Beauty: power or weakness?

[Chimaera182]

Lil background.

I was watching an episode of Family Guy last week, the one when Meg gets a makeover and becomes super-hot and super-popular. She then became a rockstar and had a band, millions of dollars and fans, and the power she had attained went to her head.

A Sex and the City episode I saw recently featured men who date only models, and Carrie compared how beautiful women have nothing on beautiful models, and how men chase these models around. And the models use this power of theirs to get all kinds of stuff: money, jewelry, trips to exotic locations, etc.

I just tonight saw another episode of Family Guy, this one when Peter gets liposuction and becomes super-thin, then he gets a few "add-ons" and becomes gorgeous. Then he's suddenly got mad power (because cutting in line at the grocery store is a sign of power ).

And of course it seems like everyone wants to be "beautiful." I want to lose weight and have one of those porn star bodies so I can actually find someone... but then the people I would find would be shallow people who would've spat in my face while I was overweight, so I'm not exactly motivated.

But it seems like people who have attained this level of "beauty" have this power over us. They make us want to change our lifestyle so as to be more like them, they make us want to look like them, and they make some of us buy things and do things for them. The "normals" and "uglies" of the world tend to struggle (not all of them do) for scraps while the "beautiful" among us have everything handed to them on a silver platter. But then the "beautiful" tend to be looked down upon, thought of as dumb ("People say I'm dumb, but I'm pretty literary. I mean, I'll sit down and read a whole magazine, cover to cover."), and are sometimes despised by those of us who are not considered "beautiful." And the lengths people go to to achieve this beauty are very dangerous: we'll have our bodies torn open to suck excess fat out, we have our noses broken down, we'll have entire faces reconstructed and even injected with poison.

So is being beautiful really worth it? Is beauty a sign of power... or weakness?

[Wolfguard]

Is beauty a sign of power... or weakness?

Like any other animal, humans use their appearance/"beauty" as a method of display when it comes to attraction and/or a show of dominance. What`s different between us and the other animals is we let it go to our heads and rely on it for trivial nonsense, as opposed to natural selection.

[Demortis]

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]So is being beautiful really worth it? Is beauty a sign of power... or weakness?[/QUOTE]

well, IMO, beauty is a weakness, something else one must worry about, sure theres keeping your self tidy and neat, and then theres overboard like you have said.

[C Elegans]

I can't really answer the question whether beauty is a power or a weakness, since this is so highly dependent on the society you live in, and of yourself as a person and the values you hold. In the Western world, beauty is a highly valued trait (in my opinion highly overvalued) in most parts of society. Therefore, it's not surprising that studies show beautiful people are more "successful" than non-beautiful people. This becomes a self-reinforcing circle: if beauty is highly valued, people tend to treat beautiful people better than non-beautiful people. If you let normal people rate photos of other people's beauty, and they you compare those who were rated as "beautiful" with those who were not rated as "beautiful", the people who are rated by others as "beautiful" have, at group level, higher income and "higher", ie more powerful, professional positions. Since we in the western world tend to use money and power as a measurement of social success, the conclusion is that according to our norms, beautiful people are more socially successful.

There are also studies showing that tall people (especially men) make more money and are bosses more often than shorter men, and that overweight people are discriminated against on the job market compared to non-overweight people with the same merits. What all this show, is that people tend to treat others based on how they look, and this may of course also have an effect on the receiver. If you grow up and constantly hear how pretty you are, and you notice that people behave good towards you because of your looks, you may feel yourself that your looks is your most important trait, and a trait by which you can gain influence over other people and get what you want in life. On the other hand, if you grow up getting reinforcement for other aspects of your behaviour and when that age comes, you are not "popular" or viewed as "attractive" by your peers, then you may develop a lot of negative thoughts about yourself, which in turn will affect your behaviour.

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]... but then the people I would find would be shallow people who would've spat in my face while I was overweight, so I'm not exactly motivated. [/quote]

I had a schoolmate at uni, who used to be an internationally well-known fashion model. Then she got a form of pituitary gland cancer, which meant she gained an enormous amount of weight in very short time, and her looks changed radically. To make a long story short, this woman noticed very quickly who were her real friends and not, and it turned out that the real friends were in fact a very small minority.

Personally, I quickly get bored by people who have the kind of values that make them spend a lot of time and energy on how they look. I've met people who can hardly have a conversation about anything else than clothes, hairstyle, make-up and fashion, and this bore me to death. It's like when people talk about how much money they make and all the status junk they buy for this money - I fall asleep in 30 seconds flat. If you naturally look good, by all means show it if you wish, I don't mind people who show off what they have, but I do mind people who think it's important in any way.

According to my personal experiences, I believe it's best to look sort of average. It's a disadvantage to look very good, unless you yourself think this is a highly valuable trait and want to be treated according to your looks and not your other qualities, and it's a disadvantage (especially in younger years) to look far worse than average unless you have a smashing personality.

[Chimaera182]

[QUOTE=Wolfguard]Like any other animal, humans use their appearance/"beauty" as a method of display when it comes to attraction and/or a show of dominance. What`s different between us and the other animals is we let it go to our heads and rely on it for trivial nonsense, as opposed to natural selection.[/QUOTE]
Well, the way society works (at least in the US), beauty actually does revert back to natural selection. Those who are beautiful and use this to their advantage will get things ordinary people will have to work hard for. CE mentioned how looks influence the workplace. Also, if you're "beautiful," you're far more likely to attract attention from potential mates. An ordinary-looking girl with her brown hair in a bun, glasses, and a tweed outfit might be looked over for a woman with her blonde lockes flowing, her bounty "ample" and on full display. The latter is more likely to attract a whole bushel of men. But we do rely far more on beauty than is entirely necessary.

[QUOTE=C Elegans]I had a schoolmate at uni, who used to be an internationally well-known fashion model. Then she got a form of pituitary gland cancer, which meant she gained an enormous amount of weight in very short time, and her looks changed radically. To make a long story short, this woman noticed very quickly who were her real friends and not, and it turned out that the real friends were in fact a very small minority.

...

According to my personal experiences, I believe it's best to look sort of average. It's a disadvantage to look very good, unless you yourself think this is a highly valuable trait and want to be treated according to your looks and not your other qualities, and it's a disadvantage (especially in younger years) to look far worse than average unless you have a smashing personality.[/QUOTE]
I think that's rather sad. But it does show how much beauty means to some people. (p.s. I'm still convinced that's the reason my ex broke up with me, because I'm overweight; the idiot stick-figure with no soul can burn in hell)

I look worse--not far worse, just worse--than average and always have, but I've also always been told I have a smashing personality. -bow- Thank you.

[Obsidian]

I'm about to go out on a limb here and say that attractivness comes down to three things


Personality

Face


Body


Note how physical attributes make up two thirds the equation.
Personality is the interesting one, it says the most about a person but takes the longest to say it. It's hard to judge with the senses, and takes time to get a full picture of who someone is. In my opinion, it can overide the other two in determining someones attractiveness. Would I sleep with that girl? Yes, she's beautiful, would I date her? Nope.

Not much can be done with the face, people are pretty or their not. Correct me if I err CE, but a lot of what we see as facial beauty comes down to symmetry and skin complexion.

Body is the easiest to change in my opinion. For the vast majority of people, if energy in exceeds energy out, you'll get fat, and that, to me at least, is unattractive.
I don't believe it's unfair to judge someone by their physical condition. It says a lot about somebody if their overweight. It says they don't put much care into their body, or how they eat, the don't particularly enjoy sports or the outdoors, and their life is mostly sedentary.
Clearly exceptions exist, but they are exceptions.

What I look for in leaders, (admittedly, I am a soldier) is someone who is imposing, athletic, and charismatic. I want to follow someone I would die for. I don't want a short, fat blotchy complexioned person leading me.

A lot of leadership comes down to confidence, and that's based on body image. I think I'm good looking, I know I'm muscular and athletic, so a lot of fear some people get from stepping forward to lead I don't get.

I wasn't always like this though. As a child (10-15) I was overweight. But I found that I was good at soccer, and trained as a goalie to a national level.
At school, I developed a love of Capture the Flag. For every recess for two years, I played it with friends. I had a devious mind, and over time, my body changed to become faster and stronger, and I was the kid organizing it, so I became a leader, which fed across to soccer because the goalie is expected. I captained my team for three years.

Umm, excuse the rant.


What I'm saying is that yes, physical beauty is an attribute that breeds confidence, which leads to leadership, which, I believe, gets you ahead in the world. So yeah, beauty is power.

[Phreddie]

IMO beuaty can be both, it depends on the intent of the beautiful, ie if its natural great fro them as long as they dont abuse the 'power' they have or the shallow if they work at it it btr be to please themselvesnot others.

[Fiona]

I've read this but I would like to raise one point. In my experience the people we love become beautiful. I know that for me the initial attraction is not very important except at first ( oops, tautology.) But when I really get to know someone and like them, they get better looking all the time.

[Phreddie]

You bring up a good point, but my thoughts are to complex to think and type so basically, while what you say is true if u really like the person thety look better, but everyone has a personal preference, somewhat like whwat an ideal person would be like superficially, and that somewhat determines how we aproach poeple on an unconscious level and also the societal standards for hot or not affect who you aproach and what you say and who aproaches you and what you say, your interaction, but once you get down to it and through all the superficial crap what truly determines ones beauty is the love another has for them, some1 could be 400 lbs. wrinkly, sun spots, and two different colored eyes, one leg shorter than the other (ie your basic stereotypical ugly person, stereotypical mind you i wont mention an opinion on this one.) and still to somebody be the most beautiful person in the world. And no thety dont have to be blind to think that.

[yrthwyndandfyre]

Getting back to the main point, I would have to say that beauty is a weakness. People who are beautiful and know it have a strong tendency to rely on that to see them through life, and to be frank, physical beauty is transitory. I know a number of people who I've seen photographs of when they were young, and they were incredibly beautiful. Now, in middle age, they are not so much anymore.

Having said that, any character trait taken to excess can become a weakness. I happen to be a genius, and while it has served me well over the years, I shudder to think what would happen to me should I ever be deprived of it. Aside from my intelligence, I have little going for me at my age. Without that, I would effectively be a lump.

Having said that, in turn, you don't have to be attractive to find a partner. Most of the people who saw the Love of my Life thought her unattractive, but to me she was the most beautiful woman in the world. I could gaze for hours into her eyes and have no need of anything else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all. I have a former business associate who somehow managed to always be married to a beautiful woman, and my constant response to that is "What the heck to they see in him?" He was overweight, not particularly handsome, not particularly smart, not particularly funny, and not wealthy. He obviously had something, though. Some evasive trait in his personality that made him attractive to his various wives. Whatever it was, I could not possibly even speculate on, but the proof is in the doing. He actually *did* marry those women. I know that for a fact. So there was something in him that they found attractive enough to marry him for. It's as simple as that.

The Love of my Life found me attractive for reasons that completely escape me. She was a slender gypsy mystic. I'm an overweight caucasian computer geek. She was wiccan, I'm Buddhist. People though her face 'horsey'. The best compliment I've ever been payed on my appearance is that I look more like a Klingon without makeup than most people do with makeup. Before I lost her, we had planned to get married. I have no idea what she saw in me. The only thing I know is what I saw in her - the most beautiful woman in the world.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as unlikely as it might seem, there is somebody for everyone. There is somebody who will love you for who you are, not for what you look like. That is the tie that binds. If they only like you for your looks, then that attraction will fade with time. It has to. If they love you for who you are, that attraction only fades if you change into somebody else.

[dragon wench]

I view beauty as neither a weakness nor an advantage. However, as far as I'm concerned a person's attractiveness is defined by the interior.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Beauty is something that emanates from within. You could show me the most physically stunning person on the planet, but to me they would be ugly if there was nothing inside.

I have fallen deeply in love with men who did not view themselves as especially attractive. I'm not sure they have ever realised just how amazing they truly are. But, sadly, we have a society that is preoccupied with superficial appearances; all too often people who do not fit into our preconceived ideals of beauty suffer from low self esteem when it comes to the way they look.

In another thread (one that discussed the way men gaze at women) I stated that I hate being looked at.... Amidst some of the other reasons, I intensely dislike it because it can indicate just how incredibly superficial our society tends to be.

[Phreddie]

Superficial Society

Sadly your right, i, having not ventured out of the country but once, have particularly noticed this in america, but i guess it happens alll ovr the world. There are still a few normal people, such as ourselves. There are more tha you think but they hide amongst the 'others' so as not to be cast out, which in itself shows their conversion to a degree. The media tends to reflect the superficial cahnges our socxiety has under gone, plastic surgery if you will, if they would stop talking about which celeb married which celeb ppl would stop following that stuff, and if they started talking about this docoter curing that disease mroe often or the polotician actually keeping his campaign prmises, our world would be a much better place; Beaty has neithr a power ovr ppl like the media does, or a weakness like a failed polotician, it is the outcome of a power or weakness, the poers or weaknesses are determined by the viewer and viewee, and it cant be "love/beauty at first sight" one must get to knwo them, completely understand them ebfore they can judge on beuaty.

[fable]

I can't help remembering the funniest line in a South African film that came out many years ago, called The Gods Must Be Crazy. A blonde-haired, nicely-built white woman escapes from her captors in the plains, and is immediately confronted by about thirty members of a group of black natives. Her reactions show that she's clearly afraid of being molested. The narrator intones, "And then they saw the ugliest woman they've ever encountered in their lives."

In short, physical attractiveness is largely in the mind, leaving aside the issue of general physical and mental health. It's conditioned in large part by one's upbringing, family, peers, commercial advertising, entertainment, environment. But it's always possible to resist the programming, and to make up one's own mind. Most people just don't realize it's happening to themselves, or care.

So much for physical beauty. I tend to get turned on by intelligence, independent thought, depth of view, a sense of humor, a lively interest in the arts, and an affectionate nature. Fortunately, I found all that in my wife.

[Phreddie]

[QUOTE=fable]
So much for physical beauty. I tend to get turned on by intelligence, independent thought, depth of view, a sense of humor, a lively interest in the arts, and an affectionate nature. Fortunately, I found all that in my wife. [/QUOTE]

isnt this a thread on wether or not beauty is a power or a weakness, not about what happens to turn one on? honestly i could live happily with out hearing that from several people.

[Athena]

I could be a superdork and say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. Or I could say that America is the most 'obese' country in the world. (Praise Jah that I don't contribute to that) But hey, all joking aside, what's wrong with excercising and why are peoople so lazy that they get 'ugly'?
Getting back to the beauty in the eye of the beholder part; ignorance is the ugliest trait of all. In other words; I only think something is ugly because of my own ignorance. I have a few good friends that are overweight. But I found myself lost when overweight/(negative thinkers) people who I didn't know were mean to me because I'm skinny and pretty. I didn't do anything to be mean to them, I actually tried to make friends.
(I went with a pal to this party one night...It wasn't too cool) It was like they were stuck in middle school, brutus and bi@ch all huffy puffy, and like, "I'm gonna kick your @$$ prissy girl" 1.I'm not prissy 2.I was trying to be genuinely friendly 3.Go ahead and hit me; I'm not a chicken sh** like some of the other little girls you sat on.
I might say that beauty is weakness because people who have a negative self image feel comfortable attacking me for unnecessary reasons. I'm reminded of that Guns n' Roses song; "Live n' Let Die"
Please, spare me.
(Thoughts, anyone?)

[yrthwyndandfyre]

[QUOTE=Athena]I could be a superdork and say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. Or I could say that America is the most 'obese' country in the world. (Praise Jah that I don't contribute to that) But hey, all joking aside, what's wrong with excercising and why are peoople so lazy that they get 'ugly'?
Getting back to the beauty in the eye of the beholder part; ignorance is the ugliest trait of all. In other words; I only think something is ugly because of my own ignorance. I have a few good friends that are overweight. But I found myself lost when overweight/(negative thinkers) people who I didn't know were mean to me because I'm skinny and pretty. I didn't do anything to be mean to them, I actually tried to make friends.
(I went with a pal to this party one night...It wasn't too cool) It was like they were stuck in middle school, brutus and bi@ch all huffy puffy, and like, "I'm gonna kick your @$$ prissy girl" 1.I'm not prissy 2.I was trying to be genuinely friendly 3.Go ahead and hit me; I'm not a chicken sh** like some of the other little girls you sat on.
I might say that beauty is weakness because people who have a negative self image feel comfortable attacking me for unnecessary reasons. I'm reminded of that Guns n' Roses song; "Live n' Let Die"
Please, spare me.
(Thoughts, anyone?)[/QUOTE]

I can't believe I just read that. Is that a joke? Or am I dealing with a Valley Girl?

[Athena]

[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]I can't believe I just read that. Is that a joke? Or am I dealing with a Valley Girl?[/QUOTE]
and you, my friend, are a relic.

[dragon wench]

I am going to relate a personal experience here that bears on the topic at hand.

While it is largely under control now, at various points in my life I have suffered from eczema. Sometimes it has been severe; there have been occasions where I've been hospitalised.

Because of my father's work and his whims, I ended up changing schools a lot. Thus, just before the beginning of ninth grade my skin broke out really badly. I entered a new school with my skin a sore, inflamed, weeping, flaking, itchy mess. However, the pain of my skin (which was extreme) was nothing compared to the pain I endured from the subsequent verbal abuse. The scars that the bullying left run far deeper than the scars remaining from the eczema itself.

Then, about a third of the way into the school year, my skin cleared up... Magically... the teasing stopped. Indeed, much the opposite occurred. The "popular," kids decided I was worth paying attention to. Some actually said to me, "I just had no idea how pretty you are." Their words, not mine.
Honestly... I just wanted to vomit. I told those "individuals" something to the effect of, "With apparent friends like this, who needs enemies?"

School is particularly bad for this sort of thing. I think, though, that it is an amplified and undisguised version of our larger society. Far too many people can't see past the surface. I have no interest at all in associating with idiots like that.

[Chimaera182]

[QUOTE=fable]I can't help remembering the funniest line in a South African film that came out many years ago, called The Gods Must Be Crazy. A blonde-haired, nicely-built white woman escapes from her captors in the plains, and is immediately confronted by about thirty members of a group of black natives. Her reactions show that she's clearly afraid of being molested. The narrator intones, "And then they saw the ugliest woman they've ever encountered in their lives."

...

So much for physical beauty. I tend to get turned on by intelligence, independent thought, depth of view, a sense of humor, a lively interest in the arts, and an affectionate nature. Fortunately, I found all that in my wife. [/QUOTE]
ROFL! I swear, if I had just a little more space in my sig, I'd add that line, too.

To me, intelligence and a great sense of humor are more attractive than looks. But then, we're talking about whether beauty is a weakness or strength.

[QUOTE=Athena]I could be a superdork and say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. Or I could say that America is the most 'obese' country in the world. (Praise Jah that I don't contribute to that) But hey, all joking aside, what's wrong with excercising and why are peoople so lazy that they get 'ugly'?
Getting back to the beauty in the eye of the beholder part; ignorance is the ugliest trait of all. In other words; I only think something is ugly because of my own ignorance. I have a few good friends that are overweight. But I found myself lost when overweight/(negative thinkers) people who I didn't know were mean to me because I'm skinny and pretty. I didn't do anything to be mean to them, I actually tried to make friends.
(I went with a pal to this party one night...It wasn't too cool) It was like they were stuck in middle school, brutus and bi@ch all huffy puffy, and like, "I'm gonna kick your @$$ prissy girl" 1.I'm not prissy 2.I was trying to be genuinely friendly 3.Go ahead and hit me; I'm not a chicken sh** like some of the other little girls you sat on.
I might say that beauty is weakness because people who have a negative self image feel comfortable attacking me for unnecessary reasons. I'm reminded of that Guns n' Roses song; "Live n' Let Die"
Please, spare me.
(Thoughts, anyone?)[/QUOTE]
Speaking as someone who doesn't exercise... I've tried to exercise. But then, I think of all the superficial jerks I would get to be with once I lost the weight, and how they would spit in my face as I am now. That is more depressing than being overweight, and I'd rather stay overweight.

And not all people who have a negative self-image feel comfortable attacking the attractive. I'm an equal-opportunity attacker; I have no qualms making fun of the beautiful or the ugly (in fact, if you ever found yourself sitting next to me while watching a TV show or movie, every once in a while, you will hear me say, "My God, s/he's ugly"). And to be honest, if I had a negative self-image, I might actually try to lose the weight. Some days I do, but generally, I'm fine with how I look.

[Dottie]

I think it's generally a bad idea to redefine words just because you think they describes an overvalued quality. It's even worse to change the definition of a word or concept in the middle of a sentence, Like the statement: "Ugly people are also beautiful".

To say that something is beautiful is to say that it is esthetically appealing. It does not mean that you necessarily feel attraction towards the same person, or want to live with it for the rest of your life, or that you think it is a terribly important quality.

Now to the actual topic:
I think that to be seen as beautiful in our current society is mostly an advantage. People will be superficial and judge you on your looks regardless of whether you are ugly or beautiful. Also, you don't automatically become a superficial or stupid person by being beautiful. At the same time many people will treat you better if you look better, regardless of whether you think this is a good thing or not.