spoiler? tob solo k/m powergaming dualwielding weapon choice/other related questions

[wby87]

hi to all, new to the forum

I need suggestion for my new solo k/m, a LG fighter with 19 str, dex, con, int, and 11 wis and cha, who just soloed bg1. I'm planning to dual him at lv 13(by the way, any suggestion on the dualing lv? I think 13 is the best/most realistic one--to solo a kensai to lv 21 AND a mage to lv22 from lv1 would be a REAL chanllenge...).

I have actually started a game already. I have done all the quests I can do in chapter 2 in this game, and I ended up with a 13k/25m with about 5million exp (sorry, I cheesed about 1 million for reactivate kensai). I had 5 star in katana, 3 in dualwielding, and eventually 5 in staff.

I have to say that he is a VERY powerful at PRESENT; I dualwield CF and Dak'kon's. and I was planning on using the staff of magi/ram and maybe hindo's doom later in tob. but then I realized that it is silly to put proficiencies in BOTH dualwielding and 2 handed weapon, since I will not get the dualwiedling bonus for my staff, and switching between the two types can be ANNOYING. so here I am now, ready to restart the game (I dont like to use sk; and also I want to try to reactivate my kensai without abuse the bridge quest), and ready to choice some other weapon.

I've searched/read most k/m posts already, including one that discusses dualwielding vs. staff (that's where i got my idea of putting proficiency points in these two weapons). I agree that k/m is POWERFUL regardless of weapon choice. But still, I wonder what are the best single-hand weapons k/m can dualwield in tob.

To get this started, here are few weapons that I have thought about:
Long Swords:
black razor: VERY NICE but very LATE
answerer: i do not remember where it is, so I'm not sure if it will be too late to use. Although -ac/mr is kinda nice.
i can not use equalizer due to my alignment (its not that powerful anyway). and i think Angurvadal is not among the MOST powerful weapon either.

Flail:
foa: a kensai with a flail? well, i guess it is a kensai with a POWERFUL flail at least...

Axe:
Axe of the Unyielding: a kensai with a axe? well, at least it have a edge and it is probably even more powerful than foa.

Hammer:
CF: a kensai with a hammer.(btw, can CF slay fire gaints? that would be nice.)

Wakizashi & Ninja-To/ Scimitar:
Defender+5: I have this from bg1 (proudly: I killed Drizzit all by myself ...with about 40 arrows of denotation…--), so it is a good choice earlier in the game. (btw, it hit as +5 right?)
Belm: many dualwielder's off-hand choice.
Kachiko's: can it drain wisdom fast enough to kill a monster before i hack it into pieces??
Scarlet Ninja-To: can this replace Belm?
Spectral Brand: VERY NICE in tob?
there are alot of good wakizashi/ninja-to/scimitars for ALL phases of game, so I think it is worth putting 5 star in. anyone else?

Bastard sword:
Foebane: just average...

Katana:
CF: very POWERFUL. but are there any monsters that can not be hit with +3? this is my first "warrior" solo, and in my other games, there was always Minsc with FOA&Crom...

these are all the good weapons for a bloodthirsting k/m that I can think of. I dont think there are any good daggers/clubs for a k/m, and the two good maces (disruption&storm star) are at most average for a k/m too.

btw, when you dual to mage, can you avoid spending that 1 proficiences at lv 1? because the only 1 hand weapon a mage can choice is dagger. what a waste.

so here it is, I have said all i know about weapons. And my current plan is to dual either axe and scimitar, or maybe katana and scimitar, or maybe long sword with scimitar. Please share your MOST lethal kensai/mage's build> and if you can remember, please write a little about gaining back those 1 million exp for reactivate kensai too (the main problem is, as many of you've already know, how to gain 1 million exp with a lv 1 mage since I'll need the 2 proficiency point for my kensai weapons.)

Once again, thanks a lot if you've read all the above (I know it is long and probably confusing), and also if you think any two-handed weapon for a k/m can be even MORE POWERFUL than dual wielding, please post them too.

Btw, if there are any errors, I would appreciate if you point it out.
PS: if you know any posts that deal with dualwielding for a k/m, please give me the address, thanks.
PS2: I have all the "semi offical" mods for TOB installed, and I am planning to try the insane level (200% dmg, but i'll max the life roll and learn all my spells). maybe this will affect some choices?

[krunchyfrogg]

Hey.

1)I highly recommend the Equalizer as an offhand weapon. You can use it, I don't understand why you say that you can not. It's immunities are amazing (esp. for a solo character) and it's bonuses apply to the main hand weapon as well!!!

2)The two best one handed weapons in SoA are Celestial Fury and the Flail of Ages. Most prefer CF, but the FoA is needed for many golems, and there's no save against it's effects.

3)In ToB, you'll want to go with the Axe of Unyeilding. Heck, if you're feeling daring, (I know it's too late now), I'd bypass the Katana proficiencies and go with Axes and grab the AoU+3 early in SoA. You'll have to be very good and very lucky to grab this as a solo fighter. If you go this route, concentrate on Flails, Axes, and dual-weilding before dual-classing. BTW, get ** in Axes, Flails (and Longswords if you can) and *** in TWF before anything else. In Baldur's Gate II, the benefits are minimal above ** anyway. Axe is also a great choice because you can (yes even a Kensai) use throwing axes.

[wby87]

why equalizer? if i remembered corretly, it has immune to charm (do enemies in tob charm alot? the only time i've used spell immunity: enchantment in my last game was against the sewer mindflayers. i also have cloack of balduran from bg1, and with a ok saving throw, charm/confusion rarely hit me.) and adds 6 damages but does nothing else. and I think it needs the character to be neutural to use it(correct me if im wrong, i've never used this sword to be honest)
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krunchyfrogg
"2)The two best one handed weapons in SoA are Celestial Fury and the Flail of Ages. Most prefer CF, but the FoA is needed for many golems, and there's no save against it's effects."

I had a ranger dualwielding these 2 weapons, I agree that it is VERY POWERFUL in SoA, but i think there are better choices in tob. In my last game (13k/25m), I had foa in my second weapon slot for golems, and it hits ok without any proficiency points.
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krunchyfrogg
"In Baldur's Gate II, the benefits are minimal above ** anyway."

kinda true, but more critical hits is very nice too(hmm...I just looked in the game, but it doesn't have this. maybe i'm wrong, but don't you get your critical hit roll lowered by 1 or 2 (a critical hit when roll 18,19 AND 20) with high mastery and grand mastery? ) . but i think when you can put proficiency points in 2 weapons and used them all the time, why spend it on something else?
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krunchyfrogg
"In ToB, you'll want to go with the Axe of Unyeilding."

agree. and I don't think i'll need to grab it very early, the normal +3 dont have the 10% instant kill (i think). there are many ok axes in soa too that will work in the early game.
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krunchyfrogg
"because you can (yes even a Kensai) use throwing axes."

I'll look up some throwing axes, hope they are good ones. I'm used to energy blade
thanks for reply

[krunchyfrogg]

The critical hit bonus you're thinking of comes with single weapon style, not from increased weapon specialization.

[wby87]

yeah, I checked it out. thanks for pointing that out, I alway assumed the one-handed/two handed style just give you bonus ac/speed.

[wby87]

I thought about my question again. and now I realized that what i am really asking is WHAT IS THE BEST DUALWIELDING COMBINATION FOR FIGHTER, since the weapon have nothing to do with the k/m class. the title is kind misleading, and I bet a lot of people would not even come in because of "k/m powergaming" in the title. so if you have read this thread and know something about dualwielding weaponry, please post your suggestions, thanks.
ps: I think many players, if not most, who have Minsc in their party would give him FOA/Crom and make him a very good killing machine; and like krunchyfrogg said, FOA/CF is also another BEST combination in SOA. but these two are just...too common and "too SOA," so please post some other combination, I really believe with all the new and powerful weapons in TOB, there are better combinations.
ps2: I also looked up posts in sorcerer's place, and I still can not find any thread/poll that agree on what is the best dualwielding combination. I know the game is old and there are probably posts that talks about what I'm asking now, so again i would really appericiate if you can give me an address.

[krunchyfrogg]

The best offhand weapons, IMHO, are:

1)Crom Faeyr. A 25 Strength is incredible.
2)Belm. The extra attack is made with your main hand weapon.
3)Equalizer. Awesome immunities, bonuses are added to main hand weapon.

Those are not in any order, make your choice.

BTW, if your offhand weapon is chosen just to have an extra attack, do yourself a favor and strap a shield on... you're wasting your time (except with Kensai, who can't use a shield).

[FireLighter]

I never did get the greatness of belm... In my oponion the better damage is better than one extra attack. Other than that I agree with your other offhand weapons.

Also maybe Dakkons zerth for the added spells? (If you plan on going into SoA as well.)

[krunchyfrogg]

FL, Belm is good because it gives your most powerful weapon (the one in the primary hand) and extra attack.

[wby87]

I'm actually thinking about blackrazor. I think the draining/boosting are more powerful than Crom Faeyr since it seems that i always end up having 25 strength after a battle with blackzaor (and dont forget the hp boost). althought the problem is wether it will hit that many time to get these bonuses as a off hand weapon.

krunchyfrogg
"3)Equalizer. Awesome immunities, bonuses are added to MAIN HAND WEAPON."
really? that's awsome! with black razor, equalizer and anwserer later on, long sword definitly seem worth some proficiency points in it. (blackrazor just seems a little bit more bloodier than the other two imo)

so what about main hand weapon? axe of unyielding or foa+5? maybe I should put them both in the quickweapon slot since foa come handy with dealing with mages? but on another thought, shouldn't i just dual these two?

and what about scimitars? spectral brand's the ability to raise thac0 to +10 seems pretty cool? but i guess comparing to those weapons above, scimitars seems just a little less powerful.

edit:
btw, I used Zerth in my last game and the bonus seemed insignificant. all it gives are extra 1-4 level spells, which for me is a magic missle, a acid arrow, a skull trap, and a minor sequencer - for a lv 20+ mage, i would rather use the rounds for a horrid wilting

[FireLighter]

I only used it when I was in a 6 person party so, it wasnt it was significant since I gained levels so slowly.

[krunchyfrogg]

If you're sticking Blackrazor in your off-hand, you're basically wasting it.

You'll only be getting 1 ApR with itm and that one is less likely to hit than your primary weapon.

Of course you'll still benefit from the immunities and regeneration, but that level draining/hasting effect won't happen too often.

You also mentioned that your character will be LG, so he won't be able to get the Blackrazor (unless you're super cheesey and have imported a certain item from BGI!).

[wby87]

1 apr is the problem. but it might just work ok under tenser's transformation or a high lv figher thac0 and say greater ww? (on a second thought, I might just being silly here. and also I guess it wont be possible if i dual my kensai at 13 again in this game, so im thinking about dualing at lv21 now...)
I dont think it is super cheesey since Im almost pure powergaming in this game (and besides, its just a sword.) and i can at least just turn evil (again, not really role playing here) if i want to get it the proper way
btw, the way i remembered to aquire the sword does not need anything from bg1(I aquired blackrazor in 2 past games, one game a evil party, another the cheesey way. but I will import a couple of items in this game for a little boost and for a little reward of going through the entire bg1 , i.e. balduran's cloak), can you explain your way?
ps: I'm reading a post that i did not find last time about dualwielding, it might just solve the problem

[krunchyfrogg]

The way I'm talking about is by using the helm of opposite alignment.

You won't turn evil if you're already a bad guy, and you just need a remove curse afterwards to take the helmet off.

[Sytze]

You might want to try [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63427&highlight=Equalizer"]http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63427&highlight=Equalizer[/url] this link, and the link posted in that thread. It may help you decide more easily.

[lompo]

Why don't you stay with one of your first option: staves?
Those are great options for k/m: you get very goods very early (Rynn, elementals, SoM(!!!)) you don't need to many prof. points. As great weapons you have SoM (super great for a solo character) and staff of the Ram (the maximum dmg achievable). On creation I would get 2 * in great swords too (some nice options early on), and as first * when dualling get daggers (throwing daggers!).

[Minerva]

@wby

I've got a basic question: Do you have to be dual classed?

I just thought, as you are to solo, the multi class might fit better than dual class.
The disadvantage of levelling slowly shouldn't be a problem if you are alone.
Then, if you are to dual class, you will miss out on Kensai's HLA. In my opinion, it is more advantage to have Fighter's HLA than Mage HLA, if you are fighte/mage of any sort. Mages just gains a few more high level spells, and they still have to be memorized as a part of 9th level spells. Fighters' HLA, on the other hand, you can get as many Greater Whirlwind as you like.

I personally create fighter->mage, but that is because I like a mage who can use weapon properly. So she (my pc is always a female) is more of a mage than fighter.
However, from your posts, you seem in need of good Kensai abilities to solo, and if that is the case, I don't know why you want him/her to be dual class.

[wby87]

thanks Sytze, I was reading that post last night, and i saw lot of good combinations in there

to knuklefrog: the cheesy way I used is with the circlet of mindflayers (pointed out by Use R. Unfriendly on gamefaq), which allow me to give the dinnji the sword first for the good tear, but when he starts to demension door, i charm him and kill him to take the sword back (too evil, i admit ). but helm alignment change sounds interesting! i never tried it but ill import it this time and test it out

to Minerva: well, i know a muti f/m is probably better in tob since you get a decent thac0 and a nice ac with the elven chain and nice skills even AFTER you get your magical boost stripped down by the enermy mages. but unfortunatly i played a pure fighter in bg1 this time and i really want to solo the whole serie with him. but i also mentioned in the previous reply that i am "thinking" about soloing him to lv 21 and then dual mage (i might cheese the experience here with the tanner quest bridge district/other quest, it is more fun to play a k/m than a single class mage, and i think it wouldnt be a problem even if i decided to not cheese the experience - although then i would lost those proficieny points 'cause i really dont think a lv 1 mage can gain 2-3 million exp points without leveling up...), so this way i get a decend thac0 and the end product is similiar to a muti class fighter/mage.

to lompo: well, the first game kinda did not work out in term of proficiency since staff can not be wield singlehanded. (but dont get me wrong, i think the char, 13k/25m, is definitly still able finish that game even with a dagger ) i thought about using two handed weapons i.e. 2hsword/staff. but i think that style is better for a kensai/thief(i played one) with holy avenger being the regular weapon and staff of ram for backstab. i can not do either of them with my k/m, so i choose dualwielding instead.

i think most of my other questions are answered but still i do not know what is the BEST combination. anyone want to discuss/vote/say out loud the BEST combination?

edit:spaced out
ps:I am thinking axe of unyielding as main hand and ...honestly dont know off hand...maybe blackrazor...maybe crom...

[FireLighter]

Short and Sweet

Im thinking black razor in main hand, crom in off hand.

[krunchyfrogg]

Minerva's right, BTW. Multiclass is more powerful than a Kensai -> Mage, expecially when you have ToB installed.