Cleric usefulness in TOB?

Parak · Post by **Parak** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 5:21 pm

How useful are clerics in TOB? Just finished SoA for the first time(the last fight was surprisingly easy), and my party makeup on entering TOB was: Myself(Inquisitor), Jaheira, Anomen, Imoen, Valygar, Edwin. I needed to pick up Sarevok (rp reasons), and the choice of dumping fell on either Anomen or Valygar. After some long thinking, I stayed with Anomen, but I started thinking the extra melee power might be better (Valygar: CFury+Crom, Anomen: FoA).
Truthfully, most of the time I use Anomen as melee, for the FoA slow effect.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 5:53 pm

Well....Anomen is actually stronger than Valgyr and while that isn't as important in ToB (with strength enhancing gear), I do think that the fighting potential of a F/Cl dual of Anomen and a full fighter type is not all that much (Anomen can get grand-mastery in flail and warhammer you know).

In addition, Anomen has some *great* summons (not as good as Jaheira's but more of them), and some great (what I call) denial spells. Stun? Free-Action--> DENIED, Remove Paralysis-->DENIED. Charm-->Chaotic Commands--> DENIED. You get the idea.

Having said that you should have no trouble with ToB either way you decide. I like clerics in large parties, but you can live without a full cleric in ToB.

-Polaris

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 7:00 pm

From your list of your party, it sounds like Anomen can wear the Mittens of Dexterity, which really solves the ONE BIG PROBLEM about him...(Edwin could wear them, too, but he should be equipped with the Staff of Magi and hence invisible man). Anomen is annoying, but he sure does whip some ***... If he passed his knighthood, he achieves a pretty inhuman number of spells by the time you get to TOB...he has the holy symbol, so his unadjusted STR is 19

and he can wear any armor unlike Valygar.

However, my big gripe against Clerics in TOB is that they run out of special abilities, and they can't use them anyway because they don't have any extra 7th level spells!!!!

Anomen lags behind "Real" fighters because of this - he can't get any whirlwinds!!! However, on balance he is pretty ******* cool. Greater Restoration is VERY nice.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 12:25 am

Clerics are great in ToB for turning Undead, and believe me, there are plenty of those. Clerics gain some nice quest spells, like Storm of Vengeance, but let's not forget the spells they already have in their repetoire, like Greater Restoration, Sunray, and Earthquake (very effective for softening up Drow and Illithid). And if your cleric is not a multi-class, then he/she also gain a nice item at 26th level.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:09 am

Originally posted by Parak:
most of the time I use Anomen as melee

Try mixing up his attacks and spellcasting. Let him make two attacks (look at the message window, not the animations), then immediately hit the spacebar and have him cast a spell with a Casting Time of about 5 or less. He'll almost seamlessly combine the two, without losing momentum in either.

Originally posted by THE JAKER:
Greater Restoration is VERY nice.

What's so great about it? As far as I can tell, it's a Heal and a Lesser Restoration rolled into one, but gives enormous fatigue... Am I missing something?

zeyk · Post by **zeyk** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:33 am

@Xyx

The nice thing about Greater Restoration is that it applies to ALL party memebers. It's like casting Lesser Restoration + Heal on everyone. The fatigue factor is not any different from the one the cleric experiences after casting Lesser Restoration.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:39 am

There's another thread going about Greater Restore going right now - it has been my experience that it restores EVERYONE in the party, although this is not what the description says...

I can't test it out right now because I'm at work, but this is what I've seen, and it is very nice - Anomen is always griping about his "days in the order" (he's tired) in my group!

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:52 am

imo the tob "pure" cleric suffers badly from "mission creep" of all the classes they seem to be the easiest to not have...
justification:
there are 3 rods of ressurection (2 soa, 1 tob) + recharge is just a store away.
two items that can cast sunray 1x per day
more superior healing potions than you could ever need, (and plenty of cash to buy more)
various other items that duplicate cleric abilities, scrolls of restoration, blessed bracers, hindo's doom. + bhall powers.

undead hosing items, daystar, azureedge, rune hammer, mace of disruption.

a party w/o a cleric still has no problems staying healthy + fighting undead. i found that jaheria is all the healer you need.

disclaimer:
note this is not to say there clerics are not usefull just to say that they are not really needed, in the same manner that a ftr type or mage is needed. i think most parites would be much better off w/ another tank or mage than w/ a "pure" cleric.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 1:30 pm

Clerics rule the roost when it comes to 'denial' type spells, but your point is well taken. If you just look at what the spells do (party support), then the cleric needs to bring something else to the table if you want to include them. In ToB, both Anomen and Aerie are better than Viconia in that regard (although I really dislike Aerie but that is another topic):

1. Anomen can tank with the best of them and makes a great frontline fighter. Perhaps not as good as a pure fighter, but far from a waste.

2. Aerie is also a backup mage, and with the right gear can tank lite (but IMO that is a misuse of her abilities).

The point is that both bring something else to the table outside their clerical abilities unlike say.... (ducks) .... Viconia (who I like in ToB btw).

-Polaris

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 2:04 pm

The point about greater restouration, it only works when you have Tob installed.
Because some spells have changed since ToB, When you summon fire elementals you sometimes get two, probbaly greater restouration is changed to.
But I don't know this for sure but some spells have changed or are bugged.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 3:48 pm

Originally posted by Raven:
The point about greater restouration, it only works when you have Tob installed.

That would be it, because I cannot, very clearly, heal more than one person at a time with Greater Restoration. Thanks for pointing that out.

glory · Post by **glory** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 12:14 am

Clerics are great unless you want spend a lot of time sleeping or swallowing potions...remember that potions cannot compare to a heal spell from arie wearing robe of vecna...because if you are korgan getting whalloped down to 50 hps by dermogorgon or the huntress party and happen to be in desperate need of healing the time it would take to quaff 5 potions of greater healing is long compared to arie's heal spell that only takes a like 1 second( long live the robe of vecna).

there are other reasons to have clerics...but you can make do without them...although they do make life easier.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 12:37 am

After the first challenge in TOB Savarok was level drained. When I took the party to the temple in saradush and had restore cast oh him, everyone got the column of light! I thought it was just a temple thing but now you guys are telling me a single greater restore will do everyone in a Party!!!!!!

Cool, now I don't have to memorize mass heals and use the slots for more important spells.

The best combat healing is in potions, and using the rod of ressurection. Use a quick potion to buy a few seconds, and have someone cast resuurect on a party member. I was also planning to see if mass raise dead will be a good "oh crap, everyone is dying " spell. it should work the same way. When everyone is at less than half health, and I'm still taking damage, a single mass raise dead should get everyone in good shape.

If a single restore can effect the entire party, then its the cleric's job to be exhausted in battle and cast the spell.

NOte:

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The optional Bhaal power pack includes a once day mass raise dead for your pc, providing a truely necessary spell for mage type pc's who are not going to be in the front lines like your clerics can be.