New Game Started, Need Advice

yaanathn · Post by **yaanathn** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:52 am

My new group, more neutral than my first (which was good) is probably going to consist of these characters;

- Quellin, Archer, who's elvish so he can still do alright with dualing long swords.
- Jaheira, Fighter/Druid, my cleric(ish) character, who will eventually be alright with a scimitar and shield, I hope. Will try to romance her, too (advice or a link to an extensive guide with advice would be much appreciated).
- Keldorn, Inquisitor, was also in my original party, but come on! Holy Avenger, magic dispeller and true seeing! His meleeing ability never compared to the rest of my melees, though (My main, Minsc, and Sarevok)...
- Jan, Illusionist/Thief, both my thief and mage, need him to fill up what the group lacks.
- Mazzy, Fighter, want to try her out, plus I need a fighter in the group, too. Now my group is very diverse in terms of races and classes, yay!

I'm wondering, should I add Minsc or possibly Anomen to the group? I'm very tempted to get a character who will wield the powerful warhammers in the game, or the Flail of the Ages, or even just the Mace of Disruption. However, this will mean that each individual character will receive less experience all around. This is my main dilemma for the moment.

In need of help,
Quellin, level 8 Archer

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:09 am

Jaheira is going to be hobbled for most of the game (in ToB) by the rotten Druidic XP table. She will *not* be able to function as your primary cleric effectively until you hit 6million XP and for a party this size, that is near the end of the game (if you even get that far). She is still good, however, as those druidic spells are nice....be she is no primary cleric.

As such, take Anomen. He is a good tank AND he is a good cleric (assuming he passed his knighthood test).

-Polaris

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:09 am

Jaheira is going to be hobbled for most of the game (in ToB) by the rotten Druidic XP table. She will *not* be able to function as your primary cleric effectively until you hit 6million XP and for a party this size, that is near the end of the game (if you even get that far). She is still good, however, as those druidic spells are nice....but she is no primary cleric.

As such, take Anomen. He is a good tank AND he is a good cleric (assuming he passed his knighthood test).

-Polaris

Dezarond the Red · Post by **Dezarond the Red** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:17 am

Skrew both of them, i would take korgan with a grand mastery in axes,he can also qualify as your ranged attack with a throwing axe..but between those two i would probaly choose minsc but anomen quest is kinda cool so whichever is a good choice!

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:21 am

Take Anomen, for his Undead-blasting power, and cleric spells.

Zhar · Post by **Zhar** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:43 am

imho,
Korgan (fan of him you know ?)
- berserking he cannot be drained, imprisonned... 5 slots in axe.
Ranged weapon+melee in one skill.
With boots of speed he can do all the fight alone.
- Minsc: ** in 2-handed sword + i specialized him in mace for disruption.
So i get 2 PCs resisting drain level.
(plus the mage with Amulet of Power)

I gave both a slot in long sword/flail for hiting resisting monsters...

- 2 PCs are me as a sorcerer and my friend a Swashbuckler : ** in wakisaki+katana (scarlet and Celestial Fury) + *** in dual wielding.
She's my universal detector/robber/(un)trapper. And a help in melee.

- Last slots occupied by Jaheira (didn't play with her in first party) - resurrector

- And of course Edwin

Resume:
2 ranged/melee tank
1 detector/razor
2 sorcerer/mage in middle line
1 druid/fighter in backline

Zhar

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:56 am

Zhar,

To each his own, but when you run into those mindflayers, you are going to *regret* not having a full-fledged cleric in the party. When facing Mind-flayers, Chaotic-Commands is a *must* *have* spell. Now Jaheira can memorize enough for small groups (3 or less), but with a group this size, you NEED a single classed cleric (and even a single classed druid doesn't do very well...I *know*).

As such, I would seriously reconsider giving Anomen or Viconia a spot on your party (depending on alignment).

-Polaris

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:57 am

Anomen will do great in that party. To bad Keldorn needs the Gauntlets of Dex, but Anomen can always use a shield with his flail or hammer.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:01 am

Originally posted by Astafas:
Anomen will do great in that party. To bad Keldorn needs the Gauntlets of Dex, but Anomen can always use a shield with his flail or hammer.

I always give Keldorn the Gauntlets, and Anomen the best shield available. Just make sure Anomen passes his test, or he and Keldorn will have problems.

Zhar · Post by **Zhar** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:38 am

Korgan has the gantlet of DEX.

For Minflayers, Edwin summons undeads, they are brainless so imune to telepaths.
A skeleton warriors do the jobs.
There is also some weapons protecting from domination.
Cleric stay at church. Korgan cleans up.

Zhar

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:49 am

Originally posted by Zhar:
Korgan has the gantlet of DEX.

For Minflayers, Edwin summons undeads, they are brainless so imune to telepaths.
A skeleton warriors do the jobs.
There is also some weapons protecting from domination.
Cleric stay at church. Korgan cleans up.
Zhar

I really don't think Korgan is neccessary here - there is already more than enough fighters in yaanathn's party. Some variation makes a much better game and although a cleric is not strictly necessary (as proven by the fact that you can solo with any class), he surely comes in very handy in many situations. The fact that you can manage without a cleric is no argument for that you should manage without a cleric.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:51 am

I just send in the Mordenkainen's Swords to do the job, after getting the mind flayers' attention with an earthquake or two.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:22 am

Ok, you *can* defeat mindflayers w/o chaotic commands, but that is *really* hard. Chaotic commands makes beating Mindflayers *so* much easier (and it is not as though you get more XP doing it the hard way).

IMO a cleric is *essential* if you are running a large party. I suppose you *can* live without one...but I wouldn't care to try it. Now for smaller parties or solo, clerics are a lot less useful.

-Polaris

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:29 am

Originally posted by polaris:
Now for smaller parties or solo, clerics are a lot less useful.

Check [url="http://ericathecleric.homestead.com/"]this[/url].

Zhar · Post by **Zhar** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:38 am

Dont forget that party regenerates with Casomyr and the stolen ring of regeneration.

Sure, to face Mindflayers Korgan is useless except than he always wants to slice montsers...

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:42 am

Sojourner,

I stand by what I said (the site is down btw), but you said it yourself: ANY character class *can* solo, but that doesn't mean that all are equally capable.

The cleric is a great class, but I find that the cleric *really* shines in large groups where those multiple healing spells and protections (Neg Plane Prot, Chaotic Commands, Death Ward, etc) *really* start to pay big dividends.

In smaller groups, a cleric is really a weak fighter with blunt weapons that can cast some good (but not overwhelming) spells...*if* they don't get interrupted (cleric spells are universally slow).

Sorry, I am not convinced I am wrong on this.

-Polaris

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:47 am

Zhar,

That ring will only help *one* character and while the regen is fast, it is NOT fast enough to do much good in combat...and clerics are much more than healing...they are about protections. A cleric can KEEP your party from being stunned when facing mindflayers. That is worth the price of admission right there. In addition Casomyr does NOT regenerate.

I will give a better counter-example: Clerics get 7th level spells at a ridiculously low level and XP (14th level and 1.35 million XP). Did you realize that if a cleric casts Greater Restoration in combat (and it is a FAST SPELL), then the ENTIRE PARTY is not only cured of poison, disease, and level drained, but *also* restored to full hit points as well? You may as well call that spell 'Mass Heal'.

-Polaris

Zhar · Post by **Zhar** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:10 am

Mass Heal is good.
How i regenerate ?
Put the ring while walking...
While in combat, use some potions. That as always been enough.
If one PC dies, i've Jaheira for ressurecting him (that's hurt i know), and Marvellous Recall.
Enough until now...

Falanen · Post by **Falanen** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 9:11 am

The Illithids are not difficult when you have a few tanks with 1 or below saving throws. I don't know which save the Psionic Blast uses, but I do know that low saves will prevent stunning. Of course, there are a few times when you will get stunned, but it isn't a big problem if your fighters can hack down the Illithids quickly.

The Umber Hulk confusion is pretty harmless with low saves, too, so there shouldn't be any big problem.

I agree with polaris in that you will need Chaotic Commands when you have a large group (if you bring your whole party), but if you just send in your fighters, the Illithids will be much much easier.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 9:13 am

Originally posted by polaris:


Sorry, I am not convinced I am wrong on this.

-Polaris

What else is new?

Is a cleric valuable...yes...does that mean you have to have a straight-up cleric...no. If someone doesn't want to play with one in their party, then they don't have to, and i'm sure they'll be fine. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and with a little exploring of those traits, and maybe a little enginuity, I very much believe any combination of characters can work. I know it's hard for you to accept that your way of playing the game is not the only way, and you DEFINITELY won't admit it might not be the best way, but one of these days you should really try to get over yourself.

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: average joe ]