Advice to a Fledgling DM

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:26 am

So, I've decided to take up the coveted Wizard's hat, and DM one of the next games for my roleplaying group. I've decided to use the Dragonlance campaign setting.

I've already done some basic planning (the game is still a couple months from starting), such as rough starting, and I'll be working on a middle and eventual ending (all loose enough to allow for player decisions). What I'm finding myself becoming stuck on is side quests.

I'd like to avoid typical fed-ex quests, unless I really become stuck, so I'm submitting myself to the whims of those on the forum. Any suggestions for compelling side-quests to keep things interesting inbetween plot development?

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:35 am

well, as a DM of mine once said, "A DM with out any players, is playing with him self." so just make it fun i guess, send them on a side quest and someone ends up finding, "The pouch of limitless twinkies". or other gag prizes. thats all i have to say i guess lol. i just started DMing aswell. lol

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:55 am

I'm trying to rebalance my game now. I gave my players weapons too powerful, too early in my DL game.

Could you give me an idea of your thoughts as of now? Since I'm familiar with the setting I may be able to give you some new lines of thought on it.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:56 am

My suggestion would be to have an idea behind every side quest.

I'm working on dilemma's myself. Think along the lines of players having to choose between a great weapon or saving a number of villagers (from the top of my head as I don't want to give an example of my campain, they sometimes visit this forum).
A while back a devil forced us to kill an entire village and my charactres went along for the ride, only to try and save the villagers when it all started... and thus taking on a devil of about CR 18 as level 7 characters... one of my characters died, but it was cool though.

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:15 am

Just off the top of my head, you could have the party run into a skirmish between some Knights of Solamnia and bandits/goblins/draconians/whatever. The bad guys aren't just attacking to kill, though; they could steal something/someone and escape. The knights can't pursue immediately because they need to tend to their wounded, so they ask the PCs to retrieve whatever/whomever was taken. This would allow for a dungeon-esque side-quest, as the PCs could track the bad guys back to some kind of lair, fort, or general hideout, and depending on how organized the bad guys are, there could be wilderness encounters with sentries and such.

And then you'd have to figure out why the theft/kidnapping took place to begin with. Maybe it was a holy relic with healing abilities that was taken, and the bad guys aren't really bad at all, but simply can't afford to pay a cleric to heal their dying father/mother/friend/goat. Or maybe the knights were escorting some kind of dignitary or the relative of one, and the bad guys want to use him as a bargaining chip for some kind of political decision, like less taxes, or the construction of better irrigation for fields, or something. If your party isn't the type to just kill everything on sight, this would allow for another side-quest or two to take place, as the subdued "bad guys" would have the chance to explain their plight.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:15 am

Well, to answer Captain Morgan over here, I'm setting it during the War of the Lance, as I'm most familar with that time period of Dragonlance. Basically, the party are part of a group of mercenaries, currently residing in Palanthas (before the Council of Whitestone, so no Dragonlances or good Dragons yet). As it is right now, the direction I'm taking it, in terms of the main plot points, is that I'm setting up three possible paths, one for Good, Evil and Neutral, and all of which will eventually lead them outside of the city.

The part I'm having trouble with, is the busy work inbetween. Minor side quests and such. Things will probabaly come together as I create more NPC's for them to interact with, but having an idea on what sort of side-quests could also give me an idea on what sort of NPC's to create (both just in name, and in terms of in character sheets.)

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:19 pm

[QUOTE=Magrus]I'm trying to rebalance my game now. I gave my players weapons too powerful, too early in my DL game.

Could you give me an idea of your thoughts as of now? Since I'm familiar with the setting I may be able to give you some new lines of thought on it.

[/QUOTE]
I think those situations are part of the reason TSR created Rust Monster

. Just send your players into some dungeon and let them face one or two of them

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:29 pm

[QUOTE=Aegis]The part I'm having trouble with, is the busy work inbetween. Minor side quests and such. Things will probabaly come together as I create more NPC's for them to interact with, but having an idea on what sort of side-quests could also give me an idea on what sort of NPC's to create (both just in name, and in terms of in character sheets.)[/QUOTE]

You could start out with some minor quests in the begining, say a merchant want the characters to get him a delivery of wares on the other side of town or something.

And when they get the "feeling" with the city/area you can givet them quests that are a little more demaning.

Oskatat · Post by **Oskatat** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:02 pm

[QUOTE=Ripe]I think those situations are part of the reason TSR created Rust Monster

. Just send your players into some dungeon and let them face one or two of them

[/QUOTE]

hush now, its not your item that going away. They're made from some kind of stone anyway, so tunneler or something should be better

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:54 pm

[QUOTE=Ripe]I think those situations are part of the reason TSR created Rust Monster

. Just send your players into some dungeon and let them face one or two of them

[/QUOTE]

*grins* Oskatat has a point, they're made from a magic type of stone I incorporated into my campaign. I'm keeping it...but definately not for 8th level characters.

I can fix that though, it's called big, big, BIG, scary dragon.

I decided to scrap the campaign and start a new one. I'll have fun with the ending.

[QUOTE=Aegis]The part I'm having trouble with, is the busy work inbetween. Minor side quests and such. Things will probabaly come together as I create more NPC's for them to interact with, but having an idea on what sort of side-quests could also give me an idea on what sort of NPC's to create (both just in name, and in terms of in character sheets.)[/QUOTE]

I'm stuck with this too.

I'm more the type to have an idea of enemies, NPC's and attitudes and dump the characters in a spot and give them options. Whatever they do, I react to.

With your setting however, it cuts a lot of the "high end" stuff out of the campaign. I'd say give them "crisis" situations with raiders perhaps? Bands on the move to Nereka to prepare for the upcoming war? A mercenary unit of 30 people could take over a town easily. Two or three moving out to head to join one could raid a farmhouse and cause all sorts of nastiness with the people inside.

I'll come back with more ideas, have to play the Greyhawk Campaign.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:01 am

Well I've ditched my old campaign and started a new one on Siberys' board. Figure I can discuss the basics as a possible thing for your's as there's not a whole lot to tell yet.

I've decided to go with Ice Wall as the setting. Each character has their own background, and reason for being there. I have 4 hostile factions, 1 friendly and 1 neutral faction. Whichever they decide to do will end up making them encounter those factions at some point.

The little backgrounds the player's gave me, their quirks and interests they put in for the character's will allow them to decide their own mini-quests. They've tossed me quite a few shiny nuggets of wholesome goodness to work off of I have to say. Especially considering the area they are in. Everything is so much more important there. Even the little things.

Perhaps if you're players decide to be the lawful good type, you could make them hunt down a "robin hood" esque character. More of a moral dillema type deal for them. What do they do with a chaotic good "criminal". He is obviously doing good deeds, but he is breaking the law, and therefore must be subject to it. They set out and go after him, and realize just how much good he is dong and come into a moral's conflict.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:23 am

Knowing my group, they'll probably end up Chaotic neutral

Though, you've reminded me of a valuable little tidbit I'm still lacking, which is character backgrounds for the players. Once I get those, I can start incorporating more personalized touches.

Currently, my planning is starting them in Palanthas, during the middle of the War of the Lance, without the good dragons having returned yet. I intend to put them right smack dab in the middle of some of the major conflicts, which should be fun.

AarronIkarus · Post by **AarronIkarus** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:02 am

[QUOTE=Aegis]
The part I'm having trouble with, is the busy work inbetween. Minor side quests and such. Things will probabaly come together as I create more NPC's for them to interact with, but having an idea on what sort of side-quests could also give me an idea on what sort of NPC's to create (both just in name, and in terms of in character sheets.)[/QUOTE]

Hmmm...Dragonlance....Kender....sounds like an 'accident' waiting to happen. Perhaps a benefactor needs to 'acquire' something, or the rogue in the party 'found' something somebody wants back.

[QUOTE=Magrus]*grins* Oskatat has a point, they're made from a magic type of stone I incorporated into my campaign. I'm keeping it...but definately not for 8th level characters.

I can fix that though, it's called big, big, BIG, scary dragon. I decided to scrap the campaign and start a new one. I'll have fun with the ending. [/QUOTE]

Before you give up on the campaign, what about a VERY crafty thief. They're pretty good at relieving a character of unbalancing items.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:50 am

Before you give up on the campaign, what about a VERY crafty thief. They're pretty good at relieving a character of unbalancing items.

I thought about different ways to remove them from the characters and I could. I just decided to rewrite the whole thing and start over. I had made some changes to the way the classes worked since they were all mages, I did upped the power of the mages and just altered a lot of stuff. It really didn't work out too well at all.

They've got new characters, and If the third player from the original game follows to that other forum with this one, I'll have an extra player, plus possibly 2 more. It works for me.

@Aegis, Palanthas and at that time hmm? Dalamar had been cast out of Silvensti by the time the "Heroes of the Lance" started their adventures. He wandered around for quite some time searching for magic. If you've got a mage in your party, could be a good excuse for a younger, less powerful Dalamar the Dark to "pop" into play.

If they are chaotic neutral, it might end up causing them to run into some Solmanic knights who have a problem with their actions. It could be a flip-side of my lawful good thought up above. The selfish vigilantes meet the law as they come into town, or out on the road.

Math Mannaman · Post by **Math Mannaman** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:48 pm

One thing I often do for side treks in a on-going campaign is to bring back NPC’s that the party has pissed off in previous adventures. There are lots of things you can do with that concept, from assignation attempts, or burglaries trying retrieve items, or even spying by organizations who have had a hand a post adventure.

Something ive been doing in my game lately is a treasure hunt. This is started as a small innocent hook I through into an encounter, with some clues for a large treasure somewhere. Through this they party will have to solve some puzzlers-riddles, and gather more clues to eventually find the treasure – which is supposed to take a long time. Something they can work on in-between adventures – so they always have a few goals in any game session. This also allow's me to wor5k on it bits a time....

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:09 pm

If it has been said, I have to agree. If not, then here goes.

Whenever doing side quests, usually a percentage of them have to do with the storyline. Look at morrowind here for a sec. At the beginning, you were told to find guilds and do quests for them, which was a quest of the story line. Just an example, not to get off track.

I'd implement an infamous guild or organization that has to do with the story line -somewhat-, but not completly. At the moment, my campaign consists of a main story line of bringing peace to the dragons of the earth and one of the guilds, The blackwinters, is hampering that in someway partially. Not too big, but something for the Pc's to -want- to deal with, but not completly top priority. See what I mean?

Again, just some examples to base things off of.

Oskatat · Post by **Oskatat** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:38 am

For rogues, always have a few pick and place houses ready for if he decides on a nightly adventure.
If they are activly looking for side quests, make a sort of anouncement board at a townhall, offering all kind of odd jobs for the better trained. guarding caravans, ridding a forrest of worgs, things like that. After a while you get a better idea what they like and you can fine tune the campaign itself to make that more interesting.

Many players can find ways to stop your main quest though.
(prophecy: "There is a sword waiting for your hand at the gate of darkness. The moment you touch it, the evil long slumbering will awake and unfold its plans." => "I put a geas on myself never to get near the sword, so I wont wake the evil."