The Cheese Guild

spork · Post by **spork** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 12:07 pm

Would you consider it cheesy if six burly adventurers hold a door closed while various nasty creatures partake of lovely Cloudkilling fumes within?

I certainly wouldn't, if I were holding the only door out of the room, and there was no place in the room that wasn't poisoned. This is legit, as well as Entangle/Web/Hold + Cloudkill on top. Good, thank you for reminding me of non-cheesy applications for the spell. The last one actually makes sense, but the problem is, if they fail their STs against Web, you can probably also kill them easily without Cloudkill.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:58 pm

Another Cheese poll:

Whilst soloing a badly outfitted Stalker, I had to eke out every advantage I could get. I would walk around stealthed, sneak up to an enemy with a blue circle, backstab them, quickly pause the game, hide in shadows again (since there were still no enemies around), and backstab them a second time while they turned red.

Cheese? I think it is. Only reason it works is because of some BG definition that says you may hide in shadows if there are no creatures with red circles around. Even a blue circled creature would be alerted and hostile after being royally knifed in the back.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Sep 16, 2001 3:53 pm

Horrible Wild Mage Cheese discovered. Cover your nose!

Nahal's Reckless Dweomer must be the most powerful spell available. It does not remove your "alacrity", which means you can immediately cast again!

Who needs Improved Alacrity!? Just cast six Nahal's Reckless Dweomers to get Dragon's Breath or whatever big flamin' stuff you like, and everything is dead!

Almost makes you wish the Ring of Wizardry still doubled your first level spells like in BG1, eh?

Shadowwarrior · Post by **Shadowwarrior** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:07 am

Is that spell only avaialble if using shadowkeeper?

Shadowwarrior · Post by **Shadowwarrior** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:16 am

By the way, a nice cheese tactic. Having a high leveled sorceror or Mage (more than the exp cap) cast simulacrum. Then let your copy cast it too, and then the copy of your copyand copy of the copy of the copy and so on. The later ones will have no name and use the default male/female voice (probably not the one used by you character). Then you will have a army of clones! (But very high level required, or else you copies can´t cast simulcrum unless they have it on a quickslot scroll). I wonder if you can combine that with project image? (haven't tried)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:18 am

Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is a standard level 1 Wild Mage special spell (how's that for a contradiction in terms?

).

I always have my Project Images cast Simulacrum, and I noticed that somewhere along the ToB levels, Simulacrums get the ability to cast Project Image (which can again cast Simulacrum). Dunno after that (though this means 3 generations of clones already).

I am often unable to reproduce previous over-cloning experiments, but I believe that second generation clones lose name, voice set and items. Later generations may even lose all spells.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:05 pm

Simerclariem and cast a sequencer select a cleric and bang 3 dooms all in one

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 1:34 pm

Cheese? I think it is. Only reason it works is because of some BG definition that says you may hide in shadows if there are no creatures with red circles around. Even a blue circled creature would be alerted and hostile after being royally knifed in the back.

If i snuck up behind you and

royally knifed

you i the back and hide agin before you turned round i'd alow that if it were slowed/thick.

[ 09-26-2001: Message edited by: craig ]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 1:38 pm

The simulacrum is a level drained clone. Use restoration (Planetar) to go back to the original level. Unfortunately spells cannot be restored (Wish:rest works only for party members).

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:10 am

Kovi, buddy, if you have a sim cast restore via scroll it will get all spells back????!!!!

Evil, evil, evil!!!

Someone mentioned in the tob forum, in the weak sorc thread if you inflict contagion and ray of enfeeblement on a creature it works like mind flayer int drain. apparently yyou need to hit with ray, drops str and dex to 5 or so, then multiple contagion will reduce stats to 0, which is instant kill. have imoen prepare a set of sequencers and triggers...

think killing a dragon by having ****es all over its body...

korgy will demand a bonus for getting near it and whacking with his axe, getting pus all over his nice blood stains...

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 2:39 am

The Enfeeblement+Contagion combo could also work on creatures which are immune to +2 weapons (mind flayer). Though you have to cut spell defenses, lower resistance and the saving throws to succeed.
It is usually easier Shapechange to Mind Flyer and use a Spell Trigger with: Improved Haste, Tenser's Transformation.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 2:58 am

The simulacrum cannot regain the spells, only the levels (which still might be important when casting level dependent spells, like Animate Dead or Dispel Magic).

The level calculation of the Simulacrum is tricky. The real level is the same as the caster, but it has a level drain effect half of the apparent level of the caster.
Example: a 31 level caster creates a simu, which has a 31/2=15 level drain, results an apparent 31-15=16 level. The next simulacrum still has level 31, but the level drain becames: 16/2=8, resulting an apparent 31-8=23 level.
Unfortunately this higher level child generation can't get back the higher (9th) level spells, as the parent simulacrum had already "lost" them.

Items are "fixed" in the first generation (they won't drop) and they are not copyied to the later generations.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:26 pm

Kovi, you da man! You saved me some serious testing.

BTW, how exactly does that Contagion/Ray of Enfeeblement stuff work? Why would it kill MINHP1 creatures?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:33 pm

thats an evil tactic, you retain spell triggers with spells loaded in shapechanged form. warning, you have to trigger the spell trigger on yourself for buffing spells. cont and cahin can be set to target self, but not triggers. hey, i wonder if you set up triggers to buff, can you cast on a npc?

must try out..

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:34 pm

thats an evil tactic, you retain spell triggers with spells loaded in shapechanged form. warning, you have to trigger the spell trigger on yourself for buffing spells. cont and cahin can be set to target self, but not triggers. hey, i wonder if you set up triggers to buff, can you cast on a npc?

must try out..

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 1:37 pm

sorry, i use analog phone line, pity me...

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Thu Sep 20, 2001 2:59 pm

As I wrote it in earlier threads, Contagion has a stat decreasing effect (lowers Str, Dex and Cha by 2). And any stat lowered to/below zero is instant death (like the infamous int drain). Ray of Enfeeblement just speeds up the process by setting Str to 5.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 10:31 am

Ah, yes. I read it in the ToB thread.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 2:19 am

Dunno if this is cheese or if it was ever mentioned in this thread (you guys are the experts anyway

), but I discovered that wizard slayers can use some magic items usually not usable by them IF you haven't identified it as such. My current wizard slayer is using an unidentified boots of speed (still blue) and he gets to use it with its special abilities...

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maharlika ]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:31 am

There are some nasty spells/places which result in a (total) spellcastfailure effect (eg. Insect swarm, Beholder anti-magic ray, Protection from Magic scroll or Anti-magic areas). Netiher priest spells nor mage spells can be cast successfully.
Most of use had already known that scrolls/wands/innate abilities can still be used within these circumstances.
The new discovery is that mages can also use (create/fire) (Chain) contingency.