Do you think Jackson is guilty?

[Mangle Me Elmo]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's a friggin duck! Jackson is a child molester, and so experienced that he knows which kids to target, how to get them, and when to do it. The jury are imbeciles for not sentencing Jackson to the death that most certainly awaits him in a prison shower room. Still, he can't escape final judgement. Maybe he'll get raped in hell by some demons or something.

[yumi]

Mmmmm????

no hes guilty just the fact of the boy i would beleive a kid then an 50 year old man that had 10 counts.

[Xanidu]

I dont really care as to whether Jackson is guilty or not seeing as how he is on the opposite side of the US, but I have one thing to point out. I was told that Jackson could not smell pheramons (sp?), male or female. Would this not mean that a women or girl would be the exact same thing to him as a man or boy would be. Other than the visual differences of course.

[Fiona]

Magrus
I think the standard of proof in a criminal trial is "beyond REASONABLE doubt". That's quite different from the "shadow of a doubt" and it emphatically does not mean that there can be no doubt of any kind in the mind of any person.
It is true that some members of the jury have said that they think he probably did molest children. In the UK jury members are not allowed to discuss the case afterwards and I have to say I think that is a sensible rule. Jury members are not all immune from a desire to be on TV, and they may be subject to other pressures too. For example this jury cannot be oblivious to the fact that many people do not accept the verdict and that they will be unpopular in some quarters. They have reasons to avoid responsibility for the outcome and to try to imply that the prosecutors did not present the best case.
As to the civil case: It is possible that Mr Jackson settled out of court because he wished to avoid the kind of publicity we see now. It is likely to harm his reputation and his career. It is also possible he was guilty, but I do not see how we can be sure of anything.
The vengeful tone of some of the posts here are disturbing. The rule of law is the roof we all shelter under and I feel very strongly that we should accept the verdict unless and until there is fresh evidence. Any one of us could be charged with a crime, and if innocent does not mean that we have no protection at all. Are you all willing to accept the consequences that would follow from this?

[Mangle Me Elmo]

My point is that those jurors moronically based their verdict on the credibility of the mother and not the kid. Afterall, it was the KID who accused Jackson, not the mother. I was very disappointed when I heard the verdict, but I can rest easy knowing that Jackson will get what's coming to him in this life or the next, possibly both.

[Magrus]

*laughs* Fiona, I said I ignored the whole case and had no interest in it. My country is correct, money rules here. Case closed. I don't pay attention to such things here. I've no clue what's going on in that case aside from what the media has said, and I don't trust the media anymore than I trust the local coke-sniffing police, or the dim-wit I have for a president.

[Tower_Master]

Or even the coke-sniffing dimwit president!

[Magrus]

*giggles* Oh, it's funny, but so...so..SO sad and horrible.

[Denethorn]

Whatever happened to national pride, Mag ?

Incidentally, I think Jackson is not guilty. Probably my liking of his cheesy but addictive music overriding better judgement. I think he is mentally warped by his career etc. but I don't see him as an evil man, he looks more childish and naive to me, and as such tells a heavily prejudiced and unforgiving society without fear how he "shares his bed" with children.

The whole scenario reminds me very much of Luc Besson's Leon: The Professional.

[Mangle Me Elmo]

That coke sniffing dimwit whooped Kerry's booty several months ago. get over it. We won, you lost.

[Tower_Master]

It wouldn't be nearly as funny if it wasn't so scary.

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]That coke sniffing dimwit whooped Kerry's booty several months ago. get over it. We won, you lost.[/QUOTE]

I take it you work in the same office as that dimwit then eh? Otherwise that "we won" thing is irrational and insane.

[Mangle Me Elmo]

My family donated it's fair share of money to the Bush campaign, so we can take a small fraction of credit for the President's triumph.

[Magrus]

Everybody blame elmo for the worlds problems.

Whatever happened to national pride, Mag ?

National pride? What's that? I didn't choose to be born here. I don't have the money to go elsewhere, I'm stuck here. It's a trap I tell's ya!

Erm. Let's see. I think MJ's a loon for sure but let me rethink this one here. He has children, so he obviously knows what sex is in the first place aye? His agent didn't do that for him. So, he knows what it is to have a "casual touch" and "sexual touch". He's not a closet case virgin. Either he is deeply disturbed and can't rationalize certain actions and in need of serious (and good help. That's incredibly hard to find in the states, believe me ) , or this is all a wash and he's guily but was proclaimed innocent.

[Denethorn]

@Elmo (Serious question) - Can I ask you why you voted for Bush over Kerry? Moreover supported him so heavily?

(Sorry for going OT here, just curious)

[Mangle Me Elmo]

Ironically I feel the same way about living here as Magrus. Sort of. I see this country in a downward spiral as culture and morality continue to deteriorate. Our great democratic empire will someday go the way of the Roman empire; torn apart from the inside by it's own permissive society. Jackson may be disturbed, but make now mistake, he is cunning in his methods. He targets only young boys who come from troubled families, which worked in favor of the defense as they constantly pointed out the mother's lack of credibility, irrelevant though it was. I don't care what happens to him, just so long as he can't scar another innocent boy for life. As to the question as to why I supported the President over Kerry, the moral issue listed above should suffice. However, I am strongly opposed to the President's weak stance on illegal immigration. He may be a morally righteous man, but he is a politician afterall, and is just doing it to garner more hispanic votes.

[Vicsun]

[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]Ironically I feel the same way about living here as Magrus. Sort of. I see this country in a downward spiral as culture and morality continue to deteriorate. Our great democratic empire will someday go the way of the Roman empire; torn apart from the inside by it's own permissive society. Jackson may be disturbed, but make now mistake, he is cunning in his methods. He targets only young boys who come from troubled families, which worked in favor of the defense as they constantly pointed out the mother's lack of credibility, irrelevant though it was. I don't care what happens to him, just so long as he can't scar another innocent boy for life. As to the question as to why I supported the President over Kerry, the moral issue listed above should suffice. However, I am strongly opposed to the President's weak stance on illegal immigration. He may be a morally righteous man, but he is a politician afterall, and is just doing it to garner more hispanic votes.[/QUOTE]
Why is it that you start with the assumption he's guilty (even though he was proven innocent in a court of law)? Do you have access to some evidence other than what was shown to the courts, or do you believe you're more qualified to assess the current evidence (I'm assuming of course that you are familiar with all of it and know every detail of the trial indepth) than a judge?

[VonDondu]

Vicsun, we're been hearing allegations against Michael Jackson for years, we have witnessed his fondness for children (which goes way beyond a normal person's interest in them), he's weird, and he's a celebrity--which means we hear about him all the time whether we want to or not--so it's not surprising that most people have formed their own opinion about his guilt or innocence.

I don't believe all of the allegations that have been made against Michael Jackson, not because I think that none of them are true, but because the long string of allegations (some of which might be true) has made him an easy target for false allegations from disgruntled employees and lowlifes who want Jackson's money. The fact that he has paid tens of millions of dollars to families of children who claim to have been abused not only indicates that he might be guilty of abusing children, but it also means that people who make false accusations might be able to get money from him. Or even if they can't get any money from him, it's a great way to hurt him if that is their intention.

You really have to question the motives of any parent who, after all these years of horror stories, would knowingly expose their children to such risk. When the jurors looked at the latest accuser's mother, they saw someone they couldn't trust. If she took her child to Jackson because she expected her son to be abused, then her intentions were even worse than Jackson's. If Jackson did not in fact abuse her son, it's easy to believe that she told her son to lie so that she could still achieve her desired objective. That's why the current case flopped. I don't think the trial proved Micheal Jackson's guilt or innocence; I think it proved that the accuser's mother was on a mission to get Jackson's money. That seemed to be the conclusion of the jurors, based on what some of them have said to the press.

[Mangle Me Elmo]

I've said this before, but I'll rephrase it in a simple manner: If it walks like a child molester, talks like a child molester, and acts like a child molester, then it must be a child molester. Aside from that, I'll believe a little kid who says he was molested rather than believe Jackson's attorney. And I'll also say this again: the kid's mother is irrelevant because it was the kid who made the allegation, NOT THE FRIGGIN MOTHER.

[C Elegans]

1. A pedophile is a person who has prepubescent children as the object for romantic and sexual love. It's a sexual orientation, like heterosexuality or homosexuality. A minority of pedophiles molest children, just as a minority heterosexual men molest women.

2. Child molesters can sometimes be pedophiles, but a majority are not. They molest children for other reasons than romatical or sexual desires.

[QUOTE=Mangle Me Elmo]If it walks like a child molester, talks like a child molester, and acts like a child molester, then it must be a child molester. [/QUOTE]

And how exactly does a child molester walk, talk and act? Are you aware of any special variables that provide markers for a person being a child molester, other than the actual act of abuse? If so, your opinions differ from the worlds expertise on child abuse and abusers. What evidence do you have, that the court did not consider, that Jackson is in fact a child molester?