beloved sorcerers

[Hazim ibn Gorion]

I recently used Shadowkeeper to turn Nalia into a sorceress instead of a mage/thief...and I have decided that sorcerers are superior to mages. (Controversy? Bring it on.)

The thing I always hated about mages was all that memorization crap. RPG-wise, I understand why it has to be done, but it's just such a pain in my ass. You memorize the spells you think you want, and then find you're missing the right one or, worse, you already used it and are stuck with something you can't use. This simply does not occurr with a sorcerer. The flexibility is great. I always have what I need.

Most of the criticism I've read of the class seems to center around the fact that they don't have nearly the same amount of spells to choose from as a mage. But for me, this is a non-starter. Now I'm sure there are lots of ubermages out there who find ways to use every spell in their book. But from the start (BGI), I've found that I latch onto favorites and rarely use more than 4 or 5 of any level. (I use many more of the priest spells, for some reason.) So the fact that you can't have as many spells at your disposal is no big deal, especially since you can pick exactly which spells you want at level-up and don't have to go hunting for scrolls. And as for scrolls, don't forget that the sorcerer can still use them with no problem. So there are those spells that are nice to have but only get used a few times in the whole game (contingencies, in my case). Well, just get the scrolls and keep 'em in the case until needed.

Next game, I'm playing sorcerer...no doubt about it. Anyone beg to differ?

[Xandax]

The only reason I don't play sorcerers is that they can't dualclass.

I love spellcasters (mages) - but I also want to dish out some damage with either a bow or meleweapons - so I have to compromise and dual a fighter.

[Foss]

Well, I have read laot of fantasy books, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, the Death Gate Cycle, just take some. And I have always loved the mages, and that they have to memorized, for not to be to powerfull...and I think it is cool to be mage.
Also that when you just have ended a big fight, and you don´t have so much spells left, and another fight emerge, then I think it is cool that you need to fight this fight with just some few spells, spells you only would use when you have used the other good spells.

[rapier]

The sorc is far more mightier than the mage! The sorc can cast multiple death spells, instead of one or two, or multiple cloudkills for dragons; you don't have to look for good scrolls either!

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- Beware SHADows
- Beware places where the night LIVEs.
- They wait
- There is no Natural Darknesss
- Only ShaDOWS

[Foss]

I don´t choose a character because, he or she might be the best, I choose a character I like. SO I really don´t care if a Sorcerer is stronger than I mage...A would always choose a mage, instead of a Sorcerer

[Giles the Sorcerer]

Sorcerers are better then mages in some ways, but: They are poor mages if they are the only mage. Many spells such as stone to flesh are rarely used, but needed often enough you can't rely on scrolls. This creates the problem of, do you A) Take that spell on your sorcerer or B)Do without.

Also, if you take one with you from the beginning, spell needs change through the game. In the beginning you may want invis 10' radius, but you may want to upgrade to improved invis 10' etc. Again, you have two options. waste one of those ever rare spell slots, or go without for a large part of the game.

[tigerone]

Agreed.

Either set him for the the short run or plan him for the long run.

[Giles the Sorcerer]

What spells do you take if you play a sorcerer (or, if you have not played one, what would you suggest?) I usually take breach, stoneskin, mirror image. Ruby ray. lower resistance. some invis spell if you don't have Jaheria/Cernd or another mage. then pick some protection and offense spells of my choice

Planning longterm is very hard IMO. certain spells are needed at certain levels.

[Fof]

I found playing a sorcerer didn't give me the flexibility I needed for the variety of monsters I encountered. It was excellent most of the time but I found it frustating if I needed a spell that she didn't have.

[TheHellion]

Hmmm. I'm playing through with a sorcerer right now, and haven't had any problems whatsoever. I haven't quite finished the game with him yet, but I don't anticipate that I'll need any spells that I don't have. The sorcerer doesn't have as broad of a spell base, but it hasn't proven to be troublesome so far. I think some people end up getting into trouble with the sorcerer because they take on too many offensive spells. It's certainly entertaining to be able to desintigrate, petrify, polymorph, delay-blast fireball, and finger of death every opponent. But - and there's always a but - it's pretty pointless and a waste of spell power to have more than one offensive spell of any given level. I stuck with magic missle, Melf's acid arrow, desintigrate (saves vs. spell are typically harder than saves vs. petrification), and finger of death (-2 on save, still damages regardless). I also made sure to have mirror image, stoneskin, spell shield, and eventually improved mantle. Remove magic, breach, and ruby ray of reversal are also musts.


[This message has been edited by TheHellion (edited 02-04-2001).]

[Giles the Sorcerer]

I'd say level 3 spells are the only exception to the offensive spells rule. Taking skull trap/fireball and flame arrow gives you powerful accurate and area effect 'bread n butter' offensive spell. (Plus launching 3 fire balls out of a trigger is hella nice)

[tigerone]

I agree with Giles and Hellion. I relied on at most 3 offensive spells throughout the game, even though I had the breadnbutter fireball.

Magic Missile, Fireball, Acid Arrow, Flame arrow - when all else fails and you lack inspiration...I actually don't use these because of my strategy.

Melf's Minute Meteors!!!!! If you ever play a sorceror, this spell is absolutely amazing and will carry you to the mid-game. You have to try this, because with a sorceror's ability to cast several of these per day, you can be a ranged machine gun that even kills off trolls! Basically you hurl rocks of fire, that has a decent THAC0 rating, and the higher level you are the more you get (up to 11 or 12). You;ll be surprised, for the first two weeks of game time my sorceror was the leading monster killer by far.

Lvl 6 and up

Death Spell - one of the most overlooked spells ever! You kill ALL summoned creatures, but not your own, and kill ALL enemies below 8 levels/Hit dice. These include: spiders, orcs, goblins, minotaurs, animals, Sahuagin, Kuo-Tuos, those snakemen, efreets, djinnis, nishruus, etc., basically most low experience giving enemies, except for mage and cleric characters. Definitely what I call a "convenience spell" as it wipes out enemies that for the most part wouldn't give you too much trouble unless they swarmed you, and it makes the game much faster. However, it is a godsend against nishruus.

Finger of Death in conjunction with Greater Malison (and Lower resistance for those pesky dragons and demons). I use my sorceror to wipe out those big guys with this spell

Abi Dal's Horrid Wilting! Best area effect spell in the game without removing the experience cap.

Breach, stoneskin, greater malison, lower resistance, and ruby ray are essential. My sorceror ended up hogging all the credits for Most Powerful Creature Killed.

[This message has been edited by tigerone (edited 02-04-2001).]

[Thomas]

I too must confess that the very formidable flexibility of the sorcerer have made me create one for each session of BG2 I played, using the shadowkeeper to alter one of the NPC into that kit.


The ability to choose your spell when it is needed and cast it quite a number of times if necessary is very potent. This allows for a very _different_ game than one that depends on regular mages. Different but not superior. Mages are a power on their own right, mind you, and were the only choise for spellcasters until quite recently indeed. If carefully planned a mage is unstoppable, especially if you know what you are up against. The strength of the sorcerer is just is the weakness of the mage however, and vice versa, since a sorcerer is ready for everything he or she can imagine.


A mage, with the usually content rich spellbook, is however also prepared for things you could not imagine with a quick withdrawal and rememorisation. A sorcerer is only as flexible as the choises of spells allows. Once chosen the spells known can not be altered.


This "rigid flexibility" is rather easily countered by purchased scrolls and wands though and has never been a problem for me in the game. All spells have their uses. Even if you have to create the uses for them so to speak.

[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 02-04-2001).]

[MistJaguar]

*shrugs* to me the sorcerer isn't much different then how ssi/tsr had the preservers set up in the two darksun games they made (both of which are excellent imo even though they're slightly out of date) there you got to choose one spell per level up and if you found one of the rare scrolls (there must've been less then 10 or so in the game) you could copy it to the spell book, but you also got to choose which spell to cast at that time as did the druids and clerics... so the sorcerer is pretty much hometurf for me because of that game, anyone else remember shatterlands and wake of the ravanger, personally i want to see a third, which wouldn't be online only, Darksun game come out...

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"Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know."
--Lao Tsu

[Giles the Sorcerer]

Does Malison stack? it would be really nice for Imoen and me to be able to load up spelltriggers with them and knock Firkraags saving throws to 20 ; )

[TheHellion]

Originally posted by Giles the Sorcerer
I'd say level 3 spells are the only exception to the offensive spells rule. Taking skull trap/fireball and flame arrow gives you powerful accurate and area effect 'bread n butter' offensive spell. (Plus launching 3 fire balls out of a trigger is hella nice)

I agree. However, having already played through the game a few times, I tried to avoid picking up spells that I knew I could mimic later on with magic items. For instance, other than spell shield, I didn't take any defensive spells that protected from magic, because I knew I'd eventually pick up the cloak of mirroring. Also, the staff of the magi is simply awesome. That eliminated the need for invisibility, protection from evil, fireball, lightning bolt, and spell trap. Quite an arsenal right there. Still, the validity of a triple fireball spell sequencer just can't be contested.

[Aegnor]

Haven't played the sorceror but now am curious: Do people us scrolls to set up spell triggers (thus saving a 7th spell) and use them in-emergency-only? Or is it better to learn the spell and use triggers often?

Because of all the wands/scrolls and daily use items out there I find it generally easy to be prepared for most things with the mages. I've shied away from sorcerors because of their slow (in level) spell progression table. And, also, I've found my mages' spell books "evolve" over the course of the game.

So I'm wondering, for all you sorceror players: do you also have a mage in the party? Who? This must offset sorceror limitations considerably.

@tigerone - try death fog instead of death spell. Just as good vs. nishruu, and deals out damage regardless of level.

[Thomas]

To Giles the Sorcerer.

Yes, Greater Malison does indeed stack as does the Doom spell. A favourite tactic is to use a spelltrigger with three Greater Malison and then clean up the place with Chromatic Orbs and Skull Traps. :d

I usually ignore spellremoval spells until I can reach the Pierce Shield spell wich lasts troughout the game.

[Garcia]

I would always pick a sorc. before a mage. you don't have that many spells to pick from(but enough) most partys have 2-3 magic users (mageclasses) so they have the spells that you don't use that often whille you can concetrat on picking the right spells for your sorc.
plus there are too much trouble and wasted time with memo. the spells (also after lvl. drains and items removed)

[Radek]

I agree with the majority of contributions posted above. My only reason for not playing a sorcerer is the impossibility of creating a dual-class fighter/SORCERER. I count on weapons rather on spells, therefore, I require all my characters to be able of fight and survival.
The mages in AD&D are caricatures of RPG- mages. Again the reason has been stated above. You are forced to memorize spells again and again only to find again and again that you need different spells. Also, low number of spells that you can memorize is highly irritating.
If only we could dual class to a sorcerer! The mage class would be forgotten immediately. At least as I am concerned. And what about a cleric class that behaves like a sorcerer?