Bombs in London

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:45 am

[QUOTE=Georgi]Don't get me started on how Bush ought to have a better grasp of rhetoric than to talk about the terrorist "folks" - he did the same after 9/11. I don't really find it appropriate - ok, so it's a colloquial word for "people", but world leaders ought to know when to speak in more formal terms.

[/QUOTE]

Bush's core supporters are rural, anti-intellectual, evangelical, poorly educated (whether at school or self-), and believe decisions in life should be made on the basis of emotions. Now, ask yourself: whom do you think Bush plays to when he goes anywhere in the world and speaks to media, using the phrase "terrorist folks"?

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:37 am

[QUOTE=Georgi]Yeah, Sleepy is fine too. He doesn't work in central London, so he was nowhere near the affected area.[/QUOTE]Heh. Based on my finely honed sense of geography, I have always imagined London to be a relatively small place, with Big Ben and the Thames to the south, the dirty part where Oliver Twist lives to the north, Stonehenge to the west, and of course the East Enders to the east. The Underground ties it all together underneath, and Dr. Who ties it all together in a more abstract way.

I'm glad Sleepy is OK.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:50 pm

I've read that the Underground bombs went off eithin 50 seconds of each other which would suggest remote detontation(sp?) to me, rather than suicide bombings and Tony Blair commended Londoners saying that they were "extraordinary" and that we will not be "terrorised by terror"

.

I think the Muslim Council's Secretary General has made a good response to this tragedy:

What we need to be aware is the terrorists, these evil people who have carried out this series of explosions in London, want to demoralise us as a nation and divide us as a people. All of us must unite in helping the police to hunt these murderers down.

I think, yesterday, we celebrated as Londoners the euphoria that our great city had secured the Olympic Games.

Today, we watch aghast as we witness a series of brutal attacks upon our capital city. I think we were together in our celebrations and we must remain together in our time of crisis.

I think the latest figures are 50+ dead and 700 injured.

green lantern · Post by **green lantern** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:58 pm

[QUOTE=fable]Bush's core supporters are rural, anti-intellectual, evangelical, poorly educated (whether at school or self-), and believe decisions in life should be made on the basis of emotions. Now, ask yourself: whom do you think Bush plays to when he goes anywhere in the world and speaks to media, using the phrase "terrorist folks"?[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Bush may be a farmboy, but I have no doubts that he is "able" to speak in more formal terms, and that he does so more often that not off-screen. It's all about sex... erm, voter appeal, I mean.

The main thing that scares me about the whole current situation is the fact that you know Denmark and Italy are next, and there isn't anything to be done about it. All we can do is wait and pray that when it does happen, minimum casualties will be inflicted. That does indeed make you feel helpless, doesn't it?

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:55 pm

I didn't think Denmark was as much a target as some other countries. Although I don't know what level of involvement Denmark has had in Iraq.
In fact I am slightly surprised nothing has happened near Brussels so far, being an important EU link. Not that I wish to encourage anyone. Really.

This is so depressing, isn't it?

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:25 pm

[QUOTE=Ravager]In fact I am slightly surprised nothing has happened near Brussels so far, being an important EU link. Not that I wish to encourage anyone. Really.[/QUOTE]

Not to forget the NATO headquarters & SHAPE. But Belgium as country has had a rather anti-war stance.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:57 am

[QUOTE=Ravager]I didn't think Denmark was as much a target as some other countries. Although I don't know what level of involvement Denmark has had in Iraq.
In fact I am slightly surprised nothing has happened near Brussels so far, being an important EU link. Not that I wish to encourage anyone. Really.

This is so depressing, isn't it?

[/QUOTE]

We have some soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan and have had since the war.
Denmark has been threatened before, but the "group" (if it was legit) mentioned Norway instead of us- but they haven't been involved at all, so was logical that it was Denmark they intended to say.
Denmark has always been very active with viewing soliders per inhabitants in such areas.

So it is very possible that we'll get hit by something as well - eventhough I doubt it would have any effect at all on the policy our government is running in this issues, and neither should it in my view.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:57 pm

[QUOTE=green lantern]Exactly.

Bush may be a farmboy, but I have no doubts that he is "able" to speak in more formal terms, and that he does so more often that not off-screen. It's all about sex... erm, voter appeal, I mean.[/quote]

Quite so. And Bush after all graduated from Yale, then attended the full 2-year graduation program at the Harvard Business School. You don't do either if you can't think clearly and form sentences that adequately mirror these thoughts. But you can choose to appear like a good ole boy, if you want to seem like one of your voters, as opposed to them there intellectuals who attend college and probably like socialism and terrorists.

The main thing that scares me about the whole current situation is the fact that you know Denmark and Italy are next, and there isn't anything to be done about it. All we can do is wait and pray that when it does happen, minimum casualties will be inflicted. That does indeed make you feel helpless, doesn't it?

I think a terrorist lives to instill terror, and to paralyze a certain society--for whatever reason, good or bad. In this case, I think the British did the right thing: they want on with their lives, just as the citizens of NYC did after 9/11. They proved the terrorists wrong. My main concern is that this horrific act will cause a backlash against foreigners in Western Europe and the US, as well as become justification for the loss of personal freedoms, such as Bush and his pet Congress have done in the US. And I'm afraid the strident voices of some warped individuals, insisting that supposedly endless US and UK crimes against humanity somehow provide justification for these kind of sick massacres, aren't going to help any, either.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:54 pm

Thanks folks for your grief, I hope this all ends soon, I hate curant events right now. I don't really know what they are either, but I know I wish I did. But I love all folks at this forum, so here, I hopes we make are gaming scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Wishs to those who suffured and those who held there place.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:00 pm

My deepest concern for those damaged in anyway.

green lantern · Post by **green lantern** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:53 am

[QUOTE=fable]I think a terrorist lives to instill terror, and to paralyze a certain society--for whatever reason, good or bad. In this case, I think the British did the right thing: they want on with their lives, just as the citizens of NYC did after 9/11. They proved the terrorists wrong.[/QUOTE]

Still, it's not like "the terrorists" (if we just for one second pretend that all terrorists are alike) have got some sort of "fear-o-meter" from which they judge the amount of fear instilled every month. "Well chums, charts show a massive drop on the terror scales since last month, so what we need to do is give prolly the British or those yankee scum a serious scare to repair the loss. Now go out there and scare the doo-hickey outta them, lads!"

So even if the people aren't good sports and get really scared, I don't think the terrorists will back down so easily.

Greetings @everyone, by the way.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:10 am

You don't need a fear-o-meter to tell when a bombing does maximum damage at instilling fear. All you need is a radio or television--or a visit to the general area.

If you see that all the nearby businesses are closed, or that the government is paralyzed, you've made all the impact you need. From a terrorists' perspective, the Iran Hostage situation was the perfect terrorist success. It actually forced the downfall of a US government. The fact that this particular government was probably the most friendly to Arab interests that had yet appeared in the US meant nothing to the terrorists, of course, who would just as soon see somebody like Shrub or Reagan at the helm:a much less sympathetic, intelligent figure to recruit the troops with.

But in any case, I wasn't commenting upon such attacks from the aspect of the question, "Will the terrorists stop?" but from "Did the Londoners show that they weren't going to give the terrorists the thing they most want?" From the latter perspective, the Londoners were very successful.

green lantern · Post by **green lantern** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:22 am

[QUOTE=fable]But in any case, I wasn't commenting upon such attacks from the aspect of the question, "Will the terrorists stop?" but from "Did the Londoners show that they weren't going to give the terrorists the thing they most want?"[/QUOTE]

Oh, ok then. Well in that case, I'm sure that everyone agrees that the Londoners did not. It's rather amazing, I think, how quickly the Brits seemed to "accept" (the right word is somewhere in the back of my brain) what happened.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how Blair seems to do best during hardship?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:35 am

[QUOTE=green lantern]Oh, ok then. Well in that case, I'm sure that everyone agrees that the Londoners did not. It's rather amazing, I think, how quickly the Brits seemed to "accept" (the right word is somewhere in the back of my brain) what happened.[/quote]

I think it's part of the culture, a belief in the ritual of daily tasks to keep the unnerving fear at bay. The Brits did it during WWII and the German blitzes, and showed enormous courage for doing so. Several artists of various disciplines even dedicated their services to weekly live performances in cities under threat of bombardment, to keep morale up.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how Blair seems to do best during hardship?

In this, I tend to agree with those who felt Blair looked pretty bad. I think his response was only better than that of Bush's at the same summit, but then, I happen to think a cheesecloth would sound better than Bush.

green lantern · Post by **green lantern** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:43 am

[QUOTE=fable]...but then, I happen to think a cheesecloth would sound better than Bush.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure I'd agree, if only I knew what a cheesecloth was. Wait, let me guess, a cloth that... covers cheese? That's so... cheesy (yes, I do entertain myself).
Not that it matters really, but I'm no supporter of either Bush or Blair (or Danish Minister of State Anders Fogh Rasmussen). Just wanted to clear things up.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:13 am

Do Not Go to London--Official Order by US military force in UK

While Bush is telling people we must not be defeated by act of terror, the US military forces ordered (yes, it was an order, not comment or suggestion) their men not to travel within M25.

British Defence secretary was trying really hard to defend this order by American force, yet he looked really unconfortable when asked by news presenters.

It is understandable if they told families of military men not to travel London unless it is absolutely necessary, or because of traffic confusion or not to disturb the emergency service. However, US force says "this order is to protect our own men".

Understandably, the British, particularly Londoners are angry with this.
One said, "Yes, the American forces should not only get out of London, but to get out of UK altogether. Without them, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place".

Bush got nothing to do with this. Still when he said yesterday,
"In this difficult hour, the people of Great Britain can know the American people stand with you", it sounds so thin for the Londoners...

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:17 am

What about the American embassy/consulate (or whatever it is called)?
Are they recalling staff from there?

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:28 am

[QUOTE=Ravager]What about the American embassy/consulate (or whatever it is called)?
Are they recalling staff from there?[/QUOTE]

No,no, it's only military personnel. That's why it made British people more angry.
If the American offices telling their people (ie tourists and businessmen) to avoid London, the British still be frustrated or disappointed, but can understand. But it is only for the US forces stationed in UK ordered by their top men in UK.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:10 am

The US embassy today announced that the order telling military personnel to avoid London has been lifted.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:39 pm

No,no, it's only military personnel. That's why it made British people more angry.
If the American offices telling their people (ie tourists and businessmen) to avoid London, the British still be frustrated or disappointed, but can understand. But it is only for the US forces stationed in UK ordered by their top men in UK.

I live near London. I just hadn't heard that piece of news.

For anyone who's interested and hasn't heard already, it seems the police are making progress, it's believed that the attacks were carried out by suicide bombers after raids carried out at Luton (just north of London) and in Yorkshire. Don't know much more than that. Check the BBC website for more info.