cast lower resistance as many times as you can, then cast holy smites+ lightning spells untill the dude is put down ( the other npc's are occupying the wyrm meanwhile)
of course, with lower resistance you CAN use ADHW on Draconis.
time stop is lovely too... you can take him out very easily with the right combination of spells... but thats comming from a sorcerrer...

anyways... Draconis is a pain... don't let him screw the game for ya

Lord Tansheron · Post by **Lord Tansheron** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:11 pm

I admit Draconis is not the easiest enemy in the game

However, any general tactic on how to beat Dragons works fine for him.

Variant 1: Lay down Spike Traps and lead him along them. And watch him die

Far too easy though and not really an ejoyable fight...

Variant 2: Have your mage cast Time Stop, 3-4 Lower Resistances and random attack spells (Magic Missile or Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting)

Variant 3: Have your tanks surround him as good as possible. Make sure they're buffed well enough (especially with protection from fear) and have the mage cast Breaches. You'll probably need someone with True Sight as well. Draconis is not as tough as you might think, you can beat him to pieces quite easily if your micro-management is good enough.

If you feel you can't beat him, no matter what you try, maybe your levels aren't high enough. Try to do some additional quests or level a bit in Yaga-Shura's House. Check your equipment, does every one use the best weapon available? Maybe you have some alternative armor or other items you might want to try?

Have fun!

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Sat May 28, 2005 10:46 am

When playing with a couple of mages and at least two strong tanks, Lower resistance of the wyrm and bombard him with old and good magic missile, after breaching/warding whip the dragon for a while.

You should not have trouble killing them...

Oh, dont try this tactic in tactics mod, they'll really catch you before. For tactics, a good timestop and removing spells/lowering resistance combos are tons better.

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:58 am

Sympathies; I also found this the single toughest (and most enjoyable) fight in ToB. Invisibility makes targeting spells very tough.

I'm afraid I can't remember the details of how I did it, but it was a great fight, with several deaths and resurrections along the way. Jan dealt the coup de grace with a crossbow! IIRC, Project Image was a must-have to double up all the spell slots, as was True Sight. Summoned Devas were handy too.

My tiny hamster brain is straining to remember: can you target innately invisible opponents with spells when you've got True Sight on the go? I seem to remember having problems with this; could be because his invisibility kicks back in before True Sight visiblises (!) him again.

Stick with it, experiment with different spell combos, and you'll get there!

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:36 pm

Do you guys really find Draconis that hard? To me, both Abazigal, Sendai, Last Boss, Ravager and a lot of battles in Watcher's Keep, not to mention Demogorgon himself, WAY harder.

Anyway, as you have a really big arena, make sure you're not standing to tight, use traps (time traps works wonders) and do not forget True Sight with all your mages, clerics and inquisitors... well anyone who can. Though this all has already been stated.

Xanidu · Post by **Xanidu** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:29 pm

[QUOTE=Thrifalas]Do you guys really find Draconis that hard? To me, both Abazigal, Sendai, Last Boss, Ravager and a lot of battles in Watcher's Keep, not to mention Demogorgon himself, WAY harder.

Anyway, as you have a really big arena, make sure you're not standing to tight, use traps (time traps works wonders) and do not forget True Sight with all your mages, clerics and inquisitors... well anyone who can. Though this all has already been stated.[/QUOTE]

i agree with thrifalas, draconis was one of easier battles for me and sendai, she was a pushover, although i think that the hardest battle was the Demogorgon, but thats just cuz i didnt really want to bother fighting him or find out how to beat him. Final battle was really difficult to me though, i had to reload countless times. I think its just the way the players personal-style comes into the game.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:47 pm

I'm positive I would have found the last battle a lot harder if I hadn't, by mistake, read on a forum that "Wish" is pretty much all you need as you can't rest in the Throne. That makes the battle up to 2, maybe 3 times easier.

Although I still figure Demogorgon is harder without using wish. I went straight to the final boss after beating him yesterday, and I didn't have to use Wish nor reload a single time

Edar Macilrille · Post by **Edar Macilrille** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:29 am

Well, if you want harder and more challenging battles, try the Tactics Mod. Then set to "Insane", I never tried that, find it hard enough in "Normal".
The most difficult battle I faced there was the Eclipse one, enemies always gets in the first shot for some reason when you enter an area, usually you can counter that by having your guys beefed and prepared before they enter a room, but the Eclipse encounter you have no such chance, on the contrary, the Eclipse party is prepared and does that Time stop thing where their entire party can act while none of you can. THAT is hard to do anything about. I would like to know if anyone have beat that with no cheese??

Best wishes; Palle