Apart from the two pictures on the back of CD-package (Cowgirl and flamethrower scene on beach) that point to old story ideas or changes in story ideas, I recently found another trace of a change in story.
If you look closely at the image of the licence that Knox Harrington gives you'll see that the actual name on it is not 'Virgil Crumb' but rather reads like... 'Stan Gimble'
Anybody else found traces like these.
Traces of old story idea's (mild spoiler)
Traces of old story idea's (mild spoiler)
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
[QUOTE=Melchiah]I was going through Andrei's soundfiles and found some sentences like: Yes, No, I'll send you an E-mail.
Perhaps the developers wanted to include the sabbat as one of the factions you can join up with in the end?[/QUOTE]
There were rumors about that when the game was in development, so it would make sense. Honestly, it woulnd't have been too difficult to implement.
As per the original post, weren't there Gimble boxes in the Warrens as well? It makes you wonder whether they were originally thinking of doing more with that storyline. While I'm not sure how they would have done so, it seems possible.
Perhaps the developers wanted to include the sabbat as one of the factions you can join up with in the end?[/QUOTE]
There were rumors about that when the game was in development, so it would make sense. Honestly, it woulnd't have been too difficult to implement.
As per the original post, weren't there Gimble boxes in the Warrens as well? It makes you wonder whether they were originally thinking of doing more with that storyline. While I'm not sure how they would have done so, it seems possible.
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pennypincher
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I think every storyline character has the "Yes" "No" and "I'll send you an email" sound files... likley they are "just in case" files so that they didn't have to make any new files if they decided to put more information and quests and plots into the game...
Bob suddenly realises that he needs Dan in the game to give you more quest information... Slaps in the "I'll send you an email" file.. Pretso!
Bob suddenly realises that he needs Dan in the game to give you more quest information... Slaps in the "I'll send you an email" file.. Pretso!
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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A plethora of unused voice files doesn't surprise me. Voice actors cost $dough$ so typically you'll bring them in, get them to do anything you can think of that you might eventually need, and get them back out, hopefully never having to hire them back again. You don't pay them money to sit around sipping pina coladas just in case you might need them later.
However, after long play, and long discussions with others in this forum, I've reached a conclusion that, in retrospect, is obvious. White Wolf wouldn't want a half-baked game with their name on it, so they probably intended to go for the gusto. Likewise, Troika would want to release a game that would wow the gaming world and ensure their immortality. Game programmers being what they are, they naturally wanted to produce the Bigger, Better Game and Blow Everybody's Socks Off. A terribly nice thing to have on one's resume.
It would not surprise me if they fully intended to provide every clan and bloodline as options, and provide a far more diversified environment. Then they ran head on into the hardest obstacle in the universe like Mr. Magoo playing Jai-Alai. A budget buttressed by a release target.
When that started to loom dark and ominous, things started getting tossed unceremoniously out the window in favor of simply getting something done that didn't suck. Implementing clans and bloodlines would be the hardest, so pick and choose from the best available implementations and toss the rest. Then quests become the next target. Then NPCs. Eventually it just got whittled down from something awesome and grandiose to something that could be done in the time available and within the budget.
Hence, we have all of these hints and clues of something greater, but nothing to back them up. They were probably supposed to be there, but couldn't be finished in time. You would doubtlessly find Troika's dumpster littered with unused concept art and storyboards that look very promising, but just took too long.
However, after long play, and long discussions with others in this forum, I've reached a conclusion that, in retrospect, is obvious. White Wolf wouldn't want a half-baked game with their name on it, so they probably intended to go for the gusto. Likewise, Troika would want to release a game that would wow the gaming world and ensure their immortality. Game programmers being what they are, they naturally wanted to produce the Bigger, Better Game and Blow Everybody's Socks Off. A terribly nice thing to have on one's resume.
It would not surprise me if they fully intended to provide every clan and bloodline as options, and provide a far more diversified environment. Then they ran head on into the hardest obstacle in the universe like Mr. Magoo playing Jai-Alai. A budget buttressed by a release target.
When that started to loom dark and ominous, things started getting tossed unceremoniously out the window in favor of simply getting something done that didn't suck. Implementing clans and bloodlines would be the hardest, so pick and choose from the best available implementations and toss the rest. Then quests become the next target. Then NPCs. Eventually it just got whittled down from something awesome and grandiose to something that could be done in the time available and within the budget.
Hence, we have all of these hints and clues of something greater, but nothing to back them up. They were probably supposed to be there, but couldn't be finished in time. You would doubtlessly find Troika's dumpster littered with unused concept art and storyboards that look very promising, but just took too long.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
'twas ever thus!
well put, that elemental person.
the game, although buggy, was clearly the cut-down of something more ambitious. some quests seem truncated and the Gimble lair seems over-elaborate for a one person fight at the end - it doesn't take that many side rooms to let us see that Gimble is psycho.
there are also a number of other locations that seem as if they should be more important to the game, yet often do not even get used. I doubt that the locations were originally going to be as limited.
computers may have contained more clues - some, like the internet cafe in Hollywood, hint at developed characters and plots.
the lack of plot-lines specific to particular clans is another area that seems to have been reduced - only the Tremere and Malks really have a different option to others. perhaps there were to be different havens for every clan and they cut it down?
also, in the warrens and other places, there are items to collect that have no game-effect. in a game as narrow as VtMB, every item is meant to contribute.
It probably is a vain hope, but I would still like to see the system/environment re-used with another vampire story.
well put, that elemental person.
the game, although buggy, was clearly the cut-down of something more ambitious. some quests seem truncated and the Gimble lair seems over-elaborate for a one person fight at the end - it doesn't take that many side rooms to let us see that Gimble is psycho.
there are also a number of other locations that seem as if they should be more important to the game, yet often do not even get used. I doubt that the locations were originally going to be as limited.
computers may have contained more clues - some, like the internet cafe in Hollywood, hint at developed characters and plots.
the lack of plot-lines specific to particular clans is another area that seems to have been reduced - only the Tremere and Malks really have a different option to others. perhaps there were to be different havens for every clan and they cut it down?
also, in the warrens and other places, there are items to collect that have no game-effect. in a game as narrow as VtMB, every item is meant to contribute.
It probably is a vain hope, but I would still like to see the system/environment re-used with another vampire story.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
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yrthwyndandfyre
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I'm surprised and pleased that somebody picked up on the elemental nature of my screen-name Oh Celestial One. Very astute, if I say so myself. Most of the responses on that line are to the tune of "How do you pronounce that! What does it mean!" I'm frankly astonished that so many people picked up on using "Yrth" as a nick-name of sorts. It speaks well of this community that so many could read it as written. Here there be dragons. That's good.
But yes, I concur. There is so much depth in VTMB just aching for somebody to dive into it. Troika is history, and it seems that White Wolf has taken a different path. The WoD is, however, well documented on the web, and we can always hope that a group of talented game designers will take up the reins and try for a VTMB 2 that is all of what VTMB suggested it might be.
I know for certain that I would be first in line for a reprise.
Might I assume, as pure presumption, that you have some niggling experience with the grandiose ideas of Project Managers, and the agony of dealing with Ferociously Creative People who can spend their 15 minute coffee break doodling on the white-board and force you to change your underwear because you were laughing too hard?
I get that, too. I wouldn't trade them for anybody. The underwear I can wash. The laughter cleans something that no soap can touch. The PMs? they force me to think 'outside the box' and find more of me than I think I have.
But yes, I concur. There is so much depth in VTMB just aching for somebody to dive into it. Troika is history, and it seems that White Wolf has taken a different path. The WoD is, however, well documented on the web, and we can always hope that a group of talented game designers will take up the reins and try for a VTMB 2 that is all of what VTMB suggested it might be.
I know for certain that I would be first in line for a reprise.
Might I assume, as pure presumption, that you have some niggling experience with the grandiose ideas of Project Managers, and the agony of dealing with Ferociously Creative People who can spend their 15 minute coffee break doodling on the white-board and force you to change your underwear because you were laughing too hard?
I get that, too. I wouldn't trade them for anybody. The underwear I can wash. The laughter cleans something that no soap can touch. The PMs? they force me to think 'outside the box' and find more of me than I think I have.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
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Raa
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[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]A plethora of unused voice files doesn't surprise me. Voice actors cost $dough$ so typically you'll bring them in, get them to do anything you can think of that you might eventually need, and get them back out, hopefully never having to hire them back again. You don't pay them money to sit around sipping pina coladas just in case you might need them later.
[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing is that it's included in the final product. Why would they distribute those voice files if they're left unused? A clue of their intention to make an expansion later perhaps?
[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing is that it's included in the final product. Why would they distribute those voice files if they're left unused? A clue of their intention to make an expansion later perhaps?
ROMERO: If you should see any zombies in that time, you need to put them down. Just don't let them bite you.
PC: Why? Do you turn into a zombie if they bite you?
ROMERO: Naw, it just hurts like a bitch.
Mry Ymen-Raa, neb n'swt ta'wy
PC: Why? Do you turn into a zombie if they bite you?
ROMERO: Naw, it just hurts like a bitch.
Mry Ymen-Raa, neb n'swt ta'wy
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=Raa]The interesting thing is that it's included in the final product. Why would they distribute those voice files if they're left unused? A clue of their intention to make an expansion later perhaps?[/QUOTE]
I doubt that anything so arcane was intended. More than likely, pushed for a release date, they just cut a copy of their latest working test version, including all of the files that were originally put there 'just in case'. A great many products get released with bits and pieces of code and data that may have originally served an intended purpose, but the product simply wasn't cleaned up prior to release.
I doubt that anything so arcane was intended. More than likely, pushed for a release date, they just cut a copy of their latest working test version, including all of the files that were originally put there 'just in case'. A great many products get released with bits and pieces of code and data that may have originally served an intended purpose, but the product simply wasn't cleaned up prior to release.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
Boogie Wonderland
Alas no experience of working with creative types - when I started (as a lawyer no less) - one of the guys I worked with always asked me if I had used a 'precedent' for just about everything I ever wrote - talk about conservative and buttoned-up. I had to give the impression that the documents I produced were based on something in a book somewhere rather than coming straight out of my head. Running writing workshops was a bit more creative, but alas no trouser-wettingly funny moments.
[Incidentally, my nom-de-poste was an old multiclass AD&D character who survived quite a few adventures, despite us having an almost psychotic DM]
Alas no experience of working with creative types - when I started (as a lawyer no less) - one of the guys I worked with always asked me if I had used a 'precedent' for just about everything I ever wrote - talk about conservative and buttoned-up. I had to give the impression that the documents I produced were based on something in a book somewhere rather than coming straight out of my head. Running writing workshops was a bit more creative, but alas no trouser-wettingly funny moments.
[Incidentally, my nom-de-poste was an old multiclass AD&D character who survived quite a few adventures, despite us having an almost psychotic DM]
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"