High Intelligence - any use?
High Intelligence - any use?
I know intelligence is the prime requisite for the mage and that it is obviously a factor in Dual classing. But is there any real advantage in a character (including a mage) having an Intelligence above 18?
Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt! (It's good advice, I should try it sometime! 
)
)[QUOTE=Legin]I know intelligence is the prime requisite for the mage and that it is obviously a factor in Dual classing. But is there any real advantage in a character (including a mage) having an Intelligence above 18?[/QUOTE]
For a wizard (not a sorceror), intelligence determines spell memorization ability chance (19 is about 95%, to 18 being 85%), total number of spells you can learn (at 19 you can learn all the spells, at 18 you can learn most), and spell level you can use (with either 18 or 19 you can learn 9th level spells).
Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.
For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.
For a wizard (not a sorceror), intelligence determines spell memorization ability chance (19 is about 95%, to 18 being 85%), total number of spells you can learn (at 19 you can learn all the spells, at 18 you can learn most), and spell level you can use (with either 18 or 19 you can learn 9th level spells).
Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.
For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.
Ok 19 it is then. But anything over 19 seems unneccessary. This seems a little unbalanced when compared with Wisdom which provides additional spells to Clerics (the Higher the Wisdom, the higher the level of the bonus spells). Fighters see the benefit of trying to get as high a STR as possible, (increases in damage / to hit -although not amazing at least its something!).
My point is that there seems to be more of a real incentive to increase the other attributes to as high as possible, but INT kinda fizzles out at 19.
Is there something I've misunderstood or some benefit I haven't seen?
My point is that there seems to be more of a real incentive to increase the other attributes to as high as possible, but INT kinda fizzles out at 19.
Is there something I've misunderstood or some benefit I haven't seen?
Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt! (It's good advice, I should try it sometime! )
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Philos
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Besides Lore I believe high intelligence also adds pluses to certain saving throws (spells I think, maybe others) and to checks for illusions and secret doors.
However, you can get around the learning % and the total number of spells you are allowed to learn (as long as you have at least 15 intelligence) by using potions of genius. They boost your intelligence by 4 so your learning % goes up to 96 to 99% depending on what you started at. Once a spell is in your spell book it does not go away. I have Nalia and when she hit her max number of spells for a spell level (or levels) I saved up all the scrolls she hadn't been allowed to learn yet but possible could. Bought a potion a genius (have found a couple on my own as well) and she went to work. The potion last for a few hours so there is no rush. Presently she has 20-1st, 19-2nd, 19-3rd, 18-4th, and 19-5th level spells in her spell book. I will probably never use half of those spells but since learning them provides experience points and they don't go away it seemed like a good idea.
Haven't gotten far enough to know if you can use the potion to let you memorize a 9th spell. Only possible way I can think of for that to work would be to take the potion just before resting and see if a 9th level slot appears.
However, you can get around the learning % and the total number of spells you are allowed to learn (as long as you have at least 15 intelligence) by using potions of genius. They boost your intelligence by 4 so your learning % goes up to 96 to 99% depending on what you started at. Once a spell is in your spell book it does not go away. I have Nalia and when she hit her max number of spells for a spell level (or levels) I saved up all the scrolls she hadn't been allowed to learn yet but possible could. Bought a potion a genius (have found a couple on my own as well) and she went to work. The potion last for a few hours so there is no rush. Presently she has 20-1st, 19-2nd, 19-3rd, 18-4th, and 19-5th level spells in her spell book. I will probably never use half of those spells but since learning them provides experience points and they don't go away it seemed like a good idea.
Haven't gotten far enough to know if you can use the potion to let you memorize a 9th spell. Only possible way I can think of for that to work would be to take the potion just before resting and see if a 9th level slot appears.
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@Philos
I wasn't aware that it affected rolls for saves vs spells / detect illusions. Are you sure about this? I've never seen anything in the maunal about it - was it left out accidently or is it from the D&D rules?
I wasn't aware that it affected rolls for saves vs spells / detect illusions. Are you sure about this? I've never seen anything in the maunal about it - was it left out accidently or is it from the D&D rules?
Sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt! (It's good advice, I should try it sometime! )
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=Faust]For a wizard (not a sorceror), intelligence determines spell memorization ability chance (19 is about 95%, to 18 being 85%), total number of spells you can learn (at 19 you can learn all the spells, at 18 you can learn most), and spell level you can use (with either 18 or 19 you can learn 9th level spells).
Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.
For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.[/QUOTE]
Correction: For this game only, Sorcs use Int.
Bards receive some effects from intelligence as well.
For non-intelligence charachters, the only advantages of having a high intelligence is the slight boost to the lore ability it gives, and the added defence against mindflayers (who drain intelligence). But, again, in this case there's not a lot of advantages to having a high intelligence.[/QUOTE]
Correction: For this game only, Sorcs use Int.
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I'd be pretty surprised if intelligence had any influence on saving throws. Maybe Philos confused intelligence and wisdom? Wisdom was supposed to help out in the saving throws dept. but that never got implemented in BG, 1 or 2. It was however in Icewind Dale 2 with it's 3e rules.
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[QUOTE=fable]Not in the BG series.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the refresher course. I was relying on the 3E version of the class and some misconceptions I had when playing with the Kelsey mod (as Kelsey has a very low intelligence and yet progresses fairly normallY). Yeah, it seems that in BG2 Sorceror's spell casting ability is not tied to any stat. Well, I believe intelligence is still required in order to determine if they can read/use scrolls. But no stat seems to alter or grant bonuses to their spell casting progression. Or at least that's what I get from creating 2 sorceror's (one with high, one with low, int) and,initially, from this discussion thread .
Thanks for the refresher course. I was relying on the 3E version of the class and some misconceptions I had when playing with the Kelsey mod (as Kelsey has a very low intelligence and yet progresses fairly normallY). Yeah, it seems that in BG2 Sorceror's spell casting ability is not tied to any stat. Well, I believe intelligence is still required in order to determine if they can read/use scrolls. But no stat seems to alter or grant bonuses to their spell casting progression. Or at least that's what I get from creating 2 sorceror's (one with high, one with low, int) and,initially, from this discussion thread .
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Philos
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Might Be Mistaken
Legin,
I may be confusing this with wisdom, been a while since I cracked the 2nd Ed books. But even if it is in the books, that's no guarantee it's in the game 'eh. Seemed logical since BG uses the 2nd Ed rules.
I might even be thinking back to 1st Ed.
Still you can have a decent mage without an 18 intelligence with a little help from potions. Nalia is working out fine for me and she has a 17. I also used Aerie for a while and I think she only has a 16.
Legin,
I may be confusing this with wisdom, been a while since I cracked the 2nd Ed books. But even if it is in the books, that's no guarantee it's in the game 'eh. Seemed logical since BG uses the 2nd Ed rules.
I might even be thinking back to 1st Ed.
Still you can have a decent mage without an 18 intelligence with a little help from potions. Nalia is working out fine for me and she has a 17. I also used Aerie for a while and I think she only has a 16.
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I always give my characters at least 16 intellegence if I can. This means I can take 3 hits from a mind flayer and still not be dead.
I can't understand people that take intellegence down to 3 in order to boost other stats. So what if your guy has 18 in every other stat, their not godly if a mind flayer chunks you in 1 hit.....
Also if your a theif with UAI if you don't have 16 int you cannot equip the golem book.
I can't understand people that take intellegence down to 3 in order to boost other stats. So what if your guy has 18 in every other stat, their not godly if a mind flayer chunks you in 1 hit.....
Also if your a theif with UAI if you don't have 16 int you cannot equip the golem book.
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Philos
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Each has their own style of course. Personally I always leave intelligence at least around average 9-10 if they don't have a great need for it. I have never run it down to 3 either. In real life a person with a 3 couldn't function well enough to be an adventurer. You really don't have to give characters a high intelligence just to survive the mind flayers, that's giving up some crucial points that might be better used in other areas such as con or dex (IMHO). "Most" monsters are easy if you use the right tactics. I don't want to get off topic so I won't elaborate here.
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masteralef
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There are also a few dialog options that it affects. For example, in Chapter 5, there's a mention of a creature and based on your intelligence you can give different names for the creature. I don't remember off the top of my head which are affected by wisdom, by intelligence, and by charisma, but a particularly amusing fellow guarding a chest can be convinced to let you look inside without fighting, and a sequence that can upset your romance partners can also be changed. They're all rather minor compared to how it works in PST or NWN, though, and none of them require anything above...I think 16, but I could be wrong.
You would need an intelligence score of 20 to gain the +5 bonus to int. checks.
In my dealings with Illithid, don't they always drain you to int. of three (if you fail the saving throw) and then the second failed saving throw kills you?
J
In my dealings with Illithid, don't they always drain you to int. of three (if you fail the saving throw) and then the second failed saving throw kills you?
J
Fifteen birds in five firtrees,
Their feathers were fanned in a fiery breeze!
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Their feathers were fanned in a fiery breeze!
But, funny little birds, they had no wings!
O what shall we do with the funny little things?
[QUOTE=JJComo]You would need an intelligence score of 20 to gain the +5 bonus to int. checks.
J[/QUOTE]
Int checks?
Mind flayers drain you by 5 intellegence each time they hit you.
Sure, you can beat the mind flayers with 3 int, but thats more a bother then I care go to. Also since I usually roll untill I get a lot of points, I always have 18 str / dex / con ( or 16 if I'm not a fighting class ) AND enough for 16 int. Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int.
J[/QUOTE]
Int checks?
Mind flayers drain you by 5 intellegence each time they hit you.
Sure, you can beat the mind flayers with 3 int, but thats more a bother then I care go to. Also since I usually roll untill I get a lot of points, I always have 18 str / dex / con ( or 16 if I'm not a fighting class ) AND enough for 16 int. Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int.
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=masteralef]There are also a few dialog options that it affects. For example, in Chapter 5, there's a mention of a creature and based on your intelligence you can give different names for the creature. I don't remember off the top of my head which are affected by wisdom, by intelligence, and by charisma, but a particularly amusing fellow guarding a chest can be convinced to let you look inside without fighting, and a sequence that can upset your romance partners can also be changed. They're all rather minor compared to how it works in PST or NWN, though, and none of them require anything above...I think 16, but I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]
The chest guardian is effected by Wisdom. I once had a Paladin w/ an Int score below 10 and 14 Wisdom and I still got the easier dialogue option.
The chest guardian is effected by Wisdom. I once had a Paladin w/ an Int score below 10 and 14 Wisdom and I still got the easier dialogue option.
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Philos
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Choice between Int & Cha
TinyMage,
You said "Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int."
Not disagreeing with you, just some food for thought, but Charisma has its uses too. Depending on who you plan to use for your NPC companions, you might want to buff your PC's charisma. Having a high charisma sure saves bunches with the merchants. Especially early on when the gold is a little scarcer. My PC is a paladin and has a couple of charisma enhancing items (which appear to stack interestingly enough) and is getting huge discounts from the merchants. I know a mage can use the "Friends" spell, but it's way more convenient to not have to rely on a spell.
I have only faced mind flayers in the sewers. But they really aren't much of a bother. I just don't let them hit me, really not much trouble to prevent it. Can't lose intelligence if they don't hit.
TinyMage,
You said "Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int."
Not disagreeing with you, just some food for thought, but Charisma has its uses too. Depending on who you plan to use for your NPC companions, you might want to buff your PC's charisma. Having a high charisma sure saves bunches with the merchants. Especially early on when the gold is a little scarcer. My PC is a paladin and has a couple of charisma enhancing items (which appear to stack interestingly enough) and is getting huge discounts from the merchants. I know a mage can use the "Friends" spell, but it's way more convenient to not have to rely on a spell.
I have only faced mind flayers in the sewers. But they really aren't much of a bother. I just don't let them hit me, really not much trouble to prevent it. Can't lose intelligence if they don't hit.
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fable
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[QUOTE=Philos]TinyMage,
You said "Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int."
Not disagreeing with you, just some food for thought, but Charisma has its uses too. Depending on who you plan to use for your NPC companions, you might want to buff your PC's charisma.[/QUOTE]
Why bother, when one of the easiest and earliest artifacts you can get is a ring that raises your Charisma to 18?
You said "Its just a tossup between int and charisma for me, and I go for int."
Not disagreeing with you, just some food for thought, but Charisma has its uses too. Depending on who you plan to use for your NPC companions, you might want to buff your PC's charisma.[/QUOTE]
Why bother, when one of the easiest and earliest artifacts you can get is a ring that raises your Charisma to 18?
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