BG Themed Party

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:37 am

I'm determined to finish the damn game if it kills me. As I'd downloaded many of the Baldur's Gate (1 & 2) voice sets from Sorcerer's Palace I thought I might, for novelty value, base my characters on certain characters from the BG series. I won't actually be using the Bg character names in game but will be using Dale Keeper to keep the stats the same so the characters have the same strengths and weakness.

At the moment my party looks like this...

"Korgan Bloodaxe" CE Dwarf Fighter 18:77/15/19/12/9/7

- At the moment I'm thinking Shield Dwarf, but was wondering whether seeing as his class was Battlerager should I give him some barbarian levels as well?

"Montaron" NE Halfling Fighter/Thief 16/17/15/12/13/09

- What type of halfling do you guys suggest? He will probably end up more fighter than thief and focus more on the scout/decoy role due to his low INT.

"Faldorn" CN Human Druid 12/15/11/10/16/15

- I switched her alignment as like Jaheira (boo hiss) she never really reflected True Neutrality other than that not going to alter her too much. I am in two minds about utilizing Weidu's shapeshifting and spell improvements, especially the latter. How unbalanced are the new creature forms (keep in my I'm only going to be playing normal so the chances of me acquiring the elemental dragon shapes are small at best).

"Safana" CN Human Rogue 13/17/12/16/09/17

- Obviously she will be the thief/diplomat character but I was wondering whether I should add some bard levels or would that stray too much from the character. I always thought that in BG/Tutu she identified quite strongly with the siryns who can sing and used charm based magics so bard made sense. I really don't want a pure rogue.

"Edwin Odesseiron" LE Human Wizard [Conjurer] 09/10/16/18/09/10
"Xzar" CE Human Wizard [Necromancer] 14/16/10/17/16/10

- Two wizards instead of a sorcerer

Not going to change one of the to sorcerer (I find playing sorcerers rather dull) so one will focus more on blasting the other crowd control (summoning/enchatments etc.)

Any other advice, suggestions for substitutions (as long as they are in keeping with the darker theme of the party - Keldorn need not apply) would be appreciated. I'm not starting this run through til the weekend so plenty of time for ammendments.

Thanks.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:19 am

Viconia! Not only is she a great character and a powerful cleric, but in IWD2 you can, of course, create actual Drow chars, instead of faking it as in BG.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:22 am

Raven_Song wrote: "Korgan Bloodaxe" CE Dwarf Fighter 18:77/15/19/12/9/7

- At the moment I'm thinking Shield Dwarf, but was wondering whether seeing as his class was Battlerager should I give him some barbarian levels as well?

i could see him as a ftr 4 / barb x. or you can go w/ minimal barb levels just for the rage ability alone.

"Montaron" NE Halfling Fighter/Thief 16/17/15/12/13/09

- What type of halfling do you guys suggest? He will probably end up more fighter than thief and focus more on the scout/decoy role due to his low INT.

here is a utility problem, by sticking w/ the lowish int you cut into your rogue skills, i'd likely sent a few more points into int and make this the primary thief.

"Faldorn" CN Human Druid 12/15/11/10/16/15

- I switched her alignment as like Jaheira (boo hiss) she never really reflected True Neutrality other than that not going to alter her too much. I am in two minds about utilizing Weidu's shapeshifting and spell improvements, especially the latter. How unbalanced are the new creature forms (keep in my I'm only going to be playing normal so the chances of me acquiring the elemental dragon shapes are small at best).

honestly the weidu shapes are overkill, the standard shapes (boar, wolves, bears, panther) are plenty good for normal mode. the spell improvements are likewise overpowered, but you have the option not to use the added spells

"Safana" CN Human Rogue 13/17/12/16/09/17

- Obviously she will be the thief/diplomat character but I was wondering whether I should add some bard levels or would that stray too much from the character. I always thought that in BG/Tutu she identified quite strongly with the siryns who can sing and used charm based magics so bard made sense. I really don't want a pure rogue.

imho safana should be dropped in favour of viconia. the utility of a cleric cannot be overstated. i just can't give the thumbs up to a party w/ 2 rogues and only a druid for healing. perhaps you can drop montaron or korgan and keep safana as a bard mix - as a talky rogue (and perhaps also dealing w/ traps & locks) i can easily see only going w/a few rogue levels and primarily leveling up as bard)

"Edwin Odesseiron" LE Human Wizard [Conjurer] 09/10/16/18/09/10
"Xzar" CE Human Wizard [Necromancer] 14/16/10/17/16/10

- Two wizards instead of a sorcerer Not going to change one of the to sorcerer (I find playing sorcerers rather dull) so one will focus more on blasting the other crowd control (summoning/enchatments etc.)

i'd make certain that the two wizards don't have any common opposition schools, from the manual it looks ok, however i'm not one to be trusting the manual.

you know you will have problems w/ scrolls, something to consider is splitting scrolls up to make certain that both retain some flexability as well as some oomph.

Dedigan · Post by **Dedigan** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:45 am

Before you do anything, read this thread

The thread I just pointed at is about 3.5 edition rules to the paper and pencil game, but it should give you some good pointers about the direction to take when making your themed party.

As far as IWD2 goes, I would make Korgan a pure barbarian (or throw in 4 levels of fighter) and make him a shield dwarf.

Your idea for Montaron sounds good. I haven't played BG1 in forever and a day, so I don't remember much about him.

Same with Faldorn, BG1 character, I don't know. But as for the Weidu mod, I didn't really see any difference until the higher levels for the shape shifting. Once you can get elemental dragon, then it is a bit overpowering. Before that, just normal druid (without mod) is pretty powerful in itself. If you plan on HoF mode, then the mod isn't really a choice. You almost have to do it.

The rest are also BG1 characters except Edwin, and Edwin is just Edwin. You may have problems with that party and no priest, so I would have to agree with the others on adding in Viconia.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:21 am

Viconia

Her soundset is slightly problematic in that it contains references to Shar

1. Nightbringer of Shar is not supported in IWD2 clerical domains
2. Monk of the Darkmoon is.

So either Viconia becomes an advocate of another faith (after disabling the appropriate sound files) or she becomes a monk. So

1. She becomes a priestess of Mask or Bane?
2. She becomes a monk with increadibly high WIS, DEx, CHA and INT and poor STR and CON

Edwin/Xzar

They do have oppositional schools Edwin's is Evocation and Xzar's are Illsion and Enchantment

Montaron vs. Safana

If Montaron becomes the primary thief I'll need a diplomat and likely another tank type given that Viccy hardly qualifies and Monty will be more thief than fighter. (So Faldorn will need to go and probably one of the mages to make room for someone like Eldoth)

If I maintain Safana as the primary thief (albeit with bard levels which would be more than likely) I'd still need another tank type.

In either case Viconia's inclusion makes Faldorn's inclusion less necessary, leaving space for another muscle type

Below is a list of all of the BG related soundsets I have for use (I would be willing to switch to a good/neutral party although I would prefer an evil/neutral one)

Alora CG Thief
Cernd TN Druid
Coran CG Fighter/Thief
Dynaheir LG Invoker
Edwin LE Conjurer
Eldoth NE Bard
Haer Dalis CN Bard
Jaheira TN Fighter/Druid
Jan CN Thief/Illusionist
Kaigan LE Fighter
Keldorn LG Paladin
Kivan CG Ranger
Korgan CE Fighter
Mazzy LG Fighter
Minsc NG Ranger
Montaron NE Fighter/Thief
Safana CN Thief
Sarevok CE Fighter
Shar-Teel CE Fighter
Tiax CE Thief/Cleric
Valygar NG Ranger
Viconia NE Cleric
Xan LN Enchanter
Xzar CE Necromancer
Yoshimo TN Thief

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:07 am

Great idea you have there

For evil/neutral themed BG party I´d go for

Sarevok, Human?
Fighter Tank/Diplomat

Jaheira, Half Elf
Fighter4/DruidX Tank/Spellsword/Healer for front lines

Haerdalis, Tiefling(Using Dalekeeper to make him look like an elf)
Fighter4/BardX Scout/Spellsword/Magekiller/Support Healer
(only problem is how to get evasion.... maybe HalfElf Ftr4/Rogue3/BardX. )

Viconia, Drow
Stormlord Of Talos(only choice, Bane is not Viconia-like and Tiax would be even more stranger to come up with and cleric is needed)
Healer/Buffer/Support Bombardier

Jan Jansen, Rock Gnome
RogueX/IllusionistX Loremaster/Thief/Summoner/Enchanter

Xzar, Human
Necromancer Bombardier

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:52 am

Jaheira

I really don't see her fitting in with a neutral/evil party. Although her alignment was True Neutral I'd always seen her more as Neutral Good and she is after all a Harper (who are generally do gooders). By contrast Faldorn had always struck me as a slightly "darker" druid whose alignment would probably be more Chaotic Neutral and therefore probably more fitting.

Haer'Dalis

I'd need to make him a half-elf or human to work a fighter/bard without acquiring an EXP penalty, which I think is changing the character a little too much. Although I could see him as a bard/thief.

Viconia

What about cleric of mask? He is the lord of Shadows and therefore the closest to Shar. (Tiax worships Cyric, but since he isn't a God in the time of IWD2 it would probably be Bane whom Cyric replaced)

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:00 am

Well... faldorn would be quite weak for front lines

And shapeshifting without mod is crappy anyway.

Tiax might be the choice then.... for cleric.

Tieflings in Bg were more elvish than in IWD2, so haerdalis could be halfelf -like

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:54 am

Actually Tiax would make a really difficult character to play given the restrictions of 3.5 rules.

He's a gnome so his favoured class is Illusionist (well wizard anyway)

That being said his class in BG was cleric/thief and therefore to stop him acquiring an experience you'd need to keep the cleric and thief levels a pretty similar values

Add to that his interesting stat allocation

STR 09 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 09

You'd have a thief with very few skill points and a cleric who'd have trouble casting spells above the second level, without ability increases.

Imagine soloing with him.

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:03 pm

Oh.... I had forgotten his poor stats

Horrible.
One who comletes the game with that kind of char is either lucky or alien from another planet

So. what kind of party are you thinking???

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:33 pm

As it stands at the moment...

Korgan, Edwin and Xzar are still included

Viconia is in as a Cleric of Mask
Faldorn is out
Safana remains as a Bard/Rogue
Montaron is gone
Sarevok is in as a second tank

This would leave the party as

Korgan, Sarevok, Viconia, Safana, Edwin and Xzar.

But I'm still willing to be convinced otherwise ... not about Tiax though

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:46 pm

Sounds excellent...

I guess you don´t use the druid-mod so Faldorn would´ve been useless anyway

Be sure to report your success on the way????

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:10 pm

I have used druids both modded and un-modded in other games and I've never found them useless. My main reason for dropping Faldorn is that she duplicated too many roles

Healer - Viconia (and a rogue/bard Safana)
Bombardier - Xzar and Edwin
Summoner - Edwin and Viconia

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:52 pm

That seems to be effective party

Still I think that unmodded Druid is weak....
shapeshifts that is.. spells... well, ok.
But hey... Opinion are like assh*les, everyone has one and they all stink

Who is the magekiller..?
Magic Res. etc

Melee force is signufucant in that party, but magical aid ´will be needed for frontliners... maybe Sarevok to Fighter/Wiz at some point??

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:27 pm

[QUOTE=Darkwind]That seems to be effective party

Still I think that unmodded Druid is weak....
shapeshifts that is.. spells... well, ok.
But hey... Opinion are like assh*les, everyone has one and they all stink

Who is the magekiller..?
Magic Res. etc

Melee force is signufucant in that party, but magical aid ´will be needed for frontliners... maybe Sarevok to Fighter/Wiz at some point??[/QUOTE]

In my experience (which is limited to the first three chapters) mage-killers aren't as essential as they were in bg2, mages can be controlled with the appropriate spells/missiles until the tanks reach them. Still Korgan will probably assume that role having the barbarian speed and the dwarven racial bonus vs. saves and at a push a buffed up Safana could try the odd back-stab/sneak attack or whatever its called in this game.

Korgan and Sarevok would be buffed by Viconia and Safana before and during combat and don't fogret that Viconia and Edwin will both be summoning should the tanks get in too much trouble. Besides with two mages scrolls will already be slightly stretched without adding Sarevok into the mix.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:02 pm

[QUOTE=Raven_Song]
This would leave the party as

Korgan, Sarevok, Viconia, Safana, Edwin and Xzar.

But I'm still willing to be convinced otherwise ... not about Tiax though

[/QUOTE]

this is a pretty strong crew.

that being said if the choice were mine to make, i'd work around viconia as diplomat / cleric (and using korgan for intimidate if need be) while keeping montaron & faldorn at the expense of saravok and safana.

korgan - tank, heavy talker.
monty - tank / scout
faldorn - caster / backup tank / backup healer.
vic - diplomat / healer
edwin xzarr - blasting and all round smart guy stuff.

i would be tempted to move edwin to a sorc, to better replicate his multiple castings and the fact that he can't cast evocation spells in iwd2. also would allow making edwin the party talker given the synergy w/ cha...

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:26 am

Originally posted by koz-ivan
I would be tempted to move edwin to a sorc, to better replicate his multiple castings and the fact that he can't cast evocation spells in iwd2. also would allow making edwin the party talker given the synergy w/ cha...

The problem with that is I really didn't want to mess with the characters BG sats (other than using Dale Keeper to achieve them in the first case). Although "Edwin" will lose his extra spell per level and not have access to Evocation magic his BG2 abilities really wouldn't allow him to be a sorcerer (CHA 10) and I've always preferred Necromancy and Enchantments to Evocation in any case (alothugh even I can't eny the usefulness of fireball)

Maybe I'll replace Edwin ...

keeping montaron & faldorn at the expense of saravok and safana.

Again Montaron would need modifications to make him the primary thief as with only 12 INT his skill points would be a little short, which means I'd need another character with some rogue levels

With the inclusion of Viconia, I felt Faldorn became somewhat irrelevant in that she seemed to be nothing more than a back-up (healer/bombardier/summoner) and really with a STR 12 and CON 11 her tanking potential is limited until she gains some decent wild shapes.

Using Viconia as the diplomat would mean bluff would be a cross class skill and so significantly poorer than her diplomacy.

Sarevok/Safana

If I were to loose Sarevok and Safana to keep Montaron, I'd want to keep a slightly more intelligent rogue handy. While Jan Jansen's turnip anecdotes would be slightly less amusing than Safana's brazenness it would Monty to focus on scouting and back-up tanking. This would of course essentially give me three mages, but then Edwin would be less of a requirement, so if he was given the boot this would leave the party standing at

Korgan ... Tank
Montaron ... Back-up Tank/Scout
Viconia ... Healer
Xzar ... Bombardier
Jan Jansen ... Thief/Bombardier

I'm still not convinced about Faldorn, and I'd still really need a character capable of bluffing ... step forward Eldoth Kron. Although his DEX (12) is quite poor for a bard with appropriate buffing and a few fighter levels (and maybe some thief) he could make a quite good diplomat/decoy/support caster/support healer

Which would make the party

Korgan Bloodaxe - Melee Damage / Meat Shield
Montaron - Scout / Back-Stabber / Back-Up Melee/Meat Shield
Viconia - Healer / Summoner / Back-Up Diplomat
Eldoth Kron - Diplomat / Decoy / Support Caster / Back-Up Healer
Jan Jansen - Thief / Back-Up Bombardier / Alchemist
Xzar - Bombardier / Loremaster

Its an idea ... no doubt by tomorrow I'll have decided to go good and I'll be worrying whether Minsc, Kivan or Valygar should serve as back-up tank to Keldorn

Darkwind · Post by **Darkwind** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:49 am

Don´t lose Sarevok so easily

With Korgan, monty and Viconia... You have quite porr melee force, since Korgan is the only real tank

if you need a Druid so badly.. take Cernd.. he was shapeshifter druid after all.. And really use the modded druid to make him really effective

If you have Safana as bard already then Eldoth i´s really not the choice.... Safana had high charisma and int right? and since she is a rogue also... Intimidate, Diplomacy and Bluff are all her class skills.. maybe she should be diplomat??

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:09 am

I'd like to thank everybody for their advice but I'm having to put all my gaming on hold until I get my MA dissertation sorted. I will however return to this idea at some point in the future.

Again thanks.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:42 pm

[QUOTE=Raven_Song]I'd like to thank everybody for their advice but I'm having to put all my gaming on hold until I get my MA dissertation sorted. I will however return to this idea at some point in the future.

Again thanks.[/QUOTE]

ahh well best of luck with that.

anyhow i'm not sure why you're so devoted to their stats in the earlier games, afterall they were built w/ totally different rulesets.

there should be some changes - that being said i'm curious as to how much tinkering you would need to do w/ dalekeeper to match the stats vs just distributing them w/ iwd2 point method.