Should rap be considered music? Yes, or no and why??

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:36 am

In response to a question raised in the ever popular Heathen Citadel, should rap be considered music? This thread isn't meant to be an all-out butchering of other member's musical taste, as that is against forum rules, but to discover once and for all what is required for something to be considered music and whether rap fits into that category. I ask as a neutral member that others' ideas and opinions be considered before rebuttal, and that all postings avoid unnecessary spam which is indeed a great deal of fun, but more suitable for a variety of other threads here at SYM.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:01 pm

Rap (I include hip hop) is a type of music and a way of life for some people. I wasn't really aware of it myself until I moved to Harlem, but the truth is that some people in my neighborhood live and breathe rap in the same way others do gospel or classical music.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:07 pm

No. I don't like it, a Majority of it has absolutly no point. They come up with the most Ridiculous things and names. I just think that rap should die forever. Even though people need a way to express them selves, they should do so in a manner that at least makes sence.

giles337 · Post by **giles337** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:14 pm

Although I concede that there IS a lot of rap, that can be pretty well summed up by adding a letter C before it (

) There is also a lot of stuff out there, that is, In my opinion, exceedingly clever, both lyrically, and in rhyming. And while there are a lot of manafactured artists with no musical talent whatsoever, there is also a significant proportion of bands, who simply choose to portray there message through rapping, yes still all play there respective instruments.

To quote Jurrasic Five's, World Of Entertainment:

You see a rapper is a kid that brags and acts big
A rhymer is a someone that can handle his biz

Depsite the b@stardisation of english in the last line, I think it carries a fair point. There are "rappers" and there are musicians that rap.

And of course, if someone chooses to express themselves to whatever hint of a tune they choose, and wish to market it as music, and if people BUY it as music, and listen to it for entertainment, then, it is, I consider, worthy of the title; Music.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:17 pm

Why should it not be considered music is the question?

Now I don't like much of it personally - but I still don't see why it shoudn't be considered music, afterall - who is to decide what is something as vauge and abstract as music to begin with?

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:43 pm

I agree w/Xandax. Isn't asking if Rap is Music a little like asking if Faulkner made Literature or if Picasso made Art? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't music, right?

giles337 · Post by **giles337** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:30 pm

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]I agree w/Xandax. Isn't asking if Rap is Music a little like asking if Faulkner made Literature or if Picasso made Art? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't music, right?[/QUOTE]

A very good point. Infact, it reminds me of a time, when a friend of mine walked into the tate modern, looked at a picasso (oblivious of the artist) and said
"Whoever painted that is a <snip>head"

The fact that he didn't like it, didn't make it any less of a (very likelily) multi-million pound piece of art.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:33 pm

Sometimes I don't understand art. Sometimes I might not even think a particular piece of modern art is art (ie- a single dot on a canvas). However, modern art is art. By the same token, Rap is music. It encorporates rythyms, lyrics, instruments, vocals... I don't know what else could make it any more musical.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:14 pm

Darth Zenemij wrote:No. I don't like it, a Majority of it has absolutly no point. They come up with the most Ridiculous things and names.

What is defined as Music, Art or Literature has varied over time and culture, but a set of common characteristics are generally agreed on among experts. Whether a person likes or dislikes the Music or Art in question is not one of them.

Xandax]who is to decide what is something as vauge and abstract as music to begin with?[/quote] When I studied music wrote:Sometimes I don't understand art. Sometimes I might not even think a particular piece of modern art is art (ie- a single dot on a canvas).

When I was in art school (yes, I had other interests before I started science seriously) and was quite arty myself, I used to define art like this: The artist arrange a structure of materials (sound, words, stone, colour, clay, anything) consciously in order to communicate with a viewer, and "art" is the product of this communication between creator and beholder.

However, then we can discuss the value and the quality or music or art, but that's another topic.

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:21 pm

[QUOTE=Erenor]Should rap be concidered music?[/QUOTE]
I'll rephrase that for you; Does a bear crap in the woods?
That's an offensive question, concidering I may or may not have African American heritage because I'm Italian and I happen to also have an eclectic group of friends.

Thank you for hearing the voice.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:29 pm

Okay, I'll point the obvious out; @Athena: does one's heritage have anything to do necessarily with rap? Social/economic class may be a better indicator...

(I know someone's going to make a "House of Pain" joke here soon...)

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:34 pm

Well I know plenty of dj's and people that freestyle. Why wouldn't you concider it? It is what it is.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:36 pm

I say yes. It may not be my type of music, but it definitely is for plenty of other people.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:37 pm

Money has nothing to do with it. The rich boys in the town I spent my years from 11-20 all went "Yo-yo-yo" and had their pants falling off and thought they were g-d out..what.

It's a music, and depending on who you talk to, a style. It's "cool" to do up the whole ganster image. I'm not into ganster rap. My brother's found some great underground rap and I like that. I actually like Eminem once I took the time to listen to what he had to say. He's brutally honest, unafraid to say what he has to say and does so without hesitation. I can respect him for that.

I'm POSITIVE a lot of people can say the same kind of things about metal. I can't stand a lot of metal where you can't understand what the person's screaming. There is absolutely no point in writing lyrics if it all comes out like a brick stuck in a woodchipper over a PA.

Music is simply planned sound with melody and rhythm. A lot of what people consider music lack both of those, I disqualify that as music. However, I've heard GOOD rap, and even though I cannot stand a majority of the genre I can enjoy those groups.

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:46 pm

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]Okay, I'll point the obvious out; @Athena: does one's heritage have anything to do necessarily with rap? Social/economic class may be a better indicator...

(I know someone's going to make a "House of Pain" joke here soon...)[/QUOTE]

I was merely pointing out that African Americans were the first established rappers, thank you. Which leads me back to my question; does a bear crap in the woods?
[QUOTE=Magrus]Music is simply planned sound with melody and rhythm.[/QUOTE]
rap falls into that category I will not discuss this any further.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:50 pm

[QUOTE=Athena]I was merely pointing out that African Americans were the first established rappers, thank you. Which leads me back to my question; does a bear crap in the woods?[/QUOTE]
I agree, and yes it does. There's Rap music, and there is also a culture that comes with it. I know it's one and the same here in Harlem, but it isn't necessarily that way in other places (like rappers abroad). I still say rap is music.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:50 pm

rap falls into that category I will not discuss this any further.

Did I say it didn't at any point in my posts?

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:52 pm

I think that Rap is music, but only to a certain Extent. Rap has a lot of profain language, putting woman down, drugs, alchohal etc etc... But Some of it has almost no piont to it, like if a rapper has allready said that they live in a ghetto paradise, than another doens't need to point out that they do to, or anything like that.

Athena · Post by **Athena** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:02 pm

Dude, that's not the point.

Lyrics are lyrics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:13 pm

[QUOTE=Athena]Dude, that's not the point.

Lyrics are lyrics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Not when they have absolutly no point, and when you can't hear them! Thats all what modern rap has turned into.

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Should rap be considered music? Yes, or no and why??