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16+ in stat eqauls 10% bonus to earned experience

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fable
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Post by fable »

Well, I'd say after me posting in the first post of this thread: "I've tested this, and am 100% certain", that any replies saying "you are wrong" must mean I am lying.

Rav, I have worked with, employed, and worked for people over the past 35 years who were sometimes 100% sure of something, and who were proven wrong. This neither made them liars, nor was pointing out they were wrong a way of calling them such. It merely meant they were that much more certain, but just as wrong. I've been in the same boat myself, able to recall specific facts and visuals supporting a particular view--only to find that I'd been incorrect all along. I may have felt sheepish afterwards depending upon how fervently I argued, but I never felt that the person who fortunately corrected me was calling me a liar.

You might find a visit to SYM, Spear Your Mind, our non-gaming forum on this board, an eye-opener. On it, we discuss and argue in a civilized fashion a variety of questions, frequently correcting one another, and nobody ever believes they're honor is being besmearched when their hard-held facts are questioned.

For the rest, if you haven't tested it with an unpatched game (and we still have people who play that way--even people who prefer that, due to some extra cheese :rolleyes: ), then the jury's still out, in my opinion. I played the game twice with a sorc, and I don't recall the side-benefit you mention. I could be wrong; so could the others that have questioned you. What you've said contradicts my memories, but seems more likely. Still, you could be mistaken, too, and that has nothing to do with one's personal integrity.

One more point, and this is directed at everybody: if this thread turns into a flame arena, posting privileges will be suspended, and the thread closed. The forum's for answering questions, not squabbling angrily.
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Rav
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Post by Rav »

[QUOTE=fable]For the rest, if you haven't tested it with an unpatched game (and we still have people who play that way--even people who prefer that, due to some extra cheese :rolleyes: ), then the jury's still out, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]Well, I am not going to uninstall and reinstall. If anyone desperately feels the need to disprove the "prime requisite 10% XP bonus", I suggest they go right ahead.

I'll just stick to giving my Sorcerers 16 INT thank you very much.

Rav
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Post by southafrica »

I think this thread should be stickied.

Great discovery, and I am sure that it will hold up under extreme scrutiny!

-SA
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Post by Xandax »

Well - I just did some testing with a completely vanilia installation - which means only SoA and no patching done.

I only did some vauge testing and nothing to indeeb, but I'll do more, because this interest me.
Anyways -
I used a human fighter with the following attributes:
Strenght: 14
Dexterity: 8
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 11
Charisma: 14

And I used a elf dual fighter/thief with these attributes:
Strenght: 9
Dexterity: 9
Constitution: 6
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 7
Charisma: 8

Both in party with Imoen
( 9, 18, 16,17,11,16)
when she disarms the trap and unlocks the painting and the fighter solo killing the mephit (my f/t died trying to do so solo :D )

My findings are that both characters + imoen got 10% to the XP listed.

The trap gives 1750 to disarm, but both characters + imoen had gained: 962 XP for that - well actually the pure fighter had gained 963, but that is because of the leftover 1 point. (962+962 +1 = 1750 + 10% / 2)

The fighter did also gain 10% extra from the solo kill of the mephit.

A few screens from my multiclass: (sorry about the size, but I'm to lazy to resize and prettify :D )
[url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/images/beforetrap.jpg"]Before the trap: 44500 on both classes[/url]
[url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/images/trap.jpg"]Imoen disarms a trap giving 1750 XP[/url]
[url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/images/aftertrap.jpg"]Character has 44981 on both classes[/url]
44981-44500 = 481
481 x 2 = 962
1750 + 10% = 962,5
Conclusion - my character (and Imoen,I have screens of her as well) both recived 10% bonus, while this character indeed does not have any 16+ attributes.

For information, then it does seem the 10% bonus gets added prior to the splitting of XP because my pure figther actually recived 963 while Imoen recived 962 for the trap.

My first thought is it might be a rules/difficulty thing this bonus - but strange indeed.
I'll hopefully have some time to test various patches (pre ToB and post ToB) and various classes in various difficulty settings this weekend, to see if I can find some pattern.

This is interesting, I wonder why there seemingly is 10% bonus added and then why they didn't just simply add it to the displayed gain?
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Post by Rav »

Are you saying you simply always get the 10% bonus to xp, regardless of prime stat? That would be incredibly odd. Let me test this out as well, with adjsuted difficulty.

Edit: I suppose what I said is true in a way. Characters with a 16 do get 10% bonus. Problem is: so does everybody else... Even on impossible difficulty. Everyone, go back to your 10 INT sorcerers! Nothing to see here!

I suppose I should have been a bit more scientific and added a control group...

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Post by southafrica »

So basically when expienced is gained, it checks to see if anyone has above a 16 in a prim req. than adds it to the overall experience?

If that is the case, has anyone tested a group where no one has a 16 or above?

-SA
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Post by Xandax »

I tested solo with no stats above 16 and it still gave 10% bonus. So far every scenario I've tested has yielded 10% bonus to listed XP for some reason.
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Post by southafrica »

Perhaps they figured since you could roll until you were satisfied, that instead of trying to have it calculate all experience based your stats, it just gives everyone a 10% increase?

-SA
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Xandax
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Post by Xandax »

Then why not show that you earn 462 XP instead of 420 XP and then "stealth give" you the last 42? That isn't logical.

But perhaps it is just some (major) "easter egg" thingy
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southafrica
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Post by southafrica »

Well, maybe because the exp is derived from the 2nd Edition Monsterous manual, and the 10% is considered an character modification? (this is mere speculation)

-SA
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Post by Berethor »

All that I know is that the Experience bonus was implemented somehow, maybe by the patch but I don't know.

Take the fact that when you create a fighter/ranger/paladin it starts off with the same experience that minsc has, but take a look and compare agter a couple of kills. Yours will be a little higher.
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Post by Xandax »

[QUOTE=Berethor]All that I know is that the Experience bonus was implemented somehow, maybe by the patch but I don't know.

Take the fact that when you create a fighter/ranger/paladin it starts off with the same experience that minsc has, but take a look and compare agter a couple of kills. Yours will be a little higher.[/QUOTE]

If your read my post, you'll see that my testing took place on a straight from the (EU) CD installed version where the XP bonus seems to be in effect for all.

As for the "yours will be a little higher" that difference could come from both personal awarded XP and the fact that your PC gets the rounded off (whole) XP leftovers.
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Post by dj_venom »

Well that is extremely odd.

There is something I have thought of...

In IWD2 (not sure about 1, I only have 2) there was something implemented where your level affected experience received. So a weak vs weak fight would yeild more experience than a strong vs weak fight, to discourage people trying to gain unlimited exp from monsters, and to make it more realistic. However this then spawned the idea of people level squatting.... anyway, back to the idea.

I suggest that someone create a high level solo character, and then go back and verse something as simple as a goblin, or another weak monster. See how much experience you then receive. There is the possibility that the 10% is not for the stat, but for your current level.

If any could test this theory, I would appreciate it, I haven't the time to test it now, though I might.

And sorry about before Fable :) .
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Post by Xandax »

I had a similar thought that it might be a level modifier which did it (as per NwN as well), so I'll install Shadowkeeper and make a high level character killing of some goblins this weekend (unless somebody beats me to it).
Testing it with a larger group will also be something I Need to do - such as releasing Minsc and Jaheria and see if they also get a 10% bonus.

There are many circumstance which needs to be tested to find some pattern in this - i just find it strange it is there to begin with, and that seemingly nobody has made some noise about it before Rav (okay - so I haven't searched all the forum but I never recall seeing a discussion about this before ) :)
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Post by dj_venom »

[QUOTE=Xandax]I had a similar thought that it might be a level modifier which did it (as per NwN as well), so I'll install Shadowkeeper and make a high level character killing of some goblins this weekend (unless somebody beats me to it).
Testing it with a larger group will also be something I Need to do - such as releasing Minsc and Jaheria and see if they also get a 10% bonus.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for trying, I look forward to the results.

I'm also going to try and look at other rules etc. to see if there could be another reason for this 'hidden' exp bonus.
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Post by Xandax »

[QUOTE=dj_venom]Thanks for trying, I look forward to the results.

I'm also going to try and look at other rules etc. to see if there could be another reason for this 'hidden' exp bonus.[/QUOTE]

Rav already mentioend that he got it under Impossible as well, which I think eleminates the need for testing under different rules.
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Post by Ravager »

The thing you describe from NWN and IWDII is the Challenge Rating. If a creature is of a low enough level then less XP (or even none) is awarded. I really don't think there is a similar system in any of the 2nd Edition games.

What if this is a bug where the game reports you get 420XP for killing a Mephit when really you should be getting 462 XP (I didn't spot any tests being run on other monsters within BGII - my apologies if it has). If there is a bug it's conceivable that it applies to all the mephits in the dungeon, maybe even all of the creatures on the 1st floor. Maybe if someone was to sneak past the mephits (the Lightning machine) and defeat some goblins and see if the game misreports XP there too.

Good research anyway Rav. :)
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Post by Xandax »

Well - the added 10% was gained from disarming the trap and unlocking the painting as well as killing the mephit.
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Post by Ravager »

Hmm. It still seems possible that either the game is misreporting XP in the dialog/combat window or misawarding it to the character. Does ShadowKeeper allow you to see the correct amount of XP killing a monster gives (or performing other actions)?

I may check my Prima strategy guide later and see what XP it apportions to a mephit- although the guide isn't strictly reliable.

It just feels like a game bug to me...
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Post by Xandax »

I doubt - if prooving to be consistant - this would be a bug. Bugs generally are unconsistant, sporadic things. This seems way to calculated to be a bug.
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