Dilemna Between the Little People

shylaman · Post by **shylaman** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:45 am

Ok I just played through BGI/II with a Totemic Druid I dualed to a fighter at level 12. I was going to do Avenger, but at the last minute while reading through old post decided to go with a Totemic. I must say I really enjoyed them. I always like Druids. My first character many moons ago was a Figher dualed to a Druid.

Anyhow, I kept getting hit with spells and boom my PC would be out of the fight in ome dazed state or another. So, I want some better saving throws and decided on going with a Halfling or a Gnome. Not only saving throws, but also wanted something different. (Bad thing is I liek Bards and wanted to play one again after stopping in the Underdark a year or two ago with my Blade. Blades rule by the way. Also, like Rangers, but no Halflings or Gnomes). So my two main choices are between a Halfling F/T and a Gnome T/Illusionist. What are the opinions of others? Need some pros and cons each way. I want to start in BG I probably and by the time I am in BGII take Viconia and Haer Dalis in addition to unknown others. I have never used either one.

So which sounds best?

SP101 · Post by **SP101** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:14 am

Well.... the Gnome Thief/Illusionist is only Jan Jansen's clone... without his special item (armor, gloves, spectroscopes, flasher, etc.)... so I would go with the Fighter/Thief. A swashbuckler could also do the same job.. and will end with an even lower AC. He will also ends with a greater amount of traps/thieving skills.

The only things you may find missing :
- Chains & Plate armors <-- But you won't be able to use these with your thieving skills anyway...
- Fighters-only weapons (Halberds, Two Handed Swords, etc.)
- Backstab damages (x5), wich may (not) be a considerable loss if you want to play in ToB.. since most dangerous foes are immune to backstab (Golems, Undeads, Beholders, Mages, Dragons, etc.). It's still useful against monsters such as mindflayers.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:18 am

Illusionists will be prohibited from memorising spells of the opposite school and as SP101 says there is already one available to join in your party.

The benefits of a F/T are to be able to use better ranged weaponry - e.g. Longbow, Crossbow. Extra HP- able to support himself/hefself better in combat.
And no need to get a weaker character to do the theiving parts for you.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:57 am

SP101 is right. If there are two different classes you would like to play and one of them is represented by an NPC, you can play them both by taking the NPC and making the other one your main character. Jan Jansen is a great character, and he's everything a gnomish Illusionist/Thief should be. And a halfling Fighter/Thief would be a great main character.

A Fighter/Thief can use the Shield of Harmony, which will fend off mind attacks. There are also many other items, potions, and spells that will protect your characters against Charm, Hold, Fear, etc. Spells such as Resist Fear and Remove Fear are very useful. So are Chaotic Commands, Free Action, Negative Plane Protection, and Death Ward.

When it comes to saving throws and resistance to mind attacks, Paladins are the best. But I don't know if that's a class you'd want to play. One of the NPCs is an Inquisitor (Keldorn).

If you start with a Fighter/Thief, Haer'Dalis, Viconia, and Jan, that's a pretty good party. Are there any other NPCs or classes you know you would like to have in your party besides Haer'Dalis and Viconia? If you added a heavily armored melee character (Minsc, Korgan, Keldorn, Mazzy, Jaheira, etc.) and a single-class or dual-class Mage who can cast higher level spells than Jan (such as Edwin, Imoen, or a custom NPC like Tashia, Kelsey, Tsujatha, etc.) you'd have a very powerful party.

One thing to consider is that certain NPCs interact with each other. For example, Haer'Dalis and Aerie are especially interested in each other. Some of the NPCs will also be romantically attracted to your main character if you meet the racial requirements. For example, Aerie will be interested in your character if you play an elf, a half-elf, or a gnome. Viconia will be interested if you play a half-elf or a human. Aerie and Viconia will even fight over your character if both of them are interested in you.

There are also certain combinations of characters it is best to avoid. For example, Keldorn and Viconia don't get along, and Aerie and Korgan don't get along.

shylaman · Post by **shylaman** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:52 am

I knew about Jan. I wanted to take him either this time or next. I have never used him much and I hear he is a good NPC, with good banter. Usually I don't like doubling up when an NPC is available, but the class combo seemed cool.

I don't like Paladins, too goody-goody for my tastes. I took Adjantis through BG1 and had Keldorn when I played my Blade through till the Underdark. I do need a tank though and I hate Anomen (so annoying), I always use Minsc, I just used Valygar and Mazzy, and I didn't want to use Jaheira with Viconia. I wanted to use her next time. I already romanced Aerie, I want to try all three. So I guess I am using Korgan. I think I want to play Lawful Evil anyway, so that might work. So Viccy, Jan, Haer Dalis, Korgan, and my PC. Hmmm, may not have enough tanks and mage. Starting and chooing what to roleplay is always the hardest part.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:21 pm

Just something to consider. A gnome illusionist (illusionist/thief) is the only way you are going to get a natural 19 intelligence. The Jan Clone thing would be much more of an issue if Jan had a 19 intellegence. Additionally I end up replacing all of his special items with better things so I won't keep hearing 'don't forget to raise me'. - Curdis !

sdwillie · Post by **sdwillie** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:14 am

If you're going to play with Korgan and Haer Dalis the best mage for you is Aerie-great interaction between those three as long as you have her and Korgan in the party BEFORE you get Haer Dalis.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:09 pm

Well, if you want to play lawful evil ... you can't chose thief. If you'd play NE as well, here's my opinion: My all time favorite PC happened to be a NE halfling F/T and I can really recommend this class. Team up with Korgan, Edwin and Viconia and you'll get a very strong and fun to play party. Pros? Lots of fun, great dialogue in the party, incredibly versatile PC. Cons? None.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:12 pm

[QUOTE=Phantom Lord]Well, if you want to play lawful evil ... you can't chose thief. [/QUOTE]
Why not?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:26 am

Thieves can't be lawful. It's an example of the strange restrictions that were implemented in the game.
Another example are the restrictions for races. Why couldn't a Halfling be a bard? In those cases, I don't think using a game editor is cheating. Shylaman could create a Halfling Blade that way.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:57 pm

If Thieves can't be Lawful in Baldur's Gate, then it's a mistake. I don't like playing thieves, so I've never experimented with creating them too much, but in AD&D, the only alignment restriction on thieves is that they can not be lawful GOOD. They can be Lawful Neutral or Evil.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:20 am

I stand corrected. Thieves can't be lawful good.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:49 am

Can gnomes be Fighter/Thieves? That would be best, as gnomes have better thieving skills.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:23 pm

It's Halflings that have the best thieves skills.

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:11 pm

[QUOTE=Coot]It's Halflings that have the best thieves skills.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, it's them I was thinking of, as a manual check reveals that dwarves are better than gnomes...