Frozen through Time

[dragon wench]

Okay, I admit, sometimes I get a kick out of watching Star Trek

Earlier this morning, perhaps as a substitute for Saturday morning cartoons, my partner and I watched an episode of "Next Generation," in which three characters had been frozen upon death, in the hope medical science would one day be able to revive them and cure any ills. And of cource the USS Enterprise found their capsule floating in space....

This got me to thinking....


Imagine this: You die tomorrow, you have your body frozen, and you are revived 400 years into the future. How do you imagine yourself reacting? How do you imagine the future you would find yourself in? How well do you think you would reconcile the changes that would have occurred? How would you cope knowing that any connections you once had would no longer be? It would, in many ways, IMO, be like a rebirth.

note: While I find cryonics an interesting idea in and of itself (and certainly worthy of debate), this thread is not about its feasability or practical application. Rather, it is something of a leap into the imagination

[CM]

It would rock. First thing i would ask is where can i get some food for free? I am fasting again Either way, I personally would never be frozen, by choice. I don't see it as natural.

But the episode you speak off, the peopel really over react. Its the future, who gives damn if you need your wall street journal, and how will your broker still be alive?

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=CM]It would rock. First thing i would ask is where can i get some food for free? I am fasting again Either way, I personally would never be frozen, by choice. I don't see it as natural.

But the episode you speak off, the peopel really over react. Its the future, who gives damn if you need your wall street journal, and how will your broker still be alive?[/QUOTE]

I don't think I'd have myself frozen either; I'm just being speculative

I agree re: that episode. The thing is though, did they really overreact? Sure, they were all stereotypes, but seriously, think about the shock it would have on you, to be awoken, and have it gradually dawn on you that certainties you once knew, like the Wall Street Journal," were nothing other than a strange curiosity, of interest only to those studying the past (assuming such professions existed).

[CM]

I understand the shock they would be in. But shouldn't common sense kick in? I would personally think they would fall to peices and need Tory to help them out psychologically. I wouldn't see them demanding things after they have been told they don't exist. What however was realistic was their anxiety about not knowing what is happening, because the Enterprise kept them locked up in that room.

It would be interesting to see however what the future holds. If it was possible to time travel it would be great, but frozen no way. Additionally can one be frozen for that long with todays technology?

[Chanak]

Panic and fear would naturally play a role in anyone who quite suddenly found themselves far removed from the familiar. By becoming familiar with the environment around us, our psyche "holds together." Since remaining dormant for 400 years without any sensory input is not exactly a natural occurence, it would of course have a very negative effect upon our minds. Something on a smaller scale occurs to victims of amnesia and people who revive from extended periods of coma.

If this happened to me, I would struggle to associate anything in the future I found myself in with things my mind is familiar with. I happen to know that in the "Next Generation" story line, utopia was reached after a period of chaos during the 21st century. So therefore, upon waking in the 25th century, one of the first questions I would ask is, "are there any lawyers around?" The answer I would receive would be "no." When I therefore ask, "so what happened to them?", the answer I would receive would make me smile.

In the Next Generation story line, all of the lawyers were systematically exterminated during the 21st century. I would love it!

(note: you learn this in a Next Generation episode where the super-being Q, toying around with Captain Picard, takes him back to a late 21st century court where he puts him on trial. Q is my favorite character in that series)

[Fiona]

A lot depends on how you wake up. If you are frozen and the people in the future deliberately revive you they would know something about your background and culture,I assume. Interesting to speculate how they would go about trying to help you assimilate

If you were found randomly, as appears to be the case in the episode you describe, that might be much harder for both sides. And if you were frozen accidentally that would be different again. Loss of companions etc would be much harder to deal with than if you had decided to do it.

I think you'd probably adapt to changes in technology relatively easily (whether more or less advanced). Changes in language and habits of thought would probably be harder. The worst thing for me would be the impossibility of stepping off even for a while. It would be relentless.

It would be exciting and scary at first. Afterwards I think people would get bored with you as a phenomenon. Assuming there weren't lots of others in the same situation you'd probably end up lonely and unemployable.

[Chimaera182]

This was one of the few episodes of TNG I actually liked; it was certainly the only one in the first season I liked. I saw it a couple years ago and it gave me an idea for a story to write; unfortunately, said story was coming along nicely until the evil man (myself) toyed with the notion of putting in a new hard drive and screwed up the settings of the jumpers.

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Okay, I admit, sometimes I get a kick out of watching Star Trek

Earlier this morning, perhaps as a substitute for Saturday morning cartoons, my partner and I watched an episode of "Next Generation," in which three characters had been frozen upon death, in the hope medical science would one day be able to revive them and cure any ills. And of cource the USS Enterprise found their capsule floating in space....

This got me to thinking....


Imagine this: You die tomorrow, you have your body frozen, and you are revived 400 years into the future. How do you imagine yourself reacting? How do you imagine the future you would find yourself in? How well do you think you would reconcile the changes that would have occurred? How would you cope knowing that any connections you once had would no longer be? It would, in many ways, IMO, be like a rebirth.

note: While I find cryonics an interesting idea in and of itself (and certainly worthy of debate), this thread is not about its feasability or practical application. Rather, it is something of a leap into the imagination [/QUOTE]
Myself? I've always considered myself quite a rational person, so I can see myself freaking out like crazy. I'm usually pretty quiet and even-tempered in a situation, but when you get thrown into a situation like that, it's difficult to predict how you'll react. How do I imagine the future I'd find myself in? That's a tougher one; I have such a bleak outlook on life, I think I'd probably guess that I'd be awoken by some aliens and come to find out that the species wiped itself out just shortly after I was put in. How would I cope? Well, considering the majority of my connections right now are rather negative, I think I'd look forward to forming new ones.

[QUOTE=CM]I understand the shock they would be in. But shouldn't common sense kick in? I would personally think they would fall to peices and need Tory to help them out psychologically. I wouldn't see them demanding things after they have been told they don't exist. What however was realistic was their anxiety about not knowing what is happening, because the Enterprise kept them locked up in that room.

It would be interesting to see however what the future holds. If it was possible to time travel it would be great, but frozen no way. Additionally can one be frozen for that long with todays technology?[/QUOTE]
Common sense? (tries not to die laughing) You're assuming the people who would wake up in the future would even have common sense; the majority of people in the world today are lacking it. Anyway, the one guy who was demanding things was only doing so because he was overly nervous himself; he needed to feel in control of things, and that's how he tried to cope with waking up in the future.

I'm not a fan of time-travel. The way they show it in Star Trek is so far-fetched (I know it's just a TV show and an elaborate piece of fiction besides, but still). When you see people travel back in time, just that very act is going to change the time line. Every interaction, even by just walking down the street, is going to change things in the future. Maybe you'll accidentally carry a virus with you; maybe some struggling writer who was about to give up on ideas for the day sees you and suddenly gets some odd idea for a story that in future will be considered one of the greatest works of his/her time. As for being frozen, yes, it is possible. I just don't think it's been proven yet that you can actually bring someone back after that.

[dragon wench]

I think Fiona is right in stating that much depends on the way you were awoken. If, in fact, those reviving you had familiarised themselves with your culture, and attempted to ease you gently into the new one, no doubt it would be far less traumatic.

Myself? I think the worst thing would be realising that everyone I knew and cared about was dead. All my memories would be simply that and nothing more; everything dear to me would be gone. I'd suddenly find myself existing in a space utterly detached from every experience I'd ever had. That would be really tough.

I think I'd find the social and technological adjustments (assuming they fitted something of a Utopia) fairly easy to make. Hey! The thought of money and material possesions being obselete, as in Star Trek, doesn't upset me in the slightest.

I suspect I would, at least initially, end up trying to find as many analogies as I could to my former life, however slender they might be. Then, after a time, I would end up assimilating myself more fully, and I'd make every effort to explore and enjoy my new circumstances.

How do I imagine 400 years hence? Hard to say, I suppose. However, if we actually make it that far, it is probably reasonable to assume that we won't have blown ourselves up, or fouled our nest beyond redemption, so this does suggest something of a general improvement (Okay, maybe I'm being overly optimistic... ).

I'll probably post more on how I envision the future a bit later.

[Hill-Shatar]

[QUOTE=Dragon Wench]note: While I find cryonics an interesting idea in and of itself (and certainly worthy of debate), this thread is not about its feasability or practical application. Rather, it is something of a leap into the imagination [/QUOTE]

You know, your getting me all riled up and ready to tell you the technological and biological factors that would make such actions "impossible" (todays standards, you never know) and then you sprout out this sentence and I find out I have to give my opinion.

If I could have a choice, I would rather go for lengthening longevity to being frozen, and watching as the human race slowly shifted.

Being flash frozen, ect, is extremely difficult to be caught in a situation of which that would be danger. Iceman was a mystery for the longest time. The problem is, that flash freezing kills you... you could not survive. Your brain, in wide terms, would be destroyed... even if your body would be left intact. The brain requires at least some warth... one of the problems with cryogenics. Or I am mistaken, but if it is frozen, then it would most likely cease all function.

Controlled Cryogenics, if they could be designed and built... and if it has been proven, then by all means, if they knew I was going to die, I'd hope they would toss me in. I dont understand why they were in a satellite... the ones currently in development are all terra based.

Anyways, if they did wake me up.... would the future still have money? Thats the problem. Cryogenics, from the theories that have dance accross my desk on the way to the lab, would be immensly expensive just to drop someone into them. To take them out would cost more... so either they really want to learn about the past, or the society has become moneyless. Although, I am not totally sure that the world could survive without money... this is Star Trek after all...

The first thing I would do when I wake up would be trying to figure out where I am. Am I still on good old Earth or is it the 29th century and I am in the Utopia Andromadae system 22. something or other, I think, lightyears away? What year is it? Who are you all? What is happening?

I guess the second thing I would do if I got the chance would to be try and figure out what happened with the family... from counsins to my brother. After I figured that out, I may try to contact them...

Another thing I would enjoyt doing is to see what happened in my field of research. What happened in the last some odd years, what cures have been made, findings, ect. Major happenings since I was frozen. Major wars, continetnal shift, global warming, whatever happens to have been on the agenda. Did someone finally screw up and start a global nuclear war (another problem, what happens if a war breaks out and the cryogenic place is in the middle of it? I know, I know, be positive..), or did the Utopia ideal happen?

I wouldnt mind wandering the streets to see what is typical... looking around and seeing people getting food out of replicators, transporters? Possible interstellar travel? Do people live on the ground still, or has that been totally barren, or set aside for the wildlife? Can I still go back to see where I once lived, and see what has happened to it?

Unfortunately, the waves and currents of times have strands weaving in every direction in the Multiple Universe theory system (you know, that Universe is exactly the same, except that its the evil Alliance! sort of thing) that you never really know what is going to happen. For all we know we could be visited by Aliens, accidentally insult them over dinner and get invaded. Or there could be a massive earthquake that shatters the Earths crust...

So, basically, what would we do under what type of circumstances, DW? The utopia? how many years in the future? Who would wake us up... humans or others? Will they have the ability to extend my lifetime by ten or fifteen times? Or will there be a disease ravaging billions?

So?

[Chimaera182]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I think I'd find the social and technological adjustments (assuming they fitted something of a Utopia) fairly easy to make. Hey! The thought of money and material possesions being obselete, as in Star Trek, doesn't upset me in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
I'm too cynical to believe humans will ever evolve past money and material possessions; Star Trek is too unrealistic in that idea, but at least in Deep Space 9 they show you money isn't entirely gone from the picture. Don't get me wrong: the world would be a lot better place if people were really like that, but I can't see it happening even in a thousand years.

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Being flash frozen, ect, is extremely difficult to be caught in a situation of which that would be danger. Iceman was a mystery for the longest time. The problem is, that flash freezing kills you... you could not survive. Your brain, in wide terms, would be destroyed... even if your body would be left intact. The brain requires at least some warth... one of the problems with cryogenics. Or I am mistaken, but if it is frozen, then it would most likely cease all function.

...

Anyways, if they did wake me up.... would the future still have money? Thats the problem. Cryogenics, from the theories that have dance accross my desk on the way to the lab, would be immensly expensive just to drop someone into them. To take them out would cost more... so either they really want to learn about the past, or the society has become moneyless. Although, I am not totally sure that the world could survive without money... this is Star Trek after all...

...

Unfortunately, the waves and currents of times have strands weaving in every direction in the Multiple Universe theory system (you know, that Universe is exactly the same, except that its the evil Alliance! sort of thing) that you never really know what is going to happen. For all we know we could be visited by Aliens, accidentally insult them over dinner and get invaded. Or there could be a massive earthquake that shatters the Earths crust... [/QUOTE]
Yeah, while cryonics can freeze you, our cells themselves need the warmth; you flash-freeze them, the water in them is going to freeze and they'll burst, or it was something like that (it's been about a year since I remember being told about cryogenics). Hence why I said I just don't think it's been proven yet that you can actually bring someone back after that. But the feasability isn't the issue.

If the future didn't have money--like there's a major Depression--then they might leave you stuck in your freezer. If the future didn't have money--Star Trek-wise--then why would they worry about the cost of pulling you out?

So, hill, you're hopefully optimistic about our future, then?

[Fiona]

I agree with Ian M Banks's idea that money is a sign of poverty. It would be nice to think that in some future there would be no need to ration goods and so no need for money.

[Hill-Shatar]

Oh chim, you know that I am always optimistic about these things. Besides, it is all I can take right now not to point out all the impossibilities of cryogenics... but DW wanted us to fake that it was possible, so I guess I had to give it a go...

Besides, hope for the best, expect the worst.

If the society was moneyless, then they would probably wake you up at the first chance that they have to heal you...however, if society was in a depression, they may just leave you there until someone 300 years later comes across the frozen remenants of us and tries to wak us up. Or we could have been blown apart or our pods could suffer from mechanical difficulties...

Anyways, its a matter of whether or not it is wise in a money way to pull them out... perhaps they will wait until a moneyless society to do so, perhaps delaying our revival until many years later. You truly never know.

Anyways, I would just like to point out the problem of having all the food at your disposal and instant entertaiment of any kind at your fingertips in the Start Trek universe. Lets hope people are enlightened enough not to become fat and lazy and dependant on Holo-technology sometime in the future.

[dragon wench]

I'm too cynical to believe humans will ever evolve past money and material possessions; Star Trek is too unrealistic in that idea, but at least in Deep Space 9 they show you money isn't entirely gone from the picture. Don't get me wrong: the world would be a lot better place if people were really like that, but I can't see it happening even in a thousand years.

Oh, I'm highly cynical about mankind's ability to ever move from its materialistic, greedy, consumerism-oriented, money-grubbing mentality. Indeed, I very seriously believe that at our present rate of stupidity, we will likely wipe ourselves out (and, unfortunately, the rest of the planet along with us) in less than 200 years, 300 at an absolute max.

But, this is precisely why I have some level of optimism at a projection of 400 years into the future. I figure that to have actually made that far, some fundamental changes would have had to occur. Since excessive greed and materialism are a root cause of ecological degredation (IMO), it seems fair to speculate that these twin devils would be far less present. Money might not be eliminated completely, but I'm willing to hazard it would hold far less significance than it does now.

@Fiona,
Ian Banks is probably my favourite sci-fi/fantasy writer. He introduces some compelling ideas and stays away from the usual cliches. Not to mention that he can write well.

Unfortunately, the waves and currents of times have strands weaving in every direction in the Multiple Universe theory system (you know, that Universe is exactly the same, except that its the evil Alliance! sort of thing) that you never really know what is going to happen. For all we know we could be visited by Aliens, accidentally insult them over dinner and get invaded. Or there could be a massive earthquake that shatters the Earths crust...

So, basically, what would we do under what type of circumstances, DW? The utopia? how many years in the future? Who would wake us up... humans or others? Will they have the ability to extend my lifetime by ten or fifteen times? Or will there be a disease ravaging billions?

I leave the speculation and imaginative leap to you, but....
Regarding the time frame, I said 400 years, but if you want to make longer, go for it

Having taken this flight of fancy, I think it would be quite possible that non-humans could wake us up, since I seriously doubt we are the only "intelligent," life form in the universe. I'm suddenly reminded of a Monty Python line, to paraphrase: "I hope there's intelligent life somewhere else because there's bugger all down here."

Equally, since I'm working under the assumption that we would have needed to make huge social and technological advancements to even progress beyond the next 300 years, I think it is fair to state that the human lifespan could have been drastically expanded. Even if you look now as compared to a few hundred years ago, the expected lifespan has greatly increased.

Now, of course, if you decide to take a pessimistic perspective and assume that a few survivors descend deeply and irrevocably into "barbarism," after some kind of human-created disaster, well that would change the picture completely.....

[Chimaera182]

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Oh chim, you know that I am always optimistic about these things. Besides, it is all I can take right now not to point out all the impossibilities of cryogenics... but DW wanted us to fake that it was possible, so I guess I had to give it a go...[/QUOTE]
Actually, that was in reference to the fact you said For all we know we could be visited by Aliens, accidentally insult them over dinner and get invaded. Or there could be a massive earthquake that shatters the Earths crust....

[Wolfguard]

Yeah, that`s my favorite episode from season 1. First appearance of the Romulans and first documented incursion of the Borg (without naming or showing them.)

Imagine this: You die tomorrow, you have your body frozen, and you are revived 400 years into the future. How do you imagine yourself reacting?How do you imagine the future you would find yourself in? How well do you think you would reconcile the changes that would have occurred? How would you cope knowing that any connections you once had would no longer be? It would, in many ways, IMO, be like a rebirth

Well, I`d be pretty sad that my mom and dogs were long dead, as they are the only family I have. But life goes on and I`d just have to deal. My subsiquent reactions would really depend on the condition of humankind and the Earth, as well as who or WHAT was reviving me. For all we know, extraterrestrial life may exist and might be the norm or even the dominant force in this part of the universe in 400 years. Maybe life will have ceased and machines will dominate; who can say? Well, I`m sure I`d be fine, as long as there are still dogs to care for and ladies to gawk at.