Why Paladins?

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:41 pm

Personally, I consider both Paladins and Bards powerful classes. While its true you have to be "Lawful Good" to play the class, that's hardly a limitation. Rather, its fuel for good role playing. In terms of abilities, while they lack the advanced specialization options of the Fighter, they are, otherwise, comparable in combat abilities. On top of this, they have helpful immunities (depending on kit), saving throw bonuses, some nice maintenance abilities (i.e. their limited spell casting, turn undead is situationally useful), some helpful burst abilities (i.e. lay on hands, Protection from Evil, and some other kit based abilities such as Remove Fear, True Sight), and debatably have the best melee weapon in the game at their disposal. Moreover, the cavalier kits have additional to hit and damage bonuses against dragon and demon based critters. In my estimate, this equates to a fairly decent power rating. While its true that they lack in spell casting to Fighter/Cleric, they are more combat based than said dual/multi class option.

Similarly, bards can be a fun and challenging class to play. They receive some substantial spell casting abilities, a decent melee combat table, a fast advancement table, one of the most interesting strong holds, and the ability to use most of the items in the game (including some very good bard only items). Ultimately, they can be powerhouses in middle and advanced levels. They just require more strategy to use.

While its probably true you could create potentially more powerful characters than either of these through creative use of dual classing, both of these classes can certainly hold their own in terms of power. They are also rich in role playing options.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:57 pm

[QUOTE=Erenor]What is tactics and where can I get it?![/QUOTE]

This thread will help you regarding modifications:

BG REF CROSSROADS

Tactics is a modification that increases the toughness/need for cheese - tactics - in a lot of battles, add a few classes, corrects some spells, add lots of items and makes many people insane because its really hard. But you may install only the classes component.

Try downloading it from Weidu.org. Here is the link
If you're not a powergamer, I say again: Dont install the improved combat modules. You'll get frustrated and bored with the game. If you havent finished the game with every class yet, or not soloed iet, or you havent read UU's Cheeseguide, I wouldnt recommend using Tactics. So install the module you want (extra classes) and have a nice gameplay.

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:49 pm

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]This thread will help you regarding modifications:

BG REF CROSSROADS

Tactics is a modification that increases the toughness/need for cheese - tactics - in a lot of battles, add a few classes, corrects some spells, add lots of items and makes many people insane because its really hard. But you may install only the classes component.

Try downloading it from Weidu.org. Here is the link
If you're not a powergamer, I say again: Dont install the improved combat modules. You'll get frustrated and bored with the game. If you havent finished the game with every class yet, or not soloed iet, or you havent read UU's Cheeseguide, I wouldnt recommend using Tactics. So install the module you want (extra classes) and have a nice gameplay.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link and again for the advice. I'll play through the game a few more times before attempting to mod anything else.

Wabbit · Post by **Wabbit** » Sun May 08, 2005 3:28 am

Paladins and Bards have their special points that make them unique. I personally prefer multi-classed characters to single or dual, but there are still reasons to use a pally or bard.

Comparing the Paladin to a Fighter/Cleric, the Paladin has a much better weapon selection. They can use swords, spears, crossbows, bows. Fighter/Cleric can only use a sling. This isn't such a big deal in BG2 because of the flail of ages, mace of disruption and crom fayr. In general terms the use of swords and bows is pretty significant though.

Bards as compared to F/M/T - well, I am playing a F/M/T now, but Bards are a great party member, in addition to a thief IMO. The bard has better weapon selection than a regular thief - halberds, spears, bastard swords, two handed swords, heavy crossbow. The bard also has bard song and bard instruments - this is nice because they are not 'spells' as such, so they don't get dispelled. The bard song works in the no-magic rooms in Watcher's Keep for instance. For abilities, the bard is no thief but the pick pockets is nice since your thief will not have to learn it. The lore is a handy utility as well.

One thing is that the D&D classes and rules were initially set up to go to level 9 or whatever. At 9th level the Paladin makes a good showing vs. the fighter/cleric. Over the long haul of BG2/TOB the multis and duals pull away, where the paladin and all the straight fighter classes get boring. They helped this out with the kits, Undead Slayer and Inquisitor and quite good. Those immunities are really helpful.

Krusader · Post by **Krusader** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:18 pm

I've played nothing but paladins in every RPG that has them. Suits my personality in real life perfectly.

Bards, I have never really used them.

My first time in BG I played a ranger. Kinda sucked if you ask me. Not bad, but not really that good. Paladins all the way.

midnight_storm · Post by **midnight_storm** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:50 am

personally i've never played as a bard
i'm a paladin all the time, but not just a paladin
i prefer the calvalier
it really helps with all those dragons, you know
now when it comes to the paladin stronghold compared to the bard stronghold, the paladin stronghold is definitely more difficult
the difference i find is that the bard stronghold is more entertaining and fun (cuz its for a bard), but i think the paladin stronhold is more rewarding

Krusader · Post by **Krusader** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:49 pm

Last time I played BG2 I was gonna take the cavalier kit, but then I remembered how annoying is getting levels sucked by those blasted vampires, so I went with the undead hunter kit instead. There are more vampires than dragons anyway. Now, TOB, that's another story, lotsa dragons.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:57 pm

Guys, I've removed spam. If you're going to contribute, please contribute something substantial to this thread. Anything else might be seen as attempts to do post count inflation, or just spam--and neither belongs, here.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:05 pm

[QUOTE=Opalescence]I've noticed that Paladins appear to be getting the short end of the stick every time. Look at all the horrid restrictions! First, they HAVE to be Lawful Good. Next, they have to STAY Lawfully Good. Third, if they ever STOP doing so, they FALL, losing all abilities! Fourth, they try to be a figher/cleric but fail on all counts; they do NOT have the combat abilities of a fighter NOR the casting ability of a cleric. Fifth, their special abilities CANNOT make up for these losses: Lay on Hands is decent as a healing ability but it's not as though Clerics can't cast healing spells, and disease and fear resistence is useful but not enough of a benefit to counterbalance the drawbacks. Why should I pick Paladin over a dual-classed Figher/Cleric? Even the kits aren't really that much better than the F/C, they give up (usually) turn undead and LoH for abilities that, while interesting, barely make the kit balanced, but do not add any additional power to it!

In a similar vein, why Bards? I don't see anything a Bard can do that a Wizard or Sorceror, or a dualled fighter/wizard, or a dualled rogue/wizard couldn't do better![/QUOTE]

While Paladins maybe doesn't make the best class class-wise, they do have an afwul lot of items that's restricted to their class. I'd say that those items more than compensates for their lack of... things, and makes them one of the best warrior classes in the game.

And I am obviously talking about Carsomyr and the Purifier that gives really awesome magical resistance

Besides, as you're given high wis and cha, it's easy to roll a Paladin with good stats. I got a 100 point Pala once, doubt that would happen with any other character.

Bards are (nowadays, thanks to Astafas) one of my favourite class. They are the only class besides Paladins that can handle Carsomyr and The Purifier with ease. They have good spells as well (as in Stone Skin, Mirror Image, Tenser's, Imp. Haste) and is, while buffed, ridiculous strong

As long as the opponent doesn't wield the staff of cheese or carso with instadispell, ofc :/

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:47 pm

[QUOTE=Elessar-NWN]I took down Adalon 1-on-1 in the Underdark with a Paladin armed with Carsomyr+5 and Drow Plate +5[/QUOTE]
LOL! Nice to see you roleplaying!

ON EDIT: I've always loved the stereotypical "Knight in Shining Armor" and I've loved Paladins ever since your Fighter could become one at level 9 in Basic D&D. The class is a ton of fun to really roleplay, especially outside of CRPGs. They're extremely powerful as well.

I personally think a human Berserker (13)/Cleric will be more powerful than a Paladin, as will a 1/2 Elf Cleric/Ranger. But that still doesn't mean that it isn't fun to play one.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:02 am

Well, I said *one* of the best. Not *the* best. I just find it terribly wrong to claim that they get the short end of the stick every time, as they get the "best" stick in the game, so to speak.

Lady Morgana · Post by **Lady Morgana** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:15 am

Paladins are better in combat than fighters they have much better saveing throws lots of advantages against evil creatures and thier spell casting abilitys are good. plus they get the best weapon in the game and in single combat a paladin will always win against a fighter due to them takeing less damage due to divine grace they can summon angels and they have the best saveing throws in the game.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:53 am

Since when did a paladin become better in combat than a warrior? The warrior gains level faster and can specialize better then a Paladin.

And in single combat, fighters are the ones that really stand a chance against Paladins wielding Carsomyr. Thieves aren't strong enough and casters (including bards) will have their defenses dispelled and not be able to sucessfully cast spells on the Paladin due to the magical resistance.

The drawback with a Carsomyrian Paladin is that it's no good against fighters. Sure, it's still a +5/+6 weapon, but it's really only usefull against casters. A fighter dualwielding FoA + Crom will deal so much more damage than a Paladin, and if he would change weapon to the same, the Fighter should still be victorious thanks to his higher level and specialization.

So unless there's something I've missed... I'm terrible interested in knowing how you possible can say that Paladins are better in combat than Fighters, and how Paladins possibly would be able to stand their ground against a Fighter.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:11 pm

[QUOTE=Thrifalas]Since when did a paladin become better in combat than a warrior? The warrior gains level faster and can specialize better then a Paladin.

And in single combat, fighters are the ones that really stand a chance against Paladins wielding Carsomyr. Thieves aren't strong enough and casters (including bards) will have their defenses dispelled and not be able to sucessfully cast spells on the Paladin due to the magical resistance.

The drawback with a Carsomyrian Paladin is that it's no good against fighters. Sure, it's still a +5/+6 weapon, but it's really only usefull against casters. A fighter dualwielding FoA + Crom will deal so much more damage than a Paladin, and if he would change weapon to the same, the Fighter should still be victorious thanks to his higher level and specialization.

So unless there's something I've missed... I'm terrible interested in knowing how you possible can say that Paladins are better in combat than Fighters, and how Paladins possibly would be able to stand their ground against a Fighter.[/QUOTE]Very true. The difference is that a Paladin, in almost any other situation is more versatile than a Fighter (and a whole lot less boring, IMHO). Besides, if a Fighter has no defenses to Dispel, who's to say that a Paladin won't switch over to using a different weapon, like the Ravager Halberd or the Silver Sword? Also, most Paladins (not Inquisitors) can cast Draw Upon Holy Might, and near the end of SoA, this means many Paladins will be sporting 25's in their physical stats.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:35 am

Not counting that the poor fighter will be facing the paladin with his Devas (thanks to HLA), a palading can heal himself istantly (LoH and/or blessed bracers), and can buff himself (Duhm, prot. from evil, def. harmony, death ward, fire/cold prot. etc.), and can even cast some dangerous spells to the fighter (domination, rigid thinking, poison, holy smite).

Xiryith · Post by **Xiryith** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:10 am

My paladin is a better (righteous) slaughtering machine than I ever managed to make a fighter.

Xiryith · Post by **Xiryith** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:15 am

And lvl33 paladins can easily kill liches with their turn undead ability, and unlike clerics , they can hack the non undead creatures to pieces with some nice buffing spells(wich they can cast themselves).

Srry won't happen again

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:34 am

Xiryith, please post a single post rather than successive ones to convey what you want to say. Thanks.

Lady Morgana · Post by **Lady Morgana** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:41 am

My paladin has beaten loads of fighters in single duals.
paladins get really good defence spells have tons of restistence's and can easily kill even the mightest of fighters. also the best sword in the game is only available to paladins.
I tell you what lets have your fighter against my paladin and I'm sure you'll be eateing your words. and picking up your head

Kenyon · Post by **Kenyon** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:33 am

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]Say what you will about Paladins being annoying, boring to roleplay, etc.- I agree with everything.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for bumping this, but I was browsing through the archives and read this comment. Does anyone agree with this? Personally, I think the Paladin class for my main character is one of the most interesting to roleplay. Why? Because you're a child of the Lord of Murder. Your very essence is the exact opposite of the ideals you hold dear.

I love starting out in BG1 as the noble Paladin without any doubt - but as pieces of the puzzle are put into place, the character becomes more complex, conflicted. It really brings out the BG storyline in a way that, dare I say it, no other class can. Although I realise that, technically, any Neutral Good / Lawful Good character has the same kind of conflict, it isn't as in-your-face as the Paladin. How about the Order? How about your fellow Knights?

I'm a roleplayer, not a powerplayer, so obviously I see the class differently from many others talking about hitpoints and proficiencies. But no one can deny the great amount of drama and conflict this character class provides.

If you want the best of it, play BG1 with the BG1Tutu mod, get the NPC Pack, and specifically try the Dynaheir romance. The conversations regarding your lineage are extremely interesting, especially for the type of character described in this post. Then move on to BG2 and witness one of the coolest roleplaying characters take on the very evil that gave him life, not just because he's a nice guy / girl - but because through some cruel twist of fate, your very profession and lifestyle leaves you no other option.

Ah, the classic battle of the conflicted hero against the malevolent villain - how can one not enjoy the possibilities?