Gothic II - Don't buy it.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:53 pm

I just tried to play this disappointing game. At first, I was giving it the benefit of the doubt - since I had just played Star Wars: Knight of the Republic - which was fantastic - I thought maybe it understandably didn't hold up to that and I should not expect much.

Problems with Gothic II and why I don't advise buying it:

1. No Tutorial. This is a complicated game and the manual that comes with it is very skimpy. A short tutorial would have been very helpful.

2. Combat Controls. The WORST system I have ever encountered in any game. Basically, the controls are all on the keyboard - your mouse is pretty much useless. Here's how the controls work, as far as I could figure out.
a. Hit the spacebar or a number key to unsheath your weapon.
b. Hit the control button with your left hand to focus and attack.
c. At the same time, you will have to either strafe using A (strafe left) or D (strafe right), or you can block by going backwards (S or down arrow). W or up arrow to move forwards. Inexplicably, the right and left arrows will not let you strafe - so I kept confusing my hands. It's much easier to move around the game using the arrow keys, and feels completely awkward to have both hands all the way over on the left-hand side of the keyboard while in combat, using keys you ordinarily never use.

3. No potion hotkeys. You can edit your INI file to enable this, but I am not enclined to do mess around with that, plus I've heard it causes bugs.

4. Inventory system. Totally awkward set of boxes. Nothing is organized and to find something you have to move around with your arrow keys. To select, you need your mouse. Impossible to use during combat. You will be dead before you ever find and use anything.

5. No pause. As far as I can tell, you cannot pause the game, esp. a problem during combat, given how confusing the controls are.

Good things about the game.

1. It's non-linear, and has a Morrowind-like feel to it.

2. Lots of factions and complicated politics.

3. Some have criticized the graphics, but I thought they looked pretty good, if a bit dated.

Basically, I find the combat system so difficult to use that I will not complete this game. I will sell it to EBGames, I guess. I'm sure it's possible to learn to use the combat system, but I don't feel it's worth it to me to devote all my time to that. Perhaps, those of you out there that love tactical FPS's would enjoy it. It's a shame, because some of the role-playing aspects of it are pretty interesting. What I really can't understand is that this game is a sequel, and the very things that are terrible about this game were also terrible in the first game. Why they chose to maintain this clunky combat system after all the complaints about it in Gothic I is a mystery to me. If only they would fix it, they could really give Morrowind a run for their money. Personally, I would prefer a mostly mouse-controlled combat system.

Now I don't know what to get - I've played through Star Wars: KotOR a couple of times already. Maybe some sequels to games that I liked like Max Payne 2? Or Age of Mythology: The Titans? Looking forward to Deus Ex 2.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:58 pm

At the risk of seeming obsessive, try here.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:40 am

Originally posted by VoodooDali
<snip>
Maybe some sequels to games that I liked like Max Payne 2? Or Age of Mythology: The Titans? Looking forward to Deus Ex 2.

According to what I've read/heard - both Deus Ex 2 and Max Payne 2 have dissapointed.

Max Payne 2 should be very short according to what I'm told, and if it is shorter then Max Payne 1, well .... took like 10 hours to complete

Deus Ex 2, again - this is heard/read, but it should be way sub Deus Ex 1. They have apparently changed much of what made DX1 good, and now it seems to be more a console FPS then much else.

But I've not tried them myself, not like I'll get them when I hear they are short and worse then the original.

CannibalBob · Post by **CannibalBob** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:44 pm

Max Payne games are supposed to be short, it's the way it's supposed to be. You can only drag out running-in-rooms-and-killing so long.

Deus Ex 2 sucked. If you haven't played the first Deus Ex, play it through thorougly. If I were you, I'd play DX twice instead of spending money on DXIW. If DXIW is $5, that's too much. Anything more is horrendous.

I thought Gothic 2 was supposed to be a Morrowind clone. How could they get it wrong? Have the devs even PLAYED Morrowind? Basic rule: if you're going to make a damn clone, at least PLAY what you're cloning... thorougly!

Can't you remap the keys, make it us the arrow keys instead of WASD keys? That's the most basic interface ability in PC games: remapping keys. If you can't do that, then those devs OWE it to the world to release a patch that fixes it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:52 pm

Originally posted by CannibalBob
I thought Gothic 2 was supposed to be a Morrowind clone. How could they get it wrong? Have the devs even PLAYED Morrowind? Basic rule: if you're going to make a damn clone, at least PLAY what you're cloning... thorougly!

Absolutely not a Morrowind clone. The original Gothic appeared within a month or two of Morrowind, which was what made it almost invisible to RPGers. Gothic 2 uses the same engine. It's really not a bad game, at all, with a sense of RPG realism among the personalities of the NPCs you encounter that I haven't seen elsewhere. But the combat system is a tangled mess.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:19 pm

Originally posted by fable
Absolutely not a Morrowind clone. The original Gothic appeared within a month or two of Morrowind, which was what made it almost invisible to RPGers. Gothic 2 uses the same engine. It's really not a bad game, at all, with a sense of RPG realism among the personalities of the NPCs you encounter that I haven't seen elsewhere. But the combat system is a tangled mess.

Fable is correct here. What is soooo frustrating about Gothic II is that the other elements of the game are pretty neat, and I really wanted to play it, but I couldn't kill anything beyond a wolf. And if you can't kill anything, you can't advance the story. Another thing I thought of that the dev's could have done rather than altering their combat system (which they inexplicably seem proud of) is they could have offered an alternative way to solve quests other than killing. For example, I got stuck on a quest to obtain an herb for the Paladins. I had to kill the guard, and gave up after about 20 reloads. It would have been great if, like KotOR, they had incorporated a persuade/charisma dialogue feature that allowed some characters to talk their way out of a lot of situations.

Such a shame that Deus Ex 2 is so bad. I really liked the first one. I know that Max Payne 2 is okay, just short, but at least it will be playable!!! I don't think there are any more new RPG's out there for me to play, sigh. Maybe I'll look for a new adventure game or RTS game.

CannibalBob · Post by **CannibalBob** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:39 pm

Well if you're into it for the story, there is always God mode (or at least a "give health" code)!

But you still have to remember that the combat in Morrowind wasn't the best either. I haven't played Gothic 2, but if it's worse, probably not by much.

Personally, I like action/RPGs: not Diablo style though, which are more action than RPG. Morrowind is great because it combines the action with some good RPG in there. Most RPGs are strategy/RPG (like Baldur's Gate, IWD, KoToR, PST, ToEE, RoMD, etc.) Anyone who's played a good medieval action game (like Rune, or Crusaders of Might and Magic (crap game, but combat was kinda good)) would like to see that kind of combat in an RPG, with different types of moves, enemy weaknesses (ie. can slice off their arms or something).

It's just nice to have a really strong character stat-wise, but suck at controlling the character 'cus you don't know the moves or something.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:09 pm

But you still have to remember that the combat in Morrowind wasn't the best either. I haven't played Gothic 2, but if it's worse, probably not by much.

But if you haven't tried it, you don't know, do you?

It's actually much worse. More complex, and with very poorly chosen keyboard commands.

thenenea · Post by **thenenea** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:22 am

Gothic 2 and other - personal opinion

K, this is only what I think on the matter and it all comes to personal taste. Gothic is unique because of the combat system. It's challenging, takes quite some time to accomodate, but is really rewarding. I like the fact that is not only a point & click affair and I think is much better than Morrowind (who's combat system is worse than Daggerfall). KOTOR 1 & 2 are just point and click and they are really nice but totally different from Gothic. Max Payne 2 is really nice too (although a little bit short and reusing lots of things from the first, like the house on fire and indirect kill endboss sequeces). DeusEx 2 is really bad, and not because of the interface or aberrant simplifications (like the fact that all weapons use the same ammo) but because the story is flawed and they've taken out the "peak around the corner" ability of the first game. Come on, a sneaking game that plays like doom ?!?! So, in the end I think you might want to give another try to Gothic 2 because the story, the settings and the general character development are good and with a little patience and leveling up you'll end up a great fighter. Also there are "persuade" lines in the conversations, just not as evident as in KOTOR and not as many - the game is not oriented on "smooth talking" people but rather convincing them to do something based on the info you've already found (secret journals, pieces of paper that you steal from their houses, things you find out from a guard you get drunk). I really enjoyed the game and plan to try to finish it one more time with a mage (a class that is really, really hard to play with in Gothic)

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:20 pm

I really can't understand why some of you have such trouble with the combat-system or the controls in general. It took me about five minutes to get along with it. I know many people who like Gothic and Gothic 2, none of them have problems with the controls. Those who aren't into it simply don't like RPGs in general.

But German games are often critizised for being too complex - according to controls and gameplay. Perhaps we're just more tolerant. That would explain why complex games like...for instance Jagged Alliance 2 were more successful in Germany than in the USA. There is still a huge community here.

Apart from that I don't think that the Gothic controls are in any way complex or that a tutorial is needed. And instead of hitting the left control button you could try to actually use the mouse, especially the left mouse button. Works like the left control button. Makes fighting much easier.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:32 pm

VoodooDali wrote:I just tried to play this disappointing game. At first, I was giving it the benefit of the doubt - since I had just played Star Wars: Knight of the Republic - which was fantastic - I thought maybe it understandably didn't hold up to that and I should not expect much.

Disappointing game? I have disagree with you, IMO Gothic 2 is probably the second best Computer RPG I've ever played. All it takes is time to learn how to play it.

1. No Tutorial. This is a complicated game and the manual that comes with it is very skimpy. A short tutorial would have been very helpful.

No need for a tutorial, learning how to play G2 isn't too hard.

2. Combat Controls. The WORST system I have ever encountered in any game.

There are two fighting styles (G1 and G2) available in the settings, both are good IMO. You can also change the keys. Of course I understand that some people don't like a combat system like this, some people simply wanna click on a monster with the mouse and let the character do the combat automatically.

3. No potion hotkeys. You can edit your INI file to enable this, but I am not enclined to do mess around with that, plus I've heard it causes bugs.

Again, no need for potion hotkeys. I've tried using potion hotkeys and it makes the game way too easy. It's not too difficult even if you can't drink potions in combat.

4. Inventory system. Totally awkward set of boxes. Nothing is organized and to find something you have to move around with your arrow keys. To select, you need your mouse. Impossible to use during combat. You will be dead before you ever find and use anything.

Ok, I agree, the invetory system is quite bad because it takes a while to find the item you're looking for. But why would you want to use the inventory in combat?

5. No pause. As far as I can tell, you cannot pause the game, esp. a problem during combat, given how confusing the controls are.

There is pause

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:52 am

[QUOTE=Monolith]I really can't understand why some of you have such trouble with the combat-system or the controls in general. It took me about five minutes to get along with it. I know many people who like Gothic and Gothic 2, none of them have problems with the controls. Those who aren't into it simply don't like RPGs in general.[/quote]

A little generalizing without cause? I've played plenty of RPGs since roughly 1980, and began reviewing them (and other, non-game software) for various national magazines starting in 1987. So I certainly enjoy RPGs; but I found the combat system in the original Gothic annoyingly counter-intuitive. It eventually caused me to give up playing.

Nor do I think that my 1) like of RPGs and 2) problems with the combat interface were only true to me, and that everybody else who tried the game was a diehard FPS fan. If anything, it should alert you to the fact that a significant number of people were having difficulties. It certainly doesn't reveal any information about their likes or dislikes among game genres.

But German games are often critizised for being too complex - according to controls and gameplay. Perhaps we're just more tolerant. That would explain why complex games like...for instance Jagged Alliance 2 were more successful in Germany than in the USA. There is still a huge community here.

I don't know where you're getting your conclusions about the US market from, but Jagged Alliance II was a huge hit in the US, both critically and in stores. The idea that US gamers are morons is nonsense. It isn't that they lack intelligence, but rather, that the gaming market here stretches to a very young age, and quite a few large corporations who now produce games want to make "one size fits all" titles. Hence, the dumbing down of RPGs in such products as the KotoR series--but that doesn't define the US RPG market, and never has. Remember, it was American developers that produced Planescape: Torment, and King of Dragon Pass, arguably the two most complex computerized RPG titles ever made.

Axis420 · Post by **Axis420** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:35 am

I discovered gothic 1 and 2 after i had finished playing Elder scrolls 3, so from my point of view the controls are very similar. So i had no problem whatsoever. Plus as the saying goes (mind over matter) or practice makes perfect. You should really give it another try fable, the gothic series is not one to be missed.

-Axis420

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:44 pm

Don't misunderstand me, Axis. I actually *do* enjoy Gothic II. But I still dislike the controls, and I'm not too fond of posts that claim people who dislike a particular aspect of a game must automatically dislike RPGs.

thenenea · Post by **thenenea** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:29 pm

Gothic 2 is a diamond in the rough...

Well is not well polished on the control part and the inventory is not organised too well but I think declaring the game a failure or "worst game ever" is really an exageration. As for comparing to Morrowind I will say that Bethesda should have hired at least the screenplay writer from Piranha if not the whole design team. How can you compare the stunnig beautifull but lifeless world from Morrowind with Gothic 2 ? How many of the characters from Morrowind can you name in 15 seconds togheter with their background story and at least one sharp or funny remark they had ? Let me guess, 1 or 2 ? And it's really understandable. I finished the game twice (original and with all the expansions the second time) and there is nothing there than a beautifull, by the letter old school dungeon RPG with a lame story and forgettable characters. Not so in the Gothic 2. Everyone has a meaning, a purpose and a story to tell. It might be trivial, it might be cheesy sometimes but not forgettable. And you can really feel the world is alive around you, rich and beautiful but at the same time harsh and deadly. I cannot really undersand people who complain about the control scheme. Change the .ini (is not that hard, really) and configure the game as you please. And btw, activating the shortcuts for potions would bring you less bugs than Morrowind had untill the third or fourth patch. Is the world to hard, the battles to tough ? Speak to the people, do their chores and earn yourself experience and better equipment. If you get to the Amazonian jungle would you rush immediatelly into the forrest ? How about asking the folks who leave there for tips and directions ? And how about sticking to the more travelled roads for a while ? So please, try to avoid "sensational" titles like this. It's really a matter of taste what games everybody plays and also, if you want to talk bad about something try it first at least untill you can tell that you have reached a reasonable understanding of it. All the best.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:47 pm

Not to get off-topic, but unless I read wrong, did you just call the story line of Morrowind lame? Sorry to say, but if you read everything they say when you talk to people, you'll see that it isn't really lame. Wow, never thought anybody would think of Morrowind like that. If you listen, you were a prisoner at the opening credits, and as you progress (SPOILER POSSIBILITY) You get to work for the king I think. It's not supposed to be, "You do this and I'll give you something," but more as to "You go do what you want and when your ready, you can work for the king if you want to."

(Correct me on that if I am wrong, but that's kinda what I got out of it)

I don't see how that is Lame as it makes it open ended, fun, and it lets you be YOUR own character and not just an automatic character that MUST follow the storyline.

Now, back on topic. Gothic 2. ASIDE from the controls, no tutorial, and the inventory, is this game worth buying in terms of storyline and and open endedness? I care not of statistics of the game, but more as to the flow and stability of the storyline, the general direction of the game whether there be paths of good or evil, and how well the character is customizable.

thenenea · Post by **thenenea** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:34 am

Why I think the story is better in Gothic 2 ....

Well, yes, the story in Morrowind is really weak, considering that you are doing exactly the same thing as in Daggerfall who was released back in 1996. Despite its bugs I managed to finish Daggerfall and considered it great. I still do that. The game promised and delivered a great experience. The storyline was great for a game of that era, it was misterious and stimulated you to leave the dungeons for a while and try to solve the main quest. But in 2002 when Morrowind came out I had tha greatest dissapointment. Well, it was a great rebuilt but it was practically the same game. Kingdom in danger - checked, work directly for the king but get your orders from a spy of his - checked, big distances between cities but nothing to make the roads or cities memorable - checked. Hell, they even took my horse from Daggerfall and cut my legs cause it seems everybody in Morrowind starts with midget legs and cannot move any faster than a snail. There was a certain "test" in Daggerfall to know if your character was in the "big league": you had Daedra equipment and you were able to steal from stores. In Morrowind is that again you have Daedra equipment and you can walk at a decent speed or run more that 100 meters without dropping. Ah, and lets not forget the "brilliant" "rumour talk trees" that presented you with at least half a screen of borring and generally reused "info" to the point where I used to make my notes on a sheet of paper just to extract the few bits I needed. So is Morrowind a great engine for RPGs ? Withouth a doubt, yes. I would love to see someone who dares to use his/her imagination fly a little bit more pick it up and write a shorter but more thrilling adventure for it. But untill then that's all there is to it and is not enough for me. There is only that much "get the Daedric Katana, get the soul gem, get the better katana, get the better soul gem" that I can swallow. Now Bloodmore was a nice attempt in the right direction. Too bad they've rushed it and after the beginning of the quest turned to the "proven paths".
Getting to Gothic 2 I guess it was the "little people" of the game that made it really interesting. The lines and voice acting were much more "alive" than in other games, expecially Morrowind. When you first meet Xardas you get very fast the ideea that he's a dangerous fellow and you'd better not ask too much about his past. His got a non - nonsese mode of setting you into the story and gives you a clear purpose: get that thing by all means. Wow, by all means ? But why would that interest me ? Well, for start it might save your skin and also the whole kingdom and it's a thing of great power that chooses who can wear it. Hmm, now that sounds interesting. He also points toward your goal and indicates you a road. Care to adventure in the woods near the road ? Great, but be warned, this is not a world that cares that you are a rooky. It will chew you up in a second. They also throw in the first signs if an opposition to your quest before you reach your first town. So, by the time you get there you have a strong foothold in the story and a serious push to discover why and who planned this. The only thing that lacks is a decent character to uncover the secret. Well, this is the place to start then. 80% of the people in town have a personal point of view of the events in clear lines. They drop the occasional rumour and have a little story and some quests for you. Want a clear laid path that is relatively safe ? Join the militia and become a paladin. Care for a little more risks but a more variated experience ? Try to reach the mercenaries and join them. You've read well - you have to take risks even to get there. Feel like playing it all on one very risky card ? Join the magicians. Nothing comes easily and few things comes for free in Gothic 2 except trouble. If you play your cards well, help the people more than bully them, steal a little, rob and kill a little and then pray to the gods you might even get some decent starting equipment and a few friends. Want to get something from an NPC, lets say training ? Then you will have to prove yourself, either as a negociator or con artist, thief or valiant fighter. And there is no nanny around. All you have to do is carry a package to the wich ? Well, sound easy enough but nobody tells you that 5 meters further there are enemies who are a serious challange for a character with twice your experience and much better weapons. Keep your eyes open and choose your battles carefully. And each chapter has it's special setting, bringing the feeling that the designers wanted you to have. It's an open world but the mood is set and you cannot deny that the timing in wich events unfold is great. You start in an uneasy "something is brewing" state. As you progress you turn to "under siedge - man the gates and scout for a way out" and later move to full blown war and ultimatelly "last man standing - the fate of the world is in your hands". Even secret areas like a small hidden cave contain traces of life and links to new or previously unsolvable quest. It's not a "do all quest, get all loot" experience but more like life you alternate the moments when you run and hide with the one where you hold the line, sword in your hand. And people from your past are there to help you or distract you on the way - a nice touch that gives the character additional weight and personality. So do I thinks Gothic 2 is better in terms of story than Morrowind ? Yes. It looses to Morrowind in terms of graphics and size of the world but it ties much better the charactes and story in a much challenging one adding personality and humour to the NPCs and situations. I am looking forward to both Oblivion and Gothic 3 and hope both will improve in the areas where their predecessors were lacking. Until then I recomand Gothic 2 to any hardcore fan of RPGs.

WolfHeart · Post by **WolfHeart** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:12 am

Spoilers below

Morrowind is like Daggerfall without all the interesting features, i want back the penalties that you could put on a character and the bonuses, and for me a few birth signs didnt cut it in comparison to the huge list that daggerfall had. I (read I, not putting words in anyones mouth here) didnt think much of Morrowind, the grafics where nice, some of its story elements where cool especialy the large ammount of background notes, books and parchments you could find but all in all Morrowind just didnt cut it for me like it did for others.

Magic in Morrowind is patheticaly useless, i have no fun playing a pure mage class, and a few schools dominate the magic tree due to their usefull buffs and their ability to teleport you or allow you to open locks and reach innacesable areas. In gothic on the other hand magic is made for battle and it does it job at that very well most spells decimate hordes of enemies, but you still retain some minor utility spells like, teleportation(all characters get it to keep things fair)sleep, summoning spells healing ETC.

Gothic on the other hard had too simple of a character development which is about my only bug with the game. No i dont mind the inventory, or the controls those are easy to get used to if you enjoy the game and keep playing it. I would have loved to be able to use a shield, or dual wield, i think that would have made 1 handed weapons much better, and given due competition to 2 handers.

I think the controls actualy make the weapons in the game take some skill to use properly, even at master level you cant just go into battle click and completly decimate everything, it makes fighting multiple enemies a hard task and rewards people who pull their kill to a safe area before attacking it melle.

Gothic2 isnt the best game but i enjoyed playing it miles more then i did Morrowind.

Greywulf · Post by **Greywulf** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:06 pm

Don't play it?!?!?

I wanted to post a bit of a rebuttal to this thread since I am a big fan of Gothic, and I think that the game is one of the best out there.

Gothic 2 is like Morrowind with a more medieval/less alien feel. It is large and free-form, like Morrowind, but not quite as big. Like Morrowind, it is in first-person perspective by default, and is not a Diablo-style game.
You could argue that the plot to Morrowind is pretty clever, but then again, not entirely original. You don't know who you are as you arrive on the island of Morrowind, but it will turn out that you may be the reincarnation of the Nerevarine. In PST, you don't know who you are, but it will turn out that you are a reincarnation of yourself, and something of an immortal. And in BG2, you are the son of a deity. And in Morrowind, you are basically going to save the world from evil, a common theme.
All that being said, Gothic 2 is not really original either - you are a nameless hero who is going to protect the world from the dragon-led orcs forces that threaten it.
Morrowind had a unique leveling scheme and approach to classes and skills and character customization. So does Gothic 2. Does anything make Gothic any more complex or difficult than Morrowind? Not necessarily.
Everyone who wants to find a complaint about Gothic 2 will bring up the controls. Admittedly, they are different than many other games out there, primarily because they are not a mouse-oriented point-and-click affair. This makes them unfamiliar, and thereby difficult, but once you get accustomed to them, they will be as second-nature as any game's controls. They present a steeper learning curve simply because they are not like most other games. But there is nothing inherently faulty in the system. Just be prepared to have to adjust and don't take your first playing time or two too seriously. Think of them as practice sessions if you want.
There is no tutorial, but please do read the Read Me file and the manual.
You can activate hotkeys, and they do work. Read the Read Me file.
You can activate quick save and quick load keys, too - it's all in the Read Me.
No, you cannot pause in combat or even search through your inventory without subjecting yourself to attacks from your foes. Annoying? Perhaps. But it is much more realistic. If you're in a fight, would you ignore your opponent to look through your backback?
I have read some reviews that say the graphics are average. I think they are better than those in Morrowind, but perhaps this is just my opinion.
The game has smart AI and the characters are very well-designed and IMO much better looking than those in Morrowind.

If you liked Morrowind, you ought to check out Gothic 2. Gothic 1 is great, too, but less polished with poorer graphics. G2 does pick up where G1 leaves off, and there are many recurrent characters and topics, but you do not need to have played G1 to get G2. G2 also addressed many of the complaints people had with the games (hotkey, quick save, keyboard control issues).

All I'm saying is give it a try. Don't be deterred by the keyboard control system or complaints about the combat system. And if you need to hear something about the game to send the point home, it is this:
It has dragons. Real big, real scary, and real deadly.

Acleacius · Post by **Acleacius** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:43 am

The biggest mistake of the publsiher/developer was to make the Defaiult Controls like Gothic 1.
To you guys that have the game all you need to do is set Gothic 1 controls OFF, till you get used to the game and game world, it is a LOT to get used to.

Once you understand the leveling and get orentated, if you want to turn the Gothic1 cotrols back on you can anytime.
You will find one of the most realistic combat modes, you have seperate keys for Block, Right swing and Left swing allowing for reall cool combo moves depending on your skill levels.
You must learn each monster's, human's or animal's fighting style, ie animals can't be blocked, but you if you dont block with agaisnt humans or monters you die FAST.

Shame you guys missed out on a great game while the graphics do not match Morrowind, the quest are much better you feel like your really talking to different NPCs with different personallities.
The new Radiant AI Obliviin has comes from seeing how well Gothic series AI, which they were doing back in 2000 with Gothic 1.
The terrain is great too much better than Morrowind, much more like climbing real mountains.
I liked Morrowind but was let down by the lifelessness but Gothic's biggest asset is it is very alive with personality, especially for an inde title that was so popular it is now releasing a 3 title in the series later this year, my guess Q4.

It honestly is a pretty hardcore RPG, but if you can set the contols to NON GOthic 1 and dont try to go far off the road till your maybe 10th level (just doing quest in the first town) you will come away with one of the best RPG experiences you have had.

PS No problems with setting potions hotkeys or setting Quick save in the ini .

Oh yeah it has one of the coolest features in the console I have even seen, you can Inhabit any person or creature even a Dragon to mess around with an play very cool, but dont wonder off to far from your charater he will disappear and you will lose him forever, without a reload.