Is anyone else offended by...

[Magrus]

I went into work this morning, and when I went into the bathroom during a break, I saw little pamphlets, strategically placed in various areas that a person would normally place there hand on, or near if the pamphlet would fall off that area. I noticed, these pamphlets were printed by a Baptist organization, and I was deeply offended that I had someone's religious advertisement thrust in front of me. I flipped through it, saw it basically stated "need to convert or suffer", stated psalms as references and a way to contatct the company to send to get more printed off.

This just, truly infuriated me. Religious propoganda, and scare tactics are one thing in a religious building, where people come to see, and listen to a religious figure of their own initiative. Leaving such things around gets under my skin, just like showing up to bother people on the street and at home. I shredded it, and walked out, tossed it into the garbage can and went back to work. Yet, it's still bothering me.

I tried thinking of why it is still bothering me, and then thought of when I was driving around. I see the same time of slogan all over town on signs outside church buildings. Not all of them, but some of them, it's not "welcome" or something of that nature. It's "convert now, and be saved!". That, or bumper stickers. I tire of seeing it, and it bothers me. Why? If I put my beliefs on a sign outside my house, the majority of my neighbors would throw a FIT and never let me live it down. Yet, it's ok for them to do so, and I can't say boo, because it's legal for me to do so as well.

If I printed out pamphlets, and said "(X deity) says believe or be damned", and rambled off why, knocked on doors, woke people up, put them on windshields, etc...people would curse me all over town. I'd be a rude, insensitive heathen who's obviously evil or insane. Thinking of the situation, I definately feel as if I went into a long discussion of my personal beliefs with a group of people, I would most definately garner the same reaction I recieved the last time. That of the damned soul in need of redemption, and insane if I reject it.

This makes me think of a form of persecution. It's not overt, in the sense of it being actively pursued. Yet, when the people who are putting these things out meets up with someone like me, and finds out the beliefs conflict, they don't tend to react in a calm, peaceful manner. They turn from assertive and in your face, to aggressive and stubborn. I can sit there and say "Yes, I respect your beliefs, but I have my own, and I don't wish to hear anymore." They in turn become agitated and start saying I'm damned and evil and so on.

My beliefs are rejected promptly as false, my judgement as flawed, their view of my character is that of corrupt, or that I am unholy. I am suddenly treated as though I'm unclean, and in need of sterilization, by force if necessary. "No" is not taken and accepted, it's like religious rape sometimes. I've had to quite honestly, hit someone to force them to back off. Walking away, telling them to go away, leaving a building, all of it failed to get someone away from me.

Also, has anyone been subjected to trickery on the part of a religion in order to be brought somewhere to a religious function? For example, as a child, I was asked to go to a lock-in at a movie theatre with a friend, which was in reality a lock-in for some Christian religious denomination. Movies were not played, I was preached to. They would not allow me to leave, saying it was dark out and unsafe. Also, they would not allow me to use a phone to call my parents in order to get a ride home. This, to me, is kidnapping and when telling this story to my one roommate, he mentioned similar situations in his childhood too.

I don't intend to make a thread of X religion vs. Y religion, but I am curious, does anyone else become terribly offended by this kind of thing? Better yet, does anyone else experience this kind of thing? I've got my own, firm beliefs, yet they're my beliefs, and I keep them to myself. Both for respect of others, and because I've dealt with a friendly discussion of my beliefs before with others, and had them pounce on me for being different. I can understand that people have a natural inclination to be firm in their beliefs, yet the fact that the majority of those surrounding me are of a specific religion and hate mine tends to make me feel more than a bit uncomfortable at times. Almost as if I'm suddenly small, and wondering when I'll be jumped and attacked if I say the wrong thing at any given moment.

[fable]

In a word, yes. I find it extremely offensive that somebody would attempt to convert me, and what's more, would use the kind of ridiculous arguments that might be suspect by a five-year-old, such as you find in those pamphlets. Unfortunately, several religions, such as Christianity and Islam, make a determined effort at conversion. Not all Christians or Muslims are like this, by any means, but the few who do it, draw attention in the worst way to their religion. Are you aware of anybody who has been convinced by such bilge? I'm not. So on top of everything else, I strongly doubt they succeed in their main goal. Unless their goal is to be as offensive as possible.

[Hill-Shatar]

I am sure that all the people here are visited by those lovely, something or other, witnesses every so often. The one with the magical number of 200,000. I am truly surprised that they would come to my house, of all others, and ask if we would like to convert. I am not truly religious, in any sort of way, so I instead typically ask them if there is anyway that they could be converted by me.

They say no. I say exactly. I close the door in their faces.

Of course, they believe that their way is the right way by following their "faith", and concluding that all who are not enlightened to their ways must be a heathen of some sort. My parenst stopped taking me to church when the minister started yelling out about how christmas should be a day of prayer, where we would all come to church and pray in rememberance, and their was this couple that would always stand up after he quoted passages from the bible, both obscure, and with some strategic snipping, and after he was finsihed misinterpreting it (I know that I am no master of the subject, but please, it was truly pathetic) would yell Halleijah and Praise the Lord!

I tend to find people who have too much faith, simply to be close minded. I do not agree with a person philisophicoloy. They have faith in their subject, therefore they must fight to the death. I find this a surprisingly stubborn, al;beit most likely satisfying way, to spend your life.

[Bloodstalker]

No, doesn't bother me. In the same way that telemarketers, bill collectors, salesmen in stores etc don't bother me. Then again, I handle all those in much the same way, I don't listen, comment, or interact with them at all when they approach me. A telemarketer calls me, as soon as they begin I hang up. I find religious litereature I don;t want to look at, I don;t look at it. Someone tries to talk me into their beliefs, I don't reply and move on.

I used to have a lot more trouble with people like that when I would try to decline politely, argue my own beliefs, or question theirs. but that's what they are expecting. They expect to face an argument, they expect to have to persuade you through a lengthy conversation. I've not seen many people who will stand there speaking to someone who simply doesn't acknowlegde their presense for long. I think they feel like idiots.

The kicker is that for the most part my religious beliefs fall in line with Christianity. I just simply don;t agree with much of the conversion tactics/seperatist mentality most of these people exhibit.

As far as persecution or them thinking I'm insane or hellbound for my actions, well, I could care less what anyone thinks of me anyway, so that doesn't bother me either.

[Faust]

It's no more offensive than the other type of advertisements (some for morally ambiguous products) I am exposed to every day (whether it be on television, radio, or in public and privately owned establishments). And, honestly, religious groups have a distinct right to advertise their faith (and it's important for us to keep in mind what is at stake for those who buy into this radical evangelical material - eternal damnation for unbelievers. So it's an important part of their very religious identity to "covert the heathens"). Given, the lionshare of the arguments made by groups who do active advertisements are usually utter crap (the people at Chick Tracts are in dire need of some basic philosophy and religious studies courses at accredited institutions...). And, on a more visceral level, I'm generally deeply turned off by that level of stuff.On a more cognitive level, I believe it's in their rights to put that type of material out there.

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Bloodstalker]No, doesn't bother me. In the same way that telemarketers, bill collectors, salesmen in stores etc don't bother me. Then again, I handle all those in much the same way, I don't listen, comment, or interact with them at all when they approach me. A telemarketer calls me, as soon as they begin I hang up. I find religious litereature I don;t want to look at, I don;t look at it. Someone tries to talk me into their beliefs, I don't reply and move on.

......

As far as persecution or them thinking I'm insane or hellbound for my actions, well, I could care less what anyone thinks of me anyway, so that doesn't bother me either.[/QUOTE]

First, I just find it offensive that I'm bothered. My privacy is broken, and as I said before, some people just don't leave you alone. I've tried ignoring it, and not saying anything, then walking away. Sometimes it works, sometimes I get followed. If a telemarketer calls, and I tell them I'm not interested, never to hear from that company again, I don't mind it. It's when I get repeated phone calls, or repeatedly bothered I get offended.

[QUOTE=hill1]I instead typically ask them if there is anyway that they could be converted by me.

They say no. I say exactly. I close the door in their faces. [/QUOTE]

Exactly, what is it that people don't get with that? This is another thing that bothers me. I have my beliefs. My beliefs, and they stay that way. I do not push them on anyone else, nor feel the need to. I may think my own thoughts about those who hold beliefs differently than I do, but those stay private. I find it terribly offensive to have to deal with "You think differently than I do, therefore you are 'evil/damned/going to burn/going to hell/stupid/etc' and convert now to change that!" I really don't care what others think of me, yet when that affects me, in a way I don't appreciate it, I get irritated.

If someone thinks I'm evil, that's great. If someone thinks I'm gay, or stupid, or too loud, or whatever, fine. It's when I end up forced to deal with a confrontation that I don't want, which I am condemned for something that is, and never has hurt anyone. If I walked into a Catholic church, in the middle of a service, handed out pamphlets for my religion, and started condemning every single person there for believing in "<insert negative commentary> religion" they would be pretty pissed off. They'd probably chase me out of there. Yet, they think I'm crazy when they come after me and I tell them to get lost.

They won't allow the thought, or possibility of converting to another religion, yet see nothing at all wrong with forcing their own on other people. It's hypocrasy, plain and simple.

As to the mention of telemarketer's and commercials and such, telemarketer's were forced to allow those they call to request to be removed from their calling list. Commercials, you can change the channel, or turn off the tv. Some of these people, the more you turn them away, the closer they stick to you. If it was a matter in which there was something I was doing that was bothering someone, or causing a problem, I'd expect people to want to argue and resolve it. Chasing someone down to argue who's right over a belief is a different situation entirely. My being robbed, and my chasing the person down to demand to know why that had happened or get my money back is just not the same as my being confronted about my religious beliefs and having to force the person away, or hide to get rid of them.

[Xandax]

I wouldn't say it bother me. Religous advertisment is not really worse in my view then all sorts of other advertisment.
I just laugh it up and go back to my life ignoreing it as I do with all unwanted advertisments.

[Demortis]

Yes, i kind of find it offencive. I have had a Mormon(think thats how its spelled) Boy Scout walk up to me and asked if I was a Mormon. I politly told him no, but he kept asking why. I admit, I have a unique veiw that I have found. Darwinism and God. God created us to be become better through evolution. I understand not everyone thinks this is right, but I was told "thats BS" and spit upon, I kinda get pissed. Doing the sensible thing, I turned and walked away.

I've heard a saying from somewhere but cant remember where. It says, " Why is there enough Religion to incite war, but not enough to instill tolerance." I have to agree with this saying. Everyone (religiouswise) is out to convert everyone else, like its a big game of chess. If the US is the land of tolerance, where is it?

[stramoski]

Well, If that kind of preaching gives them something, I'd say let them to it. Just stay out of my face. For some, belief in a religion is a very calming thing, and if that provides them happiness, they may simply want to share that happiness with others.

Now, that having been said, I'm also the guy who asked a Jehovah's Witness why he thought that Jesus was worthy of adulation, but Hercules wasn't. I was just having fun with him, but he didn't take the jibe very lightly.

My advice, then was to not argue about truths based on faith. They were true to him, some are true to me, but acting like any will be for everyone is silly.

I consider myself a christain, but just because I agree with most of the philosophy behind that religion, and because that's how I was raised. But I don't do anything because "God told me," I do things because they make sense.

And I ignore anyone who doesn't let their own good sense prevail.

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=fable]In a word, yes. I find it extremely offensive that somebody would attempt to convert me, and what's more, would use the kind of ridiculous arguments that might be suspect by a five-year-old, such as you find in those pamphlets.[/QUOTE]

Fable sums it up pretty well. I also hate people that keep rubbing your face on the bible, saying it is the absolute truth, that the bible was writen by god through the people, that the bible has not been changed for 2000 years, stuff like that. I get really sad/mad about it. Specially when people get to know I'm not catholic/christian, they keep poking me with arguments like "God can change your life" "I believe, you dont?" and sometimes quoting the bible.

[Kipi]

I've to agree, those people who are trying to convert you are VERY annoying, especially if they don't leave you alone when you have clearly said "no".

Here is an example from last week what happened to me:
I was walking in local supermarket (or whatever you call those place where are dozens of smaller or bigger shops in one building). Suddenly, a person started to talk to me, offering somekinds of leaflets. The person was trying to convert me. Well, I said "no, I'm not interested" and turned away. The person grapped my shirt and said something that I MUST listen to him. The religion was somekind of Christian religion, can't remember the name anymore.
Wel, as a fanatic heavy/power/death/doom metal fan, I begun to get irritated, and I just said that "go to hell and leave me alone". At that point, the person started to calling me as a heretic and disbeliever and such things. And there were about dozens of people staring at me and this person.

And all I just wanted was to go to buy some new cd's.

[C Elegans]

I don't feel offended by religious propaganda. I think it is highly immoral. That's two different things. For me to be offended, it must be a personal insult directed specifically towards me. For instance, I don't feel offended by racism, or prejudice towards homosexual people. I think it is morally unacceptable. It's a value, not a feeling.

Religious propaganda using scare tactics are among the lower human behaviours we have seen is this world, especially when targetting vulnerable people such as children, poor peopole, ill people, interns in jail, people who abuse drugs etc. It's completely disgusting.

[Fiberfar]

[QUOTE=Kipi]I've to agree, those people who are trying to convert you are VERY annoying, especially if they don't leave you alone when you have clearly said "no".

Here is an example from last week what happened to me:
I was walking in local supermarket (or whatever you call those place where are dozens of smaller or bigger shops in one building). Suddenly, a person started to talk to me, offering somekinds of leaflets. The person was trying to convert me. [/QUOTE]

Hehehe.....I had a visitor on the door the other day...What do you call them, Jehova's witnesses? ( a religious group at any rate). She would not leave me alone even as I rolled my eyes once and twice. Too bad my sister didn't open the door....The poor woman would either have a heart attack or try to convert her....She is a Black metal maniac of the worst sort

[Kipi]

[QUOTE=Fiberfar]Hehehe.....I had a visitor on the door the other day...What do you call them, Jehova's witnesses? ( a religious group at any rate). She would not leave me alone even as I rolled my eyes once and twice. Too bad my sister didn't open the door....The poor woman would either have a heart attack or try to convert her....She is a Black metal maniac of the worst sort [/QUOTE]

Hehee, I know. Few months ago I was going to metal concert to other city. I had to leave in middle of day and was preparing things when someone ringed the doorbell. It was one of those Jehova's witnessess. Well, I had my metal-concert clothing on and I was just listening Sentenced's cd, from their Doom Metal time. There was just section where Jarva (singer)shouted/growled "DIE!!!" when I opened the door. You should have seen the face of that guy

[Aegis]

It used to bother me when people would hand me religious documents, but as I came to learn, and study religions, as well as politics, it stopped bothering me. The reason it doesn't bother me, is because it is still up to me whether I listen, or even convert. how much the persist is up to them. It's their own time they're wasting.

Besides, I used to have fun with the Jehova Witness's that came to my house (they no longer come). One time, when they asked if I had found Jesus, I said no, and then asked them if they had found Allah. The second, I answered the door butt-naked.

[C Elegans]

@Kipi & Fiberfar: Apart from the normal surprise reaction to loud sounds, I honestly I don't think Jehovas Witness people get shocked or provoced by Heavy metal. Since they go around and knock on people's doors, they are probably like hotel workers - they have seen it all...
Besides, isn't there a very large group of christian heavy metal bands?

[Kipi]

It used to bother me when people would hand me religious documents, but as I came to learn, and study religions, as well as politics, it stopped bothering me. The reason it doesn't bother me, is because it is still up to me whether I listen, or even convert. how much the persist is up to them. It's their own time they're wasting.

Besides, I used to have fun with the Jehova Witness's that came to my house (they no longer come). One time, when they asked if I had found Jesus, I said no, and then asked them if they had found Allah. The second, I answered the door butt-naked.

Yup, that's good way to ensure they won't come back. My friend once let them in, let them speak about 2 hours (yes, he hadn't anything better to do ) and after that said something like this: "I'll consider you religion if you consider my religion" and gave some buddha-leaflets to them. Of course, my friend isn't buddhish, he just got those leaflets somewhere. After that, witnessess never bothered to visit him

Kipi & Fiberfar: Apart from the normal surprise reaction to loud sounds, I honestly I don't think Jehovas Witness people get shocked or provoced by Heavy metal. Since they go around and knock on people's doors, they are probably like hotel workers - they have seen it all...
Besides, isn't there a very large group of christian heavy metal bands?

Firstly, I didn't say they all would, but in my case the person did. Not sure why, but it actually had to do with music and my appearance, cause he left right away, didn't say anything.

Secondly, about those bands, of course there are. For example Nightwish has very close relation with christian religion, it's keyboardplayer/song maker is VERY religious guy and IIRC he has studied at least one point to priest. And myself, even when I'm metal-fan, I'm also christian and I also believe to God. The thing what I can't stand is things in church and the way they think or demand us to think. I just don't trust church anymore as much as I used to, but my believe in God hasn't changed a bit.
For example, I can't understand why in our country church and those who are very much doing with church demand that cause something is said in The Bible, it should be also said in law (like gaymariages and gay/lesbian couple adopting or having a child).

[Fiberfar]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Kipi & Fiberfar: Apart from the normal surprise reaction to loud sounds, I honestly I don't think Jehovas Witness people get shocked or provoced by Heavy metal. Since they go around and knock on people's doors, they are probably like hotel workers - they have seen it all...
Besides, isn't there a very large group of christian heavy metal bands?[/QUOTE]

There are many christian heavy metal bands. But you see, my sister is more of a satanic person rather than a christian

A friend of mine once had the Jehova's witnesses on the door. They said to him : "We are sent by God". He replied : "So he didn't have time to come himself?"

This was not meant to mock them, but he simply answers like that to everyone that goes from door to door....

[C Elegans]

There are many christian heavy metal bands. But you see, my sister is more of a satanic person rather than a christian

Satanism share a lot of beliefs with christianity. Do you really think a Jehovas Witness care if other people are satanists or sikhists or atheists? I sincerely think that people who belong to different subgroups, like goth or heavy metal or punk or whatever, overestimate how "shocked" other people are by them. Come on, not even my 90-year old christian grandma cared about heavy metal fans stating they were "satanists"

A friend of mine once had the Jehova's witnesses on the door. They said to him : "We are sent by God". He replied : "So he didn't have time to come himself?"

Sure, it's easy to make fun of brainwashed people, but I find much more problematic is that a large number of cults, religious and non-religious, exist and attach members to them and brainwash them through different programs. Jehovas witness is only one of many cults that are classified as destructive cults by the international criteria. Such cults often target young people, or people that are in a vulnerable position for different reasons, and use sophisticated strategies of mind control to influence them. Some of these cults even have political power, and some are highly successful in spreading their ideas to the public in an undercover way. One example is the Scientologists, who are trying to scare people from seeking medical and especially psychiatric health care in several Western countries.

[Fiberfar]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Satanism share a lot of beliefs with christianity. Do you really think a Jehovas Witness care if other people are satanists or sikhists or atheists? I sincerely think that people who belong to different subgroups, like goth or heavy metal or punk or whatever, overestimate how "shocked" other people are by them. Come on, not even my 90-year old christian grandma cared about heavy metal fans stating they were "satanists" [/QUOTE]

I promise, that my sister would do everything she could to get the lady away from our house. She might have encountered people like that before.. That doesn't stop my sister though ( I think she would make a funny scene out of it)
[QUOTE=C Elegans]
Sure, it's easy to make fun of brainwashed people, but I find much more problematic is that a large number of cults, religious and non-religious, exist and attach members to them and brainwash them through different programs. Jehovas witness is only one of many cults that are classified as destructive cults by the international criteria. Such cults often target young people, or people that are in a vulnerable position for different reasons, and use sophisticated strategies of mind control to influence them. Some of these cults even have political power, and some are highly successful in spreading their ideas to the public in an undercover way. One example is the Scientologists, who are trying to scare people from seeking medical and especially psychiatric health care in several Western countries.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, many cults are destructive. And yes, many members are brainwashed. You mentioned that they could get a powerful hold on the socciety by spreading their ideas in an undercover way. Would the old cult in Guyana serve as such an example? (forgot the name)

Edit: I think my sister is one of those "satanists". At one point she will realise that it is stupid to act like something and quit