Building a New Party...

[myrophine]

Adding monk to dwarf probably not such a good idea - no real advantages

I respectfully disagree. I lose one BAB which is not good. I lose 2 hp. I gain evasion which will be boosted by divine grace . Also the basic saves of a monk are awsome and the most benefit is reaped at level 1 :+2,+2,+2 to all saves!!!

Drow (male) has wizard as a favoured class. A build such as Rogue (2) Wizard (X) will be far more useful than a pure rogue, and with 20 will be more than able to cover your theiving needs

I agree that a wizrogue can cover the thieving bases. BUT I wanna whack things WAAAHHHH!! MASSIVE HALBERD OF HATE hoo hoo ha ha. Plus I've played a wizard and find that they are not as good as the sorceror...

Half-Orcs make decent tank-clerics (of Tempus or Helm) which are for more useful than monks (pure class monks are greatly overrated). With a half-orc cleric your human could change into a Ranger/Monk/Druid (one of my favourite ever builds)

But then lord mask would get angry with me!? He'd send the shadow things into my dreams again...

myrophine

btw - my party is all monks! they met at a convention...(and invited the sorceroress and rogue too)

[Raven_Song]

I respectfully disagree. I lose one BAB which is not good. I lose 2 hp. I gain evasion which will be boosted by divine grace . Also the basic saves of a monk are awsome and the most benefit is reaped at level 1 :+2,+2,+2 to all saves!!!

We'll have to agree to disagree (I'm not a big fan of monks in general)

I agree that a wizrogue can cover the thieving bases. BUT I wanna whack things WAAAHHHH!! MASSIVE HALBERD OF HATE hoo hoo ha ha. Plus I've played a wizard and find that they are not as good as the sorceror...

Ok but pure rogues aren't exactly known for their whacking ability. Perhaps a duergar fighter/rogue? Plus dueargar are slightly more sturdy than drow.

Wizards vs Sorcerers I'm for wizards (I just really don't enjoy playing sorcerers despite the obvious advantages )

But then lord mask would get angry with me!? He'd send the shadow things into my dreams again...

Aah I'm a Selunite my dreams are full of happy shiny people all around

[myrophine]

Yep I made a 6th guy...

I needed him to be chaotic to wield chaotic bastard swords. And dual wield...
Plus I'd heard that barb/druids rock.

Note: I'm intentionally gimping the character with MCing so that the druid weidu mod won't take over the whole game (of course I'll eventually get red dragon shape still )

Barbarian1Ranger1DruidX str16dex18con18int3wis18ch3

His name is Winds' Sorrow - (a tribesman of the old people)

myrophine

[myrophine]

on the monks...

actually I have NEVER played a monk before so maybe I'll be sad!

Ok but pure rogues aren't exactly known for their whacking ability. Perhaps a duergar fighter/rogue? Plus dueargar are slightly more sturdy than drow

.

Hmm...depends what you mean? A rogue is a slasher hit n run.... The first hit has no -5 penalty as subsequent hits do so even though you only have rogue BAB progression you will still hit (especially if you pump your strength).

The duergar pure rogue would also be good but I would fear the hostile magic a whole lot more (no SR). Plus duergar is also the same ECL penalty and all they can do vs. a dwarf is move silently and invisibility x1.

A duergar F4RX has more HP (16) more BAB (1) more feats (4 if counting free halberds). But they LOSE 7 damage per hit (on average) from sneak attack. And their evasion save is not as good while their fortitude save is better...

Also it takes them a lot longer to gain slippery mind which is pretty decent.

STILL I think you might be right <shrugs>. If they had SR I'd say yes in a heartbeat...


maybe a duergar rogue/monk (just kidding).

Well Lord Talos just sent me a message he ha

myro

[Ravager]

Checked my strategy guide. No mention of paladins getting CHA bonus to saving throws, just to AC. That saving throw bonus does exist in NWN though, so maybe you're getting confused.
My guide is rarely wrong...

Monks seem to get some good stuff, one I didn't know about was the ability to cast Dimension Door 1/day from 12th level (I think it's 12th).

[Aerich]

Um, Ravager?

Paladins get Cha bonus to saves. You can work it out from the saves on the Record screen of a first level paladin.

Monks don't get the Dimension Door ability - DD is not supported in IWD2, so it isn't available.

I support the single-class monk. By far the best monk build (up to level 20) is the deep gnome - it gets +4 generic AC bonus, innate goodies like Mirror Image and Blur, and increased stat max in Wis and Dex at the expense of Str and Cha. I am very happy with mine. Midway through the game, using spells, it can be buffed to ~40 AC. With Stoneskin, it takes almost no damage.

[Ravager]

Maybe my guide is wrong, then. I've been conned.

I agree about the single-class monk (at least in Normal mode). If you extend to HoF you should be able to get all the monk abilities plus a few levels in other classes.

[myrophine]

My guide is rarely wrong...

Yes, but myro is NEVER wrong! j/k

@ Raven Song

You Win! I changed my party...

I scrapped the orc monk - axes

replaced with duergar rogue1 (to add fighter levels later...) - axes

Then I fealt that the portrait of the drow was sooo sweeet (the blue man in the swirling orange cape) that I had to make a drow...

so I made a diviner1 (to add fighter levels later...) will wield the massive halberd of hate with tensors, fire shields, MI, Death Armor etc... but so far he just has bow feats...

He can also handle the lore stuff...

Now my sorceror has better stats Now I know the shiny ones again

myro

[Raven_Song]

Actually Ravager if you're using the same guide I've got Prima's Official Strategy Guide than I'd be very wary as there is quite a bit of duff information in there. Such as

While aasimars can pursue any class other than monk

Like aasimars, tieflings can pursue any class other than monk

Only humans can be monks

(obviously excluding Aasimar and Tieflings)

Charisma is important for many druid skills

- that would be animal empathy one of the most pointless skills in the game

Strength, Constitution and Wisdom don't need to be high, articularly Wisdom. After, all if rogues had any common sense, they wouldn't be rogues.

- If the writers of this guide had any sense they'd realise there little rogue would be vulnerable to spells using will saves!

They also fail to mention that abjurer specialist mages lose Transmutation as a school as well as illusion.

@ Myrophine you won't regret it.

One of the main reasons I scrapped my last party (Barb/Fighter, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Rogue/Enchanter, Sorcerer) at the end of the Ice Temple was because of the general uselessness of my monk. Quite frankly I'd rather have taken a ranger along for all the use she was, both my cleric and druid had higher kills and the rogue/enchanter was only ten or so behind the monk

[myrophine]

I think a Half - Orc monk with str 20 + 7 + 5-8 (champions str) dex18 con16 int1 wis18 ch1...would have LOTS of kills (thats what I was planning). Anything susceptible to fists would receive many attack beating and anything else would receive reasonable attack # beating from an axe...

What do you think on a Half-Orc str monk build?

btw, I've read that monks don't come into their own untill later...In the beginning DON'T use the fists!

My decision was based on your argument for a duergar fighter/rogue...

But I couldn't live without the sweet looking drow portrait..

Myro

[Ravager]

Monks do more damage with weapons until their fist damage increases later on. A half-orc monk should be alright. No penalty to WIS, CON or DEX.

[myrophine]

Duergar is terrible compared to deep gnome!

yep thats what i think. you get: +2 every save, +4 generic ac, SR, non - detection, blurx1, MIx1, darkvision, search +2, HS +2 in sun (rather than -2 for a duergar) +4 in dark. You have favored class illusionist which synergizes well with a high intelligence.

My deep gnome rogue/illusionist is gonna rock!

myro

dwarven paladin/fighter/monk - how a dwarf got to be a paladin? Dunno..ask helm for gods sake...

half-orc monkX - escapes slavery to get to black raven monastery?

Deep Gnome Rogue/Illusionist - Merchant who makes deal (for a profit) with a pit fighter slave in return for freeing said slave. Always pretends to be a meek little smurfneblin...

Drow BarbarianX - Pit fighter rescued by deep gnome (see above) in return for knowledge about his house (sold to the highest bidder)...

gnome and drow are on the run... Hide out in Black Raven Monastery... There they are exposed by inquisitor of helm (dwarf). But half - orc student points out that founder of monastery was also a pit fighter and they agree to take them to 10 towns...

meanwhile in the city of Luskan...

Greyda Kirstov sorceror and former student (hence high int/lore) is being hunted by the mages of the Hostower of Luskan...

They have hired bounty hunter Teira Halsen Ranger1 to catch her...

but this is not their day. Teira is a double agent trained by the church of mask who's power in most cities of faerun is kept hidden (especially from the hosttower!).

Teira stears Greyda in the direction of Targos to escape with her and investigate the activities of the legion of the chimera.

Their boat almost sinks but luckily the brawny arm of a half orc hoists the two swimmers out of the water before the icy water does them in.

Who will stear the course of this fated band? The stern dwarven pilgrim? The agent of mask? The budding sorceror? The drow pit fighter who has learned nothing but survival? Perhaps the shifty and slightly crazy svirfneblin?
the half-orc is striving to maintain her disciplined training in the face of the call of her blood...

What an unlikely band of misfits!

stay tuned!

[Ravager]

Actually Ravager if you're using the same guide I've got Prima's Official Strategy Guide than I'd be very wary as there is quite a bit of duff information in there.

Yep, that's my guide. I'm obviously going to have to more suspicious of the class info. in there.

Duergar Fighters are able to make an excellent weapon in the Mind Flayer Citadel. And they have quite a lot of nice abilities.

[myrophine]

I don't agree about the duergar...

You eventually get better items (than the weapon at citadel).

+s: MS +4, invisibility x1 (I'm not counting the dwarf bonuses as you COULD just be a shield dwarf to get those (without the minuses),

-s: day blindness -1 hit/damage/save AND -2 skills, blinded by all sorts of spells, ECL penalty.

I would only think about it if NO ECL penalty...

myro

[Ravager]

Yeah, the ECL is a pain. Maybe it overcompensates for that race's abilities.