Thief or Fighter which is stronger?

[Ravager]

I would personally chose fighter as that is my preferred style. I don't really like too much of the hit-and-run tactics.

But I think the thief is going to be more powerful overall. Especially after reading the comments here

[darkraven]

I never meant that I would let my fighter stand in the same place for the whole game but all I meant that if I was fighting a thief in the game that had traps laid all over place then the best thing to do would be hold my position and deal and with the thief.The thief would have to drink a potion to be able to backstab again and that take a few second after coming out shadow and thing only thing that I would need to do is use power attack to stun the thief and it is history.It is possible that my fighter might miss the thief but I doubt that since in TOB a fighter thaco is so low that they hit with every strike.

[FireLighter]

Except critical miss .

Anyway, I would vote for thief simply because of the possible damage with the backstab on a high level thief plus all the HLA's. Law down a time trap, shoot the fighter to lure him to it, and then just beat the **** out of him.

[darkraven]

[QUOTE=FireLighter]Except critical miss .

Anyway, I would vote for thief simply because of the possible damage with the backstab on a high level thief plus all the HLA's. Law down a time trap, shoot the fighter to lure him to it, and then just beat the **** out of him. [/QUOTE]

Why is it that in this battle the thief get a chance to lay down his traps and set everything up advance and the fighter is dumb as board.The thief can't place a trap when his enemies can see him and there are item that protect againist backstab.Ok her goes a nice combo right here the fighter drinks a potion of invisibilty and then uses power attack and on the thief with the boots of speeds on how tell how does the thief beat that combo.I suppose that all he would need to do is cast true sight.I just realized that this is silly is a thread because no one can win.The good thing is that there are no thieves or fighter in TOB that used the tactics posted in this thread or it would be impossible to win the game.

[Phantom Lord]

The original question was which character is more powerful.

The thief is the character with the greatest range of abilities in the game, one reason for this is that abilities (and spells) often come with items and the thief can use all items. Besides that, a thief has a great range of class specific abilities that can not be copied by other classes.

Fighters deal and take damage, that's what they're good at. But if you take the game to the extreme and really micro your character, a thief will prove more powerful than a fighter, because he has more possibilites. You can probably solve every single situation in the game with a thief (given proper equipment). With a fighter (given proper equipment as well) some situations seem quite impossible to solve. Empathic Manifestation, for example (altough I honestly don't know if a vorpal weapon, i.e. the Silver Sword, would work) but there are other near-impossible situations as well.

Concerning a PvP fighter vs thief: If the thief manages to become invisible at the beginning of the fight, the fighter would likely lose. And the thief will likely manage to become invisible. As a matter of fact, the fighter would lose against almost any class, not because he is not powerful, but because he is not a good stand alone character. A fighter is highly specialized and therefore a strong addition for a party, that's why he will likely lead in the kill XP stats. But for a stand alone character he is too specialized. The game is simply designed that way.

[darkraven]

Some people give thieves to much credit.While a thief is a powerfully customer even they have limits and can be defeated .A class is as powerfully as the player playing game.Some people are better with different class then other and I am better with the fighter because I use then decoys in battle and they take the damage while spells are being casted that make the battle easier.To me in TOB it is alot easier to have the fighters get out there and tear down an enemy rather sneak up behind him and backstab him or set alot of traps to beat the tougher enemies because that is boring.You can pretty much beat the game easily if you the thief set traps and rest and then set more traps but that would be dull a game.

[Sononara]

HA! A mage or sorceror shall beat them both in but two spells! and if it comes to close quarters, just a few good armour spells, a nice mordakins sword, black blade of doom or whatever, a nice tensers transformation, the kill spell, and vwahalla, there goes fighter.

thief goes invisible. True sight, improved invisibily on mage, then time stop, with improved alcracity. then just let rip.

[Phantom Lord]

[QUOTE=Sononara]thief goes invisible. True sight, improved invisibily on mage, then time stop, with improved alcracity. then just let rip. [/QUOTE]Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee - your spells can't hit what your eyes can't see.

Consider Staff of the Magi and the Cloak of Non-Detection standard thief equipment.

[Sononara]

Did I not say True Sight?

[Phantom Lord]

You did say "True Sight" indeed. True sight also counters the Spell "Non-Detection" but I'm not sure if it counters the cloak of the same name.

Cloak of Non-Detection
Statistics: Non-detectable by magical means such as scrying and detect invisibility.
Weight: 3

"Non-detectable by magical means" sounds pretty much True Sight would not work.

[Sononara]

Yeah...mind you.
Would you not, just become visible once more when u back stab? So then i quickly teleport/time stop, IA, THEN let rip!

[Phantom Lord]

It's even more difficult - I couldn't backstab with SoM except I use Assassination. I'd prefer SoR anyway, altough SoM should do against a Sorc.

So ... what would I do? I'd probably use Helm of Vailor first, Scrolls of Time Stop, Pierce Shield and True Sight equipped. Now there's two of me, each one able to turn himself invisible, turn others visible and deal with spell protections. I'd re-equip both SoMs and run some circles first - makes it more difficult to tell which one is the simmy. Then I'd probably have the Simmy cast True Sight and a moment later the character cast Time Stop (the character can use scrolls from inventory, so he should cast timestop. Also, you may go for the simmie if it draws your attention first). If I manage to get into Timestop, I have a good chance of winning, I guess.

[Phantom Lord]

... but talking about characters, I think it's the combination that makes a good character. One may accuse me of XP cap removal but ... Tactics isn't always nice, isn't it? This is what I'm currently playing.

[Sononara]

True enough, tis a risky game to play, though. A couple of mordakins swords, a few planateers, few powerword:kill can fix all that. I dare say a battle of thief and mage/sourceror is quite even.

[Phantom Lord]

It's definately unpredictable.

Could characters prepare themselves? If the Mage or Sorc can load contingencies / triggers before the fight, the thief would be outright dead. If the thief could trap the area, the mage / sorc would be outright dead. Etc.

There is no such thing as a strongest character, there is only a first move that works or not, like service at tennis. But then it's fun to speculate what works and what doesn't.

A superior comment on PvP in this forum was once made by Bruce Lee: "Rift device plus Ring of the Ram, PvP anyone?". This sums it up pretty well.

[darkraven]

A well prepared mage can just about defeat any class despite what items that they have on them.If the mage is able to get off time stop then that pretty much sum everything up right there because they can remove any defenses that there enemy has and then just cast one nasty spell and this fight is pretty much over.

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=roug3l3ad3r]However all the fighters in ToB have better dialouge.[/QUOTE]

No. What about Jan Jansen? He's a thief too. No go.

@Sonara: While mages are the king of cheeses, even they need to see what's comming. If you know how to use the thieving habilities your mage wouldnt be able to even see the thief coming. Also, I agree that the mage can devastate a whole party with the proper selection of spells.

In the end @all, I guess this discussion is kinda pointless. You can devastate parties with all classes, its just a matter of choices and mistakes. Even the most powerfull mage can be lured by the worst beastmaster, thief, druid...

As a matter of fact, one can still win on Tactics/redemption mods

[Thrifalas]

[QUOTE=darkraven]A well prepared mage can just about defeat any class despite what items that they have on them.If the mage is able to get off time stop then that pretty much sum everything up right there because they can remove any defenses that there enemy has and then just cast one nasty spell and this fight is pretty much over.[/QUOTE]

Ring of Invis + Cloak of Non-detection? I havn't tried the cloak myself, but if it works the way the description says, I guess all the mage can do is to jam the area full of AoE-spells... which isn't the most effective way of killing something. ^^

[darkraven]

While I suppose that is a good way of dealing with true sight and stop the mage from being able to detect you but I think that you forgot about the Wish spell.A mage with enough wisdom can cast spell and that is that.This spell can be very deadly and there no defense againist it besides to stop the mage from casting it.

[Sononara]

i dont like to use wish. to powerful, imo.