Help needed with SoA Final Battle (Tactics mod, SPOILERS)

[tamenrot]

I defeated all my enemies. The game seemed to be easy because I've reached high levels (wizard slayer 15/thief 28, kensai 13/mage 18, Aerie 16/16). I easily killed Irenicus at Suldanessalar and my soul was dragged to the Hell. I get all the good-path tears of Bhaal... and then faced Irenicus & Co.
What a tough battle!!!
I have loaded and reloaded so many times I can't remember... I used the following strategy to kill some foes:
1. Cast Black Blade of Disaster with the kensai/mage, and cast improved haste with Aerie on him.
2. Cast Time Stop with the kensai/mage
3. While casting, use spell sequencers (3 magic missile) of Aerie and a simulacrum (Aerie) on the Sword of Greed.
4. While the time is stopped, run to Wraith, attack, kai, attack and finish it. Then cast an Abi'Dhalzim or a spell sequencer (3 magic missile) on the Sword of Greed.

When the Time Stop finished, the Wraith and the Sword had dead.
Then I casted a simulacrum with the kensai/mage, and shapechanged the simmy->iron golem. I summoned a Deva with Aerie, too.
I managed to kill either the Dragon or the Beholder... but aaaaalways I was killed at the end.
I don't know what I can do.
When playing the final battle in ToB (no Tactics) I realized that I had to center the attacks on (hidden spoiler) her. Maybe it is my mistake in the current battle, because I'm not facing Irenicus first.
So I have one question and a plea ( )

-question: if I don't kill the Irenicus' friends, will I recover the stolen items?
-plea: help, help, help, help!

[tamenrot]

Fable, how could I edit the title of the post? I wanted to ask for help, not to describe my battle , so I don't know if people will read the post if only sais "SoA final battle" instead of "Help with SoA final battle"

Thanks

[fable]

Got it. Next time, just shoot me a PM (personal message). I'll get a notification when one of those arrive.

[Sytze]

It's been a long time since I actually fought that final battle. It's a good one, though.

First, set all the spiketraps you can near the dragon (you're a WS/Thief, you have spiketraps, right?). Then use the last tear and, when the battle starts, kill all the shadows first. Use Timestop for both Aerie and your K/M and have them buff themselves to the max. Also, make sure you have a few summons for distraction. Devas, Mordekain's Swords, Elementals and Skeleton Warriors come to mind.
The Dragon should be dead when the battle starts ('cause of the traps). Then focus on the Beholder first, Wraith and Sword second. The sword is quite easy to kill with a couple of spells (area spells are useful, since you are able to hurt more enemies than only the sword). Make sure you spread your characters, incase Irenicus comes in and starts casting area and dispelling spells. The best approach would be to, when the battle starts, have Aerie cast Timestop, let her walk to Irenicus and the beholder, and let her summon all the monsters she can there. That way, you have more time to prepare yourself and kill the Wraith and Sword. Timestop and Improved Alacrity are very, very important spells. Forget Black Blade of Disaster.

Make sure you kill Irenicus' allies first (you only get to receive the weapons and items when you kill them) and after that, focus on Irenicus.

I hope that helps, I haven't played the final battle in a while and therefore am unable to give you more precise information. Check the Tactics ReadMe for some more help, if this doesn't work.

Good luck.

[tamenrot]

Thanks, Fable. I'll send you a PM when needed

On the other hand... I have no spike traps I have few skill points in set traps because I don't like enemies to die before fighting them This time that traps would be useful indeed
I'm thinking about shapechanging into a mindflayer while timestopped and try to attack the dragon. I suppose I will need much luck to hit it. Hope that stoneskin doesn't work against the mindflayer "insta-kill"
Unfortunately, Aerie is not able to cast 9-level spells yet

This is a GOOD battle I'm enjoying when trying different strategies to battle these foes!

[Sytze]

You only have three characters, yet you don't have level 9 spells for Aerie? Bummer… That, and the fact that you don't have spike traps, change the battle a lot. In this case, you will have to make sure your own character and the K/M kill the dragon first. It's, as far as I can remember, one heck of an annoying lizard, especially his level drain ability.
While they are taking care of the dragon, have Aerie buffed to the max and keep her summoning monsters. You and the K/M mage will have to work their way from the right to the left (i.e. Dragon, Beholder, Wraith, Sword) and you will have to work fast, for Aerie can not hold on that long.

You might also want to think which item you want back first. If you want that nice tactics katana first, go for the monster that has it in its possession.

How about you try the above mentioned tactics and tell us (me ) how far you get, and where things go wrong. We might come up with better tactics along the way.

[tamenrot]

but... but... but...

(hidden spoilers) But what an end!!! I faced the Irenicus-Slayer, without any weapon, wounded and exhausted. My legs didn't run -maybe because I had no more boots of speed -... and died-.

First part (my tactics):
-Kensai/mage: potion of strenght 22 and buffed -> THACO-6 with the sword of greed (don't remember its name. I achieved it by control necklace-cheating), THACO -8 with SoM and AC -10/-12.
Main spells: 2 timestop, 1 spell immunity, 1 breach (it's worth more than one), 2 summon undead (skeleton warriors), 1 simulacrum (don't needed, indeed), 1 true sight. Ring of Gaxx -> improved haste.

-Aerie: spells: breach, summon undead and skull trap or spell sequencer (3 magic missile), plus buffing spells.

-Wizard slayer/thief (main char): potion of strenght 22 and buffed. Don't know the THACO nor the AC. Brandished the Celestial Fury (5 stars).

Strategy:
Before calling Irenicus: put two traps (this is cool ) to kill the shadows (oh dear) that are summoned when Irenicus appears. Two traps more near the corridor of the dragon.
Casted 2 skeleton warriors and sent them to the corridor of the beholder.
Casted spell immunity->necromancy (I casted it with the simmulacrum too. This spell gave him immunity against level draining, I think).
All the buffs casted before calling Irenicus.

After the battle begins:
All the characters run to the dragon, while the skeletons slowed down the beholder. As soon I had the dragon ("injured") in sight, casted a breach (Aerie) and a timestop. While in timestop, the kensai run to the dragon and blowed him a bit, used the Ring of Gaxx's improved haste, blowed again, used kai (I didn't casted the spells one after the other to avoid the delay between spells) and finished the dragon. I think the breach did not its work, because the first blows did no damage. Now the kensai had 25 strenght (because of the sword). I used the remaining timestop to cast a skull trap on the Sword of Greed, which was coming.
The skull trap left the Sword "injured", and Aerie finished it with the spell sequencer (3mm).
The kensai casted the second timestop, run to the Wraith of Wrath and finished him using the same tactic as that against the dragon.
Aerie casted a Deva (an skeleton warrior could have done the same) that maintained Irenicus amused for a while.
The kensai and the main run to the beholder (it was near the stairs, stopped by an skeleton), and put it to the end easily (the kensai had 45% of magic resistance, and the wizard slayer broke the beholder spell casting).

To finish Irenicus the kensai casted a true sight and 3 breach (one at each moment Irenicus casted protection against magical weapons) and hit him helped by the main character.

And then... (hidden spoiler) I found myself alone, naked and facing the Slayer... and was slew. I wonder... I'm not hasted -the Slayer is. I'm disarmed-the Slayer is not. So it's not worth to run -I run, in fact -. So where's the trick? Next time I'll try to punch the Slayer

[Sytze]

Spoilers

[QUOTE=tamenrot]the Irenicus-Slayer, without any weapon, wounded and exhausted. My legs didn't run -maybe because I had no more boots of speed -... and died-.

And then... (hidden spoiler) I found myself alone, naked and facing the Slayer... and was slew. I wonder... I'm not hasted -the Slayer is. I'm disarmed-the Slayer is not. So it's not worth to run -I run, in fact -. So where's the trick? Next time I'll try to punch the Slayer [/QUOTE]
Nice job with Irenicus' allies.

Trust me, though, from now it will become easier. I found the battle against the Slayer very easy, especially since your equipment lies right in front of you -or, at least, near you. The only thing you can't equip is your armor, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you have a ranged weapon equiped. Boots of Speed and a longbow will do the job for you.

[tamenrot]

I was so astonished that didn't realize that my equipment was near me, hahahahaha
Mmm... I found the battle against the dragon and the wraith (if I can call "battle" to hit them while they are timestopped ) a bit cheesy... weeeell... never mind

By the way, I tried a tactic using Spell Immunity and want to know your opinion
SI-> necromancy: does it really protect from level draining?
SI-> conjuration: could it protect from summoned creatures?? (I casted it, but didn't protect me from any of the Irenicus friends... but I don't know if they are strictly summoned).

[Sytze]

[QUOTE=tamenrot]By the way, I tried a tactic using Spell Immunity and want to know your opinion
SI-> necromancy: does it really protect from level draining?
SI-> conjuration: could it protect from summoned creatures?? (I casted it, but didn't protect me from any of the Irenicus friends... but I don't know if they are strictly summoned).[/QUOTE]
About SI: Necromancy, I'm not sure. I can't try it out now, but if I should guess, then I'd say yes, it protects you against level drain. It could also depend on the kind of level drain that's being tossed your way, though. A vampire has a different kind of level drain than the mage spell, or the dragon breath, I think.
SI: Conjuration, however, does not protect you against summons. Would be a very nice feature, but it does not work that way. Just let your mage memorise Death Spell and you're pretty safe anyway.

[Luis Antonio]

My tactic to destroy this group: (with hidden spoilers, asked by Tamenrot)

First, run to the dragon. I had Nalia cast limited wish, and Keldorn talked to the genie. I had left this spell to this moment, I knew it would be really usefull. So, time stops, I whirlwind and slay the dragon. Notice that slaying the dragon is themost important step, because his wing flipping will drive you mad and disrupt anything you try to cast, leaving you frustrated no matter what. Ok, time stops run out, he takes just one more beating and goes down. I receive an item, but ok, I dont use it. Next.

Everyone would try to beat the beholder, but the wraith of fear was trying to get to Nalia, and I couldnt allow it. So, I had all of my fighters except Keldy improved whirlwind and hit him till he dies. Viconia had to cast restoration - they had been drained of life, and potions were not of real use here, even though my F/D was using potions of greater healing. Wraith of wrath goes down. There's the sword and the beholder. I run for the beholder with my frontliners, and Nalia casts magic missile on the sword.

When I arrive around the beholder he's sucking my constitution dramatically. Nalia casts time stop, the sword the beholder and irenicus are really close to each other. I cast improved alacrity. Ninth level spells are over. Then I cast emotion two times, magic missile two times on the sword, then two horrid wiltings that will hurt all of them. Before the time stop wearing out I start to cast another horrid wilting. Time stops wears off. Fighters whack mercylessly the beholder, who has a spell disrupted when the clouds arise. Sword destroyed. Keldorn hits the beholder again and he's killed.

Irenicus was the big deal. He must be left to the end, because otherwise your party is doomed. With the proper setup he's not hard. Disrupt his spells and whirlwind. He's gonna drop dead quickly when his protections are gone, specially with carsormyr bashing him.

The second figth is really stupid - have your character become the slayer and kill irenicus. If you're a monk you can do that even easier.

The third fight proven my strategy was not good - Irenicus returns with a big number of spells, completely invulnerable, except for the fact that he switches invulnerabilities. Ok, but that'd be good to know before I've sent all my spells on his first form. Nalia is a sitting duck and her staff of magi powers cant dispell Irenicus magics. What to do? I dont know if that helped, since he hasnt turned green but after I've used a mindflayer control circlet on him he stopped casting some of his invulnerabilities - and then he fell down. Dispell magic and wand of breaching wouldnt work on him.

Its not easy, its hard as hell. I love this fight, even though it always makes me reload countless times. The first row of fighters, though, its the worst part of this whole vendetta.

[tamenrot]

uh oh...

Um, I thought that there was ONLY two fights. Not three I think that it is spoilerish and the moderator Luis Antonio should burn in flames (remember that I myself hid the "spoilers" about the second fight ).
Never mind, I forgive you

Oh gods, a third fight... that reminds me of (hidden spoilers hehehe), the ToB final battle. I think the next time I played this battle against Irenicus will say: "But you'll never die?!", hahahhhaha

[Luis Antonio]

My bad. But there's a spoilers in the thread title, anyway.

And dont worry, you'll have the option to say something like that

[tamenrot]

Irenicus was defeated, but one of my friends was slain

After the touhg battle against the Dragon, the Wraith, the Sword, the Beholder and the very Irenicus, to kill the Slayer was a hard try. I think a potion of haste could be dropped "strategically" in the corridor (this cheese would stink up, wouldn't it? ).
But no, I didn't that. I had to transform into another Slayer, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to reach the equipment (thad had been dropped near the Hell door) before being killed. Once I re-equip, the combat was easy and fast.
After that (I had to say twice "but why don't you simply die? ), the teleporting Irenicus reminded me of the Benny Hill chapters -if someone more reminds of him - . I had him occupied with a Planetar, while I hit him with the wizard slayer (by the way, with a fire resistance >100% , very useful -and healing - against his fire shield). Fighting that way started some chained spell casting failures that finally allowed me to finish him.
But Aerie had died. I had resurrected her with the planetar, but didn't take on mind that she will be raised next to the avatar... so as soon she was raised, she was definitely killed by Irenicus (her face dissapeared from the screen).
So Irenicus was given his reward, but a Good priest gave her life.

(so I will reload the game. I don't really need Aerie, the other two characters are strong enough... but I like her to be in the group ).

By the way, I had commented that a breach spell on the dragon could be not needed, but today realized that if I don't cast a breach, my weapons are innefective against him all along the timestop

[Sytze]

[QUOTE=tamenrot]By the way, I had commented that a breach spell on the dragon could be not needed, but today realized that if I don't cast a breach, my weapons are innefective against him all along the timestop [/QUOTE]
It's a dragon, you have tactics installed. What do you expect?

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=Sytze]It's a dragon, you have tactics installed. What do you expect? [/QUOTE]

Hehe he thinks Wes Weimer has sanity

@Tamenrot: If you have keldy or the staff of magi, his protections (only in the dragon on the final battle) may be disrupted by a dispell magic. Easy as that. Carsormir also helps.

[tamenrot]

The kensai/mage wielded the Staff of the Magi, and I used it against the dragon but didn't worked Kensi (the kensai) always said "my weapon doesn't work!", so I had to suppose the dragon had a "protection against magical weapons" spell or intrinsic ability wich a breach could disrupt
What I don't understand is why, after breached, a few hits were needed before starting to hurt the dragon, as if the dragon was protected by a second stoneskin that hadn't been removed

And as a comment about Tactics mod, I think that developers (kindly developers ) could add a few summons to the third Irenicus. When the characters have high magic resistance (40 and 25-75% wielding Carsomyr-) and saves the Irenicus' display of spellcasting is rather unuseful, so some physical combat could add a little more action to that good end. I think the first battle is the toughest, the second battle is easy -but impressive . Appearing naked is cool! -, and the third one is a bit annoying because it only consist of chasing Irenicus all along the screen, when his spells are innefective
Take into account that these are suggestions, not complaints, because the mod improves very, very much the original game Hurray for the new dialogues, too!!

[Luis Antonio]

The staff of magi and the carsy +6 need a fix to receive the same dispell hability than the carsy +5, have you installed that, Tamenrot?

[tamenrot]

reporting an annoying bug...

Luis Antonio, I only installed the official patch, not the baldurdash (I'm a bit lazy, and if the things work, why patch? ). But I remember that the dispel magic is a relative percentage, isn't it? So dispelling on a dragon or Irenicus himself can be very difficult, or am I wrong?
All the way, I managed to finish that battle (I don't know how many times had to reload ). I had to turn off the volume controls during the dialogue with Irenicus, because I was getting crazy I think I could repeat the dialogue by heart

The bug is the following:
In the first battle, just after killing Irenicus, I paused the game (I wanted to take the cloak of reflection before the next battle begin) and it crashed. It entered a music loop and the pc got freezed (Alt+Ctrl+Supr didn't worked, the keyboard was off). It happened me twice (the third time I didn't paused, obviously ).
Another thing that happened was that sometimes Irenicus didn't drop the cloak of reflection. One of that times I finished the game, and decided that getting the cloak wasn't worth if I had to bear the dialogues again