The "Romances"

Lorgath · Post by **Lorgath** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:46 pm

I've got no trouble getting the romances in BG2 to work, but I don't think that they're quite as well thought out as they could be. Allow me to elaborate.

First, Jaheira: does anyone else think that it's a bit weird that she falls in love with the player character so quickly after her husband(!) has been horribly murdered by a psychopath? While it may seem like you're doing a lot in the game, it isn't too many game days before she starts expressing an interest in her own, slightly crazed and sarcastic way.

Why, oh WHY did they make Aerie so whiney? Yes, I know she had her wings sawn off by some very nasty people and she cant ever fly again, but surely wings could have been replaced by a restoration spell, or a wish spell? Argh, and her voice...

Ye gads, and then there's Anomen. With my female character (don't snigger

), I could hardly belive the amount of moaning she had to cope with to win her man's love. I ditched him and then went off to decapitate things in relative peace, so maybe the romance gets better later on.

Finally, there's Viconia. She's the best looking and the most interesting-sounding, but as I really don't like playing evil characters I never tried to go down that route.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love BG2. I think that some of the dialogue is brilliant and the plot is wonderfully deep (though it isn't a patch on Planescape Torment), but the "Oh no, my husband is dead/my wings fell off/I-want-to-be-great-but-I'm-so-blatantly-not! Saaaaave me [Player Character]! I'm so weak!" thing irritates me somewhat.

Perhaps I exaggerate, but still... opinions please?

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:07 pm

Why, oh WHY did they make Aerie so whiney? Yes, I know she had her wings sawn off by some very nasty people and she cant ever fly again, but surely wings could have been replaced by a restoration spell, or a wish spell? Argh, and her voice...

Voice aside, consider that if she could have had her wings repaired, they would have been; so obviously, it was impossible. Reading between the lines, she would tortured and abused for a long time; the loss of her wings would have been the equivalent to us of someone sawing off our legs, I suppose. Think hard about how that would affect you, before you answer, "Big deal."

Through it all, she's still managed to pick up two difficult disciplines, and despite her first hesitant steps, stays with your party and never quits in the face of overwhelming external odds. Her monsters are all inner ones, and she grows to deal with them, at least in part, through the game.

In short, Aerie is a Survivor, in the best sense of the word.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:35 pm

Most of these points have been made before but one thing that you need to consider is that it is very difficult (read "imossible") to make a meaningful romance using multiple choice questions. And since multiple-choice is the only effective way to interact with a computer game, the project has some severe limitations to overcome.

With that in mind, I think BioWare did a reasonably good job of suggesting different personalities and motivations in their romance scripts. There really are whiny women and conceited men in the world and, in fact, some people do fall in love with them, so I can't quite sympathize with the view that the scripts are terribly unrealistic, given the constraints mentioned above.

1. Jaheira does seem to get over Khalid rather quickly, but since hers is the longest of the romances (so long in fact that it is often difficult to finish without detracting from the main quest), I'm willing to cut her a little slack. Also, bear in mind that her story line puts her under tremendous pressure and she winds up with no friends other than the PC, so it isn't quite as unrealistic as it might otherwise be.

2. I used to think Aerie was the best of the romances and I don't really think her "whining" is all that bad. She has lived a sheltered life and she is somewhat immature and idealistic when you first meet her. Her one big tragedy is not something she is prepared to deal with, but, by the end of the story, she manages to come to terms with it.

3. I never really liked Anomen and I think it is a shame that he is the only option that female players have for romance. I think Haer'Dalis would have made an interesting romance, but evidently BioWare ran out of time for that one. I don't happen to think it does get better later on, but you might try playing it through yourself before forming a judgment.

4. Viconia is my new favorite romance, mainly because of the possible ending in ToB. You don't have to be an evil character to woo her, but it helps if you have a bit of self-confidence or a lot of patience.

Finally, you might try some of the unofficial romances out there. I liked the Nalia one, myself, but she might be a little too much like Aerie for your taste.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:54 pm

I dont have a problem getting a romance with people, excluding Anomen(Im not ghey[no swearing]). Just say nice things and you'll have them in the palm of your hand.

1.Yeah, I find that wierd about Jaheira. She rarley talks to you about him, though she and Aerie have some interesting and humourous conversations on his subject. No matter, Jaheira is easy to get, just say what you know she wants to hear. And her voice is pretty sexy

2.You're right. Aerie's whining gets on the nerves quickly, but cut her some slack, she had her wings cut off. Shes suffering, so say the nicest things and she'll stow it a lot more.

3.Anomen is the only romance for a girl character, but for guys, I have no comment(ewwwww).

4. Viconia is the hottest one to get, and there are interesting, but I only had her in my party for a short while, because I dont like evil aligned characters.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:36 pm

1. Jaheira's been traveling together with the mainchar for a very long time, there's not impossible that she's begun to like him. But yes, that was one of the things that disapointed me when I first played that game. Jaheira's supposed to go with Khalid, and I always thought that she would mourn over him for a long time instead of just picking someone and move on so soon.

2. The Aerie thing... I always found it hard to believe that her wings are unrestorable. I mean, it's a world of imagination and possibilities. But that aside, even though I don't like her I think she's pretty realistic. Much more than Jaheira , anyway.

3. I won't even get started on Anomen. I can't stand him even being in my party, so a romance... I've nothing against playing female characters, but come on. Did they have to make the oh-so-gay-one the only romancable?

4. Viconia's the one I'll be most likely to have a romance with through the game. I find nothing wrong with her and I love to play neutral/evil-aligned characters.

In all, I don't care diddly squat about the bioware romances. I mean, aside from their personall issues that's already been mentioned here, the whole romance process is that they talk to you and you reply. And there is some quests involved.

Try to romance a girl just by answering to when she begins to talk to you... >.< You should at least be able to initiate romance talk to her yourself, or buy her things. Well. As said, the romances are pretty useless. Especially as they contain 2 of (at least for me) the most hated characters and one that really shouldn't want to get involved at that state of time.

~~
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[semi-spoiler warning]
The most interesting romance would no-doubt have been Imoen (for males) or Sarevok (females). I mean, you three have a pretty strange past together.

Imoen always seems to have a thing for the character. "I'll follow you no matter what, but we should at least try to be nice to people" She has no real issues with whatever alignment or path the main char takes, even though she's good. She won't leave you. And spare me that halv-sister thing... You can't say that Bhaal was an ordinairy father.

Sarevok is the only thing I really loved with ToB. Not only is he a kick-ass character with amazing stats who'll prove usefull as either fighter, fighter/thief or fighter/mage and has a stunning deathblow ability, he's somewhat original as you've fought him through a whole game, just for finally killing him.

That doesn't make him less trustworthy though, as he was only after power in the first place it's only naturally for him to be interested in joining up with the new force that's tearing faerun apart, killing dragons and demons alike. (as you see, I usually go for the path where you choose to become a God and gain tremendous powers. ^^) So, why shouldn't he want to romantice (?) that force and gain a bigger piece of the cake?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:00 pm

I stressed this point before and I'll gladly do it again because I'm a Viconia fan: to romance her you don't have to be an evil character; as a matter of fact the whole romance seems to have been written for a good-aligned pc. Especially with the ToB-addition.

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:21 am

Romance Imoen? Hmm... you could reproduce a child that has 2 heads, 3 eyes, and 8.5 toes.

Sarevok? The dude who tried to kill you? Hmm... that seems way too unrealistic for a Dungeons & Dragons game.

1. Jaheira: on the rebound, perhaps?

2-3. Aerie/Anomen: whiney & moany, sure. But I know lots of people in relationships
where dating one of them would be a definite improvement.

4. Viconia: if a chick hit on me, that looked like *that* (blue skin aside),
I'd look past a few, um, personality defects.

But still, what are the chances someone is attracted to the personality of any 3 individuals, anyways?

So in the end, if you find them annoying, I think that's okay. Roleplay it! Let them know: they'll pipe down quick enough.

(On second thought, I'd look past the blue skin, too.)

TheAmazingOopah · Post by **TheAmazingOopah** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:07 pm

Jaheira indeed had a good chance to get to know the main character, so it's possible that she already got impressed by him when Khalid was still her husband, but she didn't made a move as obviously she was still married to Khalid and you don't just run off with the first guy that "impresses" you while still being married. But perhaps after Khalid died, she needed some strong, muscular, sexy, divine pair of arms to cry out, go with the "Son of Baal" tough guy for a change after being stuck to the "probably-nice-when-you-get-to-know-him-but-still-more-or-less-a-wimp" Khalid for several years. Frankly, I'm just saying things here, trying to talk some logic into it, but I guess it could be more or less acceptable to assume that Jaheira just looked for someone to grasp onto, because she was so vulnerable.
After all, didn't Philip J. Fry from 'Futurama' became his own grandfather, because he travelled back into time, accidently killed his grandfather while trying to save him from from dying, and then had to tell the news to the widow, who became very vulnerable, which led from one thing to another??

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:19 pm

In my opinion Jaheira takes some time to really start to feel in love. She has a lot of respect for the "fearless leader" and her thoughts are twisted. She lived with Khalid and the Child for so long, and probabily shared secrets, and stuff that only very close people get to know. Then her husband dies, tortured, and she's saved, by whom? The sister of Bhaal and the Child of Bhaal themselves. I guess and feel that he grows from the teenager from candlekeep to the hero when the cowled wizards arrive to take Imoen and Irenicus to judgement.

So I have to disagree that she falls in love right away. Who falls in love right away is Viconia, who cant really show her feelings and keeps blaming you for her own disapointment on your neutrality torwards her.

My first romance was Aerie. From a RP perspective, I think it is a Paladin love. You have the all right the all good the wonder girl who can heal and who's been destroyed to save. Of course, its dull cause she is all egocentric about her wings and her beauty, but as Fable said she has a very sad background.

I've tried to romance Anoweenie. It was no go. Really. The guy wouldnt even know how to act in a... situation.

I like Chloe romance, Solaufein, Haerdalis and Aerie relationship; and I really feel that the Girls of Bhaal are cursed to have only Anoweenie on the vanilla game as option.

What's this about Sarevok and Imoen? A mod?

Melisah · Post by **Melisah** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:09 am

I think the cool thing about it though is every one is going to have different opinions on who they would like to romance and on which one is the best. Unfortunatly for some of us, there really isn't a romance in the game that we feel our PC would go for, and then there are the mods but even then, some of us aren't satisfied with the choices out there. Personally I would love to have a Coran romance option (which is being made possible in a mod for BG I with a new portrait thankyouverymuch) but I also know that some other female gamers wouldn't even think of romancing him because of his past. Personally, I'd like the option to romance a bad boy, one with a mind of his own that you don't have to convience to be a certain way but that is still good in some ways but that's just me. I know of a few girls that really like the Anomen romance.

sdwillie · Post by **sdwillie** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:54 am

Since my favorite thing about the NPCs is their conflicts (as opposed to having everyone getting along) the romances were never that big a thing to me, however:

I never thought that Jaheira went for the PC right away. It's by far the longest romance (with I think 56 interactions) and not until around the midpoint do things seem to start moving toward something other than friendship.

Aerie is a big whiner so that you can truly appreciate taking her and Korgan to get Haer Dalis. (Although I don't think the voice makes her whining worse. I think the whining makes her voice worse, since the voice actor is the real problem.)

I never did the thing with Anomen, having kept him around the first time I played and learning to hate him. In fact, other than that first time, when I've taken him I've made him fail his quest, partly for the loot but mainly so I could pick on him.

Viconia was my 'favorite' (if you want to call it that) because she's a much better cleric than Anomen, she's the least annoying of these three, and it's the shortest romance--although from what I've heard it's not as good as the Imoen romance.

And yes, there's an Imoen romance mod.

http://www.imoen.org/

Melisah · Post by **Melisah** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:08 pm

Anomen does become more likable once he is nighted, he's not as much of an ass but I still think his charater was poorly written considering he is the only romancable option for female PCs. It seems to me that his banter with some of the other party members, such as Mazzy, isn't supposed to be part of the romance but just his over all character while he's LN and the writers didn't think about how much of a turn off that could be to good aligned female PCs. It's difficult for the PC (In my case anyway) to want to give him a chance when he's treating Mazzy and some of the other NPCs the way he does. I honestly think the writers just kind of threw him together and didn't have the time to tweek what needed to be tweeked before they had to release the game. Female gamers were definitely short changed on the romance department.