Building a New Party...

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:31 pm

good ideas, raven song.

I may just run a dwarf fXpal2. I would add the monk1 level and test out the abilities...

monk 1 should give:
evasion
+2 to Every save

according to the manual the speed only comes in at level 3 (i doubt you get that in armor).

As far as the problem of the wisdom of 3? well I'll have a charisma of 20 with the paladin quest so thats +5 to will saves, right? The 3 is only a -4 to will saves so it is as if he had a 12 in wisdom.

To raise wisdom I have to lower something right? I can't lower charisma as that would hurt the will save anyhow (not to mention the reflex and fort). I could lower strength, dex, or con...imo that would be overly paranoid that this guy is going to get charmed (he does have a +5 to all saves).

I think the big question is whether or not you should lose the 1 BAB just to get evasion (I'm just playing normal where that 1 can matter) and saves +2.

Rogue3 is another cool option...

*evasion
*BUT no bonus to Every saves (do I need this?)
*backstab!! (but this guy is to be the main tank. How often will he flank?)

Also, you mention SR... This guy will wield the cera sumat so he gets that too.

Anyhow I will see how often he gets charmed

(my barb wisdom 10 got charmed constantly)

myro

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:39 am

I thought only WIS affected Will saves.

No backstab in IWDII- Sneak Attack. But that's probably what you meant.
Change your party formation around a bit so that character isn't the first to be noticed by the enemy and flanking should be easy.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 am

Yes it does but the character has paladin levels so the CHA modifier will affect all the saving throws.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:21 am

Hmm. Didn't know about CHA affecting all saving throws. That's good isn't it?

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:22 am

Sneaky way of min/maxing, huh? the charisma only benefits a paladin though so you cannot trash the wisdom of say a wizard.

myro

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:35 am

Sure is!

Once made a female drow decoy/healer type character

paladin (2) / monk (3) / cleric (X)

STR 06 DEX 20 CON 16 INT 06 WIS 18 CHA 14

Now her saving throws were impressive

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:58 am

Looks like a sweet character...I wish you could be a dreadmaster "anti-paladin"...

what sphere? Ilmater?

myro

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:59 am

If you want 'anti-paladin', Ilmater's good-aligned. Try Bane or Cyric (I think Cyric is one of the spheres).

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:21 am

No bard in this party, myro?

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:32 am

@Ravager...

No bard as of yet...

figher, monk, rogue, cleric

(basicly with mixins)

And 2 more of the following:

sorceror?
mage?
bard?
druid?
archer?
tank?
spellsword?

I'm so indecisive and have also scrapped about 3 chars...

myro

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:45 am

yes the drow was Ilmateran it made sense seeing as all three came with Ilmateran sub-classes.

Also think about a druid/bard as one of your characters. I believe Silverdragon has a template in the powergaming guide.

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:59 am

Also think about a druid/bard as one of your characters. I believe Silverdragon has a template in the powergaming guide.

Yeah, thats an intrigueing mix (the druid/bard). The problem is thaWt i am only playing normal mode. Kayless would string me up if I split between 2 casting classes for the normal mode.

I could make a bard1/druidx? or bard1/???x where ??? is cleric, wizard, or sorceror as well...

but I'm not sure if that 1 bard song is worth losing spells?

So I've got: fighter, cleric, monk, rogue, sorceror, ??? (the sorceror could potentially fulfill the talker & loreist role BUT if not I could lower the intelligence of the sorcerer...)

Who is that mystery 6th member? Maybe I'll try 5 instead?

myrophine

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:06 am

Why not build a second sorcerer with maybe 5 levels of bard (thus gaining access to tymora's melody) to specifically fill the talker/loreist role?

To have enough skill points to cover both roles s/he is goging to need both high intelligence and charisma, meaning that once s/he has run out of spells s/he is not going to be much use with a crossbow as DEX will be at best average. But with the bard levels s/he can still contribute to battle (tymora's melody is better than most of the higher level effects)

Also the bard/sorcerer could make better use of spell focus Enchantment/Transmutation focusing more on disabling/charming allowing the other sorc to focus on blasting and elemental feats.

Or if you want a support character you could do the opposite and go for Bard (11) Sorcerer (whatever is left) again focusing on Enchantments/Transmutation

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:24 am

Since I want to emphasize intelligence...

What do you think of a bard/necromancer?

Human for extra skill points and option of adding fighter...

str8dex14con18int18(to cover 1+1+4 skills)Wis6Ch12

level1Bard (start) ----> Bard1/Wizard1 (for sleep spells in early levels).

----> Bard5/Wizard1 ----squat during ice temple ---> Bard5/Wizard7

Also are you saying to leave the sorceror away from the talking to conserve his skill points or to allow a pally level?

myro

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:33 am

BTW I wonder if the designers of 3E playtested the bard char?

Its always touted as so versatile a character. But with a point buyout system you need every stat but wis and then your int will be mediocre and you can't buy any of your feats (at least we don't need perform in IWD2...of course we can't morph into red dragons either

)

At this stage I'm uncertain i need tymoras melody...

myro

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:40 am

I wouldn't entirely suggest a Bard/Wizard. You'd have enough skill points, but your character wouldn't have much in the line of good skills in either department.

Either class alone with high INT should cover skills such as 'Knowledge (Arcana)' & 'Spellcraft' (particularly with Bardic Knowledge). Single-class wizards are the undisputed masters of the 'Alchemy' skill, which will help in identifying magical potions you find along the way.

My advice: Don't bother multi-classing two spellcasting classes, other than possibly Paladin w/ Cleric (if of Ilmater), Wizard (Mystra), or sorcerer.

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:53 am

@ Galuf

I tend to agree with your advice on caster multi-classing (for normal mode).

I decided on making the sorceror both the diplomat AND the loreist. So I have room for a 6th member who can be as dumb and ugly as sin or as beautiful and brilliant as the sorceror!

so far

Pal2FighterX (maybe monk depending what abilities stay in armor) - dwarf

MonkX - half orc

Ranger1Monk1DemarchX - human

Rogue X - Drow

Sorceror X (no pally to get rewards) - human

??? Mr. Mystery??? I'm leaning towards BardXFighterY (don't need talking so I can go for it on fighting presence) - Bard5fighter4 will be a sweet spot level to squat at

myrophine

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:12 am

myrophine wrote:Pal2FighterX (maybe monk depending what abilities stay in armor) - dwarf

Actually, I'd suggest a PalX Fighter 4 in this case. Unless they're single-class, characters w/ Fighter levels are mostly best going to lvl 4 and not much higher. Sure, less bonus feats that way, but you'll still obtain a number of feats along the way, especially if you take your party in Heart of Fury mode. I suppose you're going with a Gold Dwarf for race, in this case?

MonkX - half orc

Should work.

Ranger1Monk1DemarchX - human

In this case, I really suggest single-class in Demarch of Mask. Those other two levels sound like a waste.

Rogue X - Drow

Same with the Half-Orc.

Sorceror X (no pally to get rewards) - human

Yeah, should be fine. Just keep their Charisma high, as well as their Int if this one's going to be your member who identifies magical items.

??? Mr. Mystery??? I'm leaning towards BardXFighterY (don't need talking so I can go for it on fighting presence) - Bard5fighter4 will be a sweet spot level to squat at

The Bard's chief ability if their Bard Songs, so keeping CHA low may hinder his/her effectiveness (also prevents them from casting any spells). High stats (Dex, Int, Cha) make the Bard function properly. Otherwise, that class is the closest thing to a wimp.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:22 am

RE: The sorcerer - yes the idea of the sorcerer/bard was to conserve skill points for the pure sorcerer - allowing him to focus on spellcraft and concentration thus not wasting vital skill points on intelligence.

As your party stands at the moment

Adding monk to dwarf probably not such a good idea - no real advantages

Drow (male) has wizard as a favoured class. A build such as Rogue (2) Wizard (X) will be far more useful than a pure rogue, and with 20 will be more than able to cover your theiving needs

Half-Orcs make decent tank-clerics (of Tempus or Helm) which are for more useful than monks (pure class monks are greatly overrated). With a half-orc cleric your human could change into a Ranger/Monk/Druid

(one of my favourite ever builds)

myrophine · Post by **myrophine** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:29 am

In this case, I really suggest single-class in Demarch of Mask. Those other two levels sound like a waste

.

For me its partially practical and partly the fact that this character captivates me...

Keep in mind that its a human so no ECL penalty. And I do get something:

* dual wielding
* stealth (use that demarch +1 bonus)
* evasion
* no need for armor

Comment: I take the ranger level 1st so I can dual wield bastard swords (weidu modded) with a short sword.

Comment: I take the monk level not untill I get an item that raises wisdom +5.

Comment: I have min/maxed stats so the char is truly a beast!

PalXfighter4? Ok I'll do that BUT I've min/maxed so that I can't cast the spells! Also I can't take the monk levels and harden my will saves plus give evasion.

myro

min/max/min/max