Character creation question.

[liorde]

Hello folks,
I have a question regarding the creation of characters in IWD2.

Specifically I am talking about a sorcerer I just created. Went thru all the stages,picked the spells etc... In the game though, when I wish to use the spell (magic missile for example) it is grayed out (disabled) and a tooltip appears over it saying that the spell is "Beyond the spellcaster's ability". What in the world does that mean???
Another thing, now regarding a rogue i created. I cannot use her theiving abilities like Lock Pick, Steal. Also this is grayed out.
Why so?
what did I do wrong?

Thank-you

[Aerich]

Howdy liorde,

Offhand, I'd say your sorceror doesn't have the required Charisma score - you have to have a minimum 10 Cha (I think) to cast any sorceror spells. The casting stat for sorcerors is Charisma, not Intelligence. This is a common mistake for those new to the game. A good sorceror has a max Cha score and a fairly high Int (for skill points and skill checks). A good Con is nice too, for hitpoints and concentration checks and Dex for AC, saving throws, and ranged weapons.

With your rogue, I'd say you either don't have enough Dexterity or you are wearing armour that's too heavy. Wait... did you put skill points into those thief skills?

[liorde]

Thanks for the reply.

I think you are right regaridng the sorcerer. I put all the distribution points on INT and maz DOWN the CHA points. That is because I want a Fighter-Mage type of character. Is it OK to construct one like this from sorcerer type??

Thanks again.

[Ravager]

You should be able to do that, just put lots of points in STR, CHR and CON.

[Aerich]

It will work ok, but a Fighter/Sorceror isn't that common a build - most players using a sorceror want as many levels as possible for greater spell choice. A sorceror doesn't have nearly the spell variety of a Wizard and takes one level longer than a wizard to access a given spell level (Example: Wizard can first cast lvl 3 spells at character level 5; Sorceror can first cast lvl 3 spells at character level 6). However, in return, a sorceror can cast more spells per level and can pick the most appropriate spell he knows and cast it instantly without memorizing.

You could do a paladin/sorceror with 2-4 levels in paladin - bearing in mind that once a paladin multiclasses to anything other than the favoured class of one of the three orders (Fighter, Cleric of Ilmater, or Wizard) it can no longer gain levels as a paladin.

If you want a good fighter combined with good spells, might I suggest a cleric? The clerics of IWD2 are offensive powerhouses compared to those of IWD1. What kind of build are you looking for? A melee specialist whose spells are primarily for increasing melee power and durability? A decent melee fighter with offensive spells for long range attacks? Check out the Battleguard of Tempus/Painbearer of Ilmater/Watcher of Helm for the first option and the Stormlord of Talos/Morninglord of Lathander for the second option.

Please note that in this magic system the spellcaster level affects the enemy's saving throw. Thus the spells of a level 10 wizard are harder to save against than those of a level 5/5 fighter/wizard.

[liorde]

Thakn-you for the reply !!

So,
I understand that I will have to erase that sorcerer character and create a new one from scratch, am I correct here ?
Lucky me, I am only in the beginning of the game so I have not earned too much EXP points.
What I *want*, is a true offensive spell caster which can melee close, and cast from far away. But I want a bombardier type of caster and not a sniper...
What can you guys recommend me here please?
Currently, I have Fighter, Cleric-Fighter, Wizardess, Rogue, Sorcerer (which I am suppose to change). This is a party of 5. I am trying to play a power-party relying on the guide of JUKKA.

Thank-you

[Aerich]

You're not asking much, are you?

I would focus on being a bombardier first, then ranged attacks, then melee. Pure sorceror with maybe one or two levels of fighter (or preferably paladin) is probably the way to go. If fighter, you can add more levels later. If paladin, you get the yummy paladin attributes, including adding Charisma bonus to saving throws.

Good spell choice can actually make a sorceror a pretty good melee fighter. Use Mirror Image, one of the Mage Armor/Spirit Armor/Ghost Armor spells, Stoneskin, Blur, Blink, Mordenkainen's Sword, and Tensor's Transformation.

Bear in mind that average character level at the end of the (non-Heart of Fury) game is about 16. If you take even 4 levels of fighter with your sorceror, your sorceror won't be very powerful. A lvl 12 sorceror won't even be able to access Mordenkainen's Sword.

I approach the party as a "team" unit - you have two good fighting units already, and don't really need a third. A pure sorceror rules the normal game, a warrior/sorceror not so much, unless only a couple of warrior levels are taken.

I wouldn't recommend trying Jukka's approach on your first run through the game. You need your own gaming experience to find out what works for you. Personally, I favour parties with just enough melee power and major emphasis on spell buffs and bombardment. For me, that means a spell-enhanced deep gnome monk is the best character in a normal game.

One of the problems with Jukka's party is that it is slow to develop. That's not a problem if you have gone through the game a couple of times already, but a first-timer may get overwhelmed - depending on amount of experience at playing these sorts of games. If you haven't played IWD1 and are coming directly from BG you might struggle a little with the sheer numbers of enemies. If you are using all ECL races as I believe Jukka advises, the effect is even more pronounced.

Every class in this game is powerful in its own right, and it's not necessary to mix and match classes to have a party easily good enough to win the game in normal mode. HoF is somewhat skewed.

[liorde]

Thanks again Aerich !!!

You sure know a lot about this game
Actually I am a IWD and HOW veteran, but that was 2 years ago. Have not touched RPG's since due to lack of time :-\
Anyway, regarding the 5th character, have not made up my mind yet about him/her. Definitely a spellcaster but can you please tell me the differneces between sorcerer and wizard in more details? I already have a wizardess, I think evoker.
Do you recommend playing this game with a prty of 6 or 5 would do well??
Also, what happens if you are in game, and you wish to replace one of your characters, what happens to his accumulated EXP points ?

Thanks a bunch.

[Aerich]

Wizard vs sorceror: long post ahead

Ok, here's the lowdown. I've got categories on the left side, and denote advantage (wizard = W, sorc = S) on the right.

Quicker access to spells - W
Better spell variety - W
Greater number of spells per day - S
Ability to learn spells automatically on level up - S (W cannot)
Ability to learn spells from scroll - W (S cannot)
Ability to cast without prior memorization - S (W cannot)

Note that a sorceror can cast any spell a wizard can cast, but has to spend a precious "learning" slot on it. For that reason, a sorceror should not learn spells that have limited use - spells such as Sleep (only affects monsters with less than 5 HD), Laerloch's Minor Drain, etc. Ideal spells for sorcerors are damage dealers that increase with level and aren't capped too low (Skull Trap, Horrid Wilting, etc) and buffing spells that will see much use (Shield, Mirror Image, Cat's Grace, Stoneskin). Every sorceror should learn Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb; you probably remember their effectiveness from IWD/HoW, and it hasn't dropped any. A pure sorceror with the Spell Focus: Evocation feats can knock some very tough creatures out of combat with the lengthy paralyze effect of a CO, and MM deals good damage with no saving throw and is a good way to disrupt casters or take down Mirror Images.

Quick tip on party composition - it is very common to have two arcane casters, one specialist and generalist. Since you have a sorceror to be your specialist, I would not recommend using a specialist wizard as your generalist. Reason being, you will not be able to learn spells from the opposition school(s). An evoker will miss out on conjuration and I think enchantment as well. NOT a good idea to skip those schools of magic for one more spell per level. I would rank evocation, conjuration and enchantment as about equal spell schools, with necromancy close behind. And evocation takes a back seat to each of the other three in HoF mode. Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that if you have two mage-spell casters with one of them a sorceror, I would recommend a plain wizard as the second.

One more thing, and one that tips the balance toward multiclassing a wizard - access to spell scrolls typically lags behind the advancement rate of a pure wizard; a pure wizard will often find that (s)he has the slots to cast a high level spell, but no spell scrolls of the appropriate level. Adding a couple of fighter levels or rogue levels to a wizard isn't a bad idea.

For your first time through, I would recommend going with the full 6. Take an extra healer if you don't know what the 6th character should be. A druid or a second cleric can free up your first cleric to do things other than just heal party members - and extra spellcasters are nice.

If you wish to replace a character, its accumulated XP is lost when the character is dismissed. But there are advantages to bringing in a lvl 1 character. IWD2 does not give out a set amount of XP per monster; XP is awarded on a shifting scale, depending on the average party level (sum of individual levels divided by number of characters, always rounded down). Additionally, the XP given out stays the same (e.g. the maximum) as long as the average party level is under 6. So a level 5 party might get 1000 XP for a troll and a level 12 party might not get anything for the same troll. Bringing in that lvl 1 character reduces the average party level and often means the party as a whole will get more XP from the monsters it kills.

[liorde]

You're a life saver...

You sure know your way around this game.
What I am trying to learn is the specifics of the game. Every game focuses on some aspect, for example when I played Planescape Torment I learned that the character's most important attributes are INT, CHA and WIS which boosts EXP points from quests and also gives you better dialogue options with all NPC's... way better gameplay experience...

So you suggest that I play a 6 player party . Maybe I will add another character. I dont know which though. How are half-orc types? Can they make a good cleric? What are Gnomes good for? I never played a halfling character, not in IWD as well. Any good in that char?

Thank-you !!

[Ravager]

Gnomes get are good at illusions and may get free Spell Focus in it (I'm not sure). Their favoured class is definitely Wizard though.
Halflings are good rogues and get a DEX bonus in addition to the rogue favoured class.
I think the Half-Orc favoured class is Barbarian and they get a penalty to CHR. There is no penalty to WIS though, so a half-orc should make a reasonable cleric.

[liorde]

When I created the first sorcerer type character, it was a drow.
In the game I noticed that it has a small icon on it's thumbnail. When I checked it out, it says - "Day Blindness". What is this exactly?

Thank-you

[Ravager]

With races that are supposed to live underground, such as drow and duergar, they get a penalty in the day-time as they are unused to sun-light. This only happens when they are outside during day-time.

I don't know the exact penalty, but it shouldn't be too bad. I think these races have a greater chance to be blinded by fire spells, too. The exact enalties should be in the manual under the details for those particular races.

[Aerich]

Well, IWD2 doesn't focus on roleplay. However, it's worth having a character or two with decent Charisma and some skill points in Intimidate, Bluff, and Diplomacy, because there are opportunities to get extra XP.

I would say the trick is to maximize the key stats of a class; the amount of min/maxing is up to you but it makes the game easier if all your casters have the maximum bonus to their spells - it makes it more difficult for the opposition to save and also grants bonus spells. With the limited amount of stat points, you will have to make some tradeoffs.

Half-orcs are fine. They have a penalty to Int and Cha, so they won't make a top-flight wizard or sorceror, but they will perform well as clerics and shine as fighters or barbarians. A half-orc cleric is well suited to the role of a "battle caster", a character focusing on pre-combat spell buffs and a hefty melee attack. It can also multiclass with no penalty to barbarian - a single level of barbarian added on to a Battleguard of Tempus could be quite powerful. A good complement to this character is a Morninglord of Lathander; Morninglords are better suited to being a "typical" cleric as their domain spells tend toward the healing - they are also arguably the best offensive spellbombers of the clerical type because of their access to fire spells - be sure to get the SF: Evocation feats and Spirit of Flame feat with a Morninglord.

A gnome's favoured class is Illusionist specialist wizard. A halfling's favoured class is rogue, with the exception of the ghostwise variety (FC is barbarian). Note that both races receive a strength penalty. Gnomes make good wizards, even if non-specialist, and could be quite a decent battle mage type with a few levels of fighter tacked on to an Illusionist. This would not work so well using the wizard class, because the character would receive an XP penalty, and you would have to have another character who could cast the opposition school's spells. Halflings can be fantastic rogues, and are actually a good all-round race.

There is no Illusion spell focus that I am aware of - only Evocation, Transmutation, Necromancy, and Enchantment.

Specifically, I think day blindness is a -1 to hit, damage, and saves when outside in the day. Both drow and duergar suffer from it. I haven't noticed that it is a big deal. The tradeoff can be well worth it. Drow and Deep Gnomes, despite the ECL penalty, have the potential to be the best characters in the game because of their stat bonuses (drow - Dex, Int, Cha; DG - Dex, Wis) and spell resistance. While a deep gnome monk isn't the most powerful melee character, it is certainly the most durable (absent Jukka's complicated melee builds). I would avoid duergar because their -2 ECL isn't merited by their racial bonuses. If you really want a dwarf, take one of the other sub-races.

To return to the topic of the specifics of the game, other good characters include Dreadmasters of Bane and characters with at least one level of paladin. Dreadmasters have a class bonus to make it more difficult to save against them and can get the best Wis in the game because of a quest specific to Banites. The proper use of a dreadmaster is as an enchanter - adding the SF: Enchantment feats (and later, Necromancy) turns a dreadmaster into a dominant caster. Do I need to elaborate on the obvious in-game reasons for a paladin?

Among races, Aasimar are also good. They have a total of +4 stat points (over a normal human) consisting of a +2 to Wis and Cha. Obvious race for clerics and sorcerors. Favoured class is paladin, so a multiclass paladin/sorceror or paladin/cleric is possible. They also have other little goodies (Sunscorch, elemental resistances) that make them a bargain at a -1 ECL penalty.

Don't overlook pure humans, either. They are the most flexible race (favoured class is whatever is highest) and get extra skill points, which is a great feature if you want to take a couple of stat points that would otherwise go into Int and put them elsewhere.

[Ravager]

There is no Illusion spell focus that I am aware of - only Evocation, Transmutation, Necromancy, and Enchantment.

I'm just getting it confused with NWN, then .

[Aldon]

[QUOTE=liorde]What I *want*, is a true offensive spell caster which can melee close, and cast from far away. But I want a bombardier type of caster and not a sniper...
What can you guys recommend me here please?[/QUOTE]

For true powergaming, read JUPP, UPP and SilverDragon's write-up. For normal game (not powergaming), the best offensive caster/melee character would be a cleric of Lathander or Talos. They have very powerful offensive spells and moderate melee ability. You may want to take one of these as your 6th member.

PS: 1/2 orcs make good clerics

[liorde]

Thank-you ALL for the replies

You have been trully helpful, making the game much easier to start with.

This game is true pleasure indeed...!!
BTW, does IWD2 have an expansion?


Thanks again.

[Aerich]

You're welcome

No, there are no IWD2 expansions. But it is a decent length, and the HoF mode offers a challenge - essentially doubling the size of the game, as people generally run a party through normal mode first before entering HoF.