Different gaming experience

KillerKid · Post by **KillerKid** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 10:58 am

well tehcnaly you can justify anything and tehcnaly the game is bs you all know when you kill the monsters sometimes they go into pieces that is the kinda time when you cant ressurct, but they dont let that happen to characters but like when khalad died that is tehcnaly what happened that is the way you can justify anything because my character wasnt hacked and slashed i can just revive as many times as i want also the way to justify reloads is that your main character should be abled to be ressurceted why can they be but not me well ill just reload. so you can tehcnaly justify anything hell tell me soemthing and ill justify it for you. that is also the power of logic because in logic you can justify anything

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 11:22 am

kid, have you ever read any Faulkner?

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 11:22 am

@killerkid

Your points resound true, however, I fail to see what logic has to do with this discussion. We are talking about a simulation of a world that doesn't even exist. Also, I believe some of my characters have been minced into tiny pieces before although that could have petrification and not damage dealt from claws, weapons, etc..

BG2 for me has little to do with justification and logic, I get enough of that at work and in my life at home. I use BG2 to attain the illogical and to escape to something I used to play with pen, paper, and dice when I was younger and had more time. I would still play PnP DnD if the same group of people could fit in three six hour time slots a week but you can't justify that, it isn't possible.

Furthermore, we don't have to justify or logically define the BG2 setting we are trying to create. There is simply an interest here to add certain elements to the experience that the game nor it's engine can create for the users. This is something else Bioware/black isle has had in it's intentions all along. DnD is all about imagination and while they could provide the world, it's up to the people to create the adventure.

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 11:35 am

@Ned..Here, here!

zeyk · Post by **zeyk** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 12:57 pm

Very interesting thread. I too have been guilty of reloading the game when one of my NPCs dies at an "inconvenient" time. This action, however leaves me with a feeling of unease and diminshes the immersion factor and sense of adventure.

So I have decided to incorporate character deaths into the story like Ned suggested. I think this will make the gaming experience much richer. This playing style is reminescent of Diablo II Hardcore mode (no flames please).

Now, the problem is what if Edwin is your only mage and he bites the dust. I can see this as being a great setback for the group as there is no other mage that approaches Edwin in power. It certainly makes you play more cautiously always sending summoned critters to absorb the "instant death" spells, wing buffets, etc.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 1:09 pm

@zeyk,

that's part of the thrill of forcing yourself to play without the quick save. You must really protect edwin because if he kicks and you can't get him back, you're going to need imoen or nalia because aerie or jan can't be your primary mage.

McBane · Post by **McBane** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 2:11 pm

@ ned

Conan as chaotic neutral? I agree he doesn't follow any laws (except his own), he is almost always depicted as a "good" hero. Sure he is a thief, but his foes are usually evil. (I'm sure this makes the books a better read)

Anyway, I have been reading posts on this forum for a long time, without many posts myself, (I am worried I'm becoming too voryueristic) and I thought this was a great thread. I too, fall into the quick save mode, and will try honorably to alter the heavy use of that crutch.

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 2:15 pm

Originally posted by McBane:
@ ned

Conan as chaotic neutral? I agree he doesn't follow any laws (except his own), he is almost always depicted as a "good" hero.

I too, fall into the quick save mode, and will try honorably to alter the heavy use of that crutch.

@McBane..I agree. Chaotic good is probably a more apt alignment.

"crutch"..very apt word for reload.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:20 pm

To mcbane and fezk

Very well. You've sold me on the chaotic good alignment. Thanks for the input.

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:27 pm

Originally posted by Ned Flanders:
To mcbane and fezk

Very well. You've sold me on the chaotic good alignment. Thanks for the input.

Glad to help. Tells us how it goes.
Somebody else is doing the Lord Of the Rings thing, but hasn't told the story yet.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:29 pm

Chaotic neutral, i believe, borders more on insanity. while i am not in the least bit a conan buff, i would be willing to bet that he wasn't insane...just followed his own code of ethics to better serve good. So, if i'm correct, i think as said above chaotic good would be more accurate.

by the way, i once brought this up, but most ppl weren't as receptive to the idea of "moving on" with the deaths of their npc's. Since i have a total lack of willpower, i then decided to just reload if an npc wasn't resurrectable. Seeing those of you who are going to make an effort to play in this manner, however, i think i'll try to do the same.

General · Post by **General** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 10:09 pm

I would be interested in the different "stories" of your party if you are so inclined to type them up

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 10:24 pm

@edwin and others interested in this thread

made it through Irenicus level one without a quick save. Amazing that a spell like grease can save your rear. It was difficult resisting the temptation of the quick save 'crutch'.

made Conan CG barbarian 18/83 18 18 8 10 10. Yeah, the dex is probably to high but hey, I scored 82 ability points. In retrospect, wisdom and charisma should be higher but I caved and gave in to the 18 dex. Give me a break, there is no longer a 'q' on my keyboard.

Question: What level should I dual to a thief. Trying to hold out until 12th and then completing all side quests before going to spellhold. Also, do anyone know if adding the patch which provides all character class quests will affect ToB.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 10:27 pm

General,

I am adding entries to my journal in the game. Not sure how I would transfer them to text files. Probably a way. This board has already provided numerous additions to the game.

General · Post by **General** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 12:09 am

perhaps take screen shots of the journal?

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 12:36 am

I'm some of you are interested in this question....i think that playing this way you'll have to plan your battles in a better way. I mean, before you go fighting kangaxx or a dragon you'll now wait until you are high lvl....not like i go in the beginning so that i'll have that powerful item early

And the tactic will change i think, as the Edwin example has showed.....
Continue posting, i think the problem is worth a good discussion.

@Ned: thanks for the private message....write me when you want.

I'll start my new game today and keep you updated tomorrow

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 2:27 am

Originally posted by average joe:
Chaotic neutral, i believe, borders more on insanity.

Again, a bit of stereotyping. Chaotic means they are individualistic or do not wish to regulate society. Neutral means they don't feel compelled to do the right thing. Where did "insane" come in?

Well... AD&D put it in there. For some reason, whoever wrote the Alignment descriptions for AD&D thought that Chaotic meant something different to Good, Neutral or Evil people. I find this rather unpleasant, especially since AD&D uses Alignment more as a straightjacket than a guideline. I fail to see why a True Neutral and a Chaotic Neutral cannot have the same views on Good and Evil.

henhen · Post by **henhen** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:51 am

yeah, it's a good idea, maybe i'll try this at my next game. But IMO,we should still be allowed to resurrect the NPC if possible (not hacked to pieces)

Fezek · Post by **Fezek** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 12:25 pm

@Ned-san. yeah, stay as Barb until you go down to spellhold. Then dual to a thief. Don't know about the patch thing. incidentally, is anybody on your team?

KaaZe · Post by **KaaZe** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 12:30 pm

If you set the game on Core Rules you will know when you cant get NPC's back to life... they dont appear on your left anymore. Other then that I dont see any reason you cant got to a temple or similar.

But anyway, this is a nice idea.. I just feel that it would be sooo much cooler if it was played multiplayer(With this I mean with other players, not just a multiplayer game with created characters). Then you dont need that dumb computer AI to make some of your moves. I dont remember how the journal works in multiplayer, but it could be cool to have personal entries like:
"Again Conan(Other player) almost cost us the battle with his stupid charge tactics. If only the others had waited for my spell to be casted... but they will learn and see me as the true party leader.

just a thought...