What do u guys consider cheating?

fishhead · Post by **fishhead** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:06 am

Most of you know some of the tricks in the game that allow you to take advantage of the bugs. BTW Don't read the rest if you want to play a completely straight game. For example pickpocketing certain characters or monsters before them going hostile to get two items or stealing from a merchant that has unlimited supplies of something and selling it back to them or getting more than one stronghold, when really in true AD&D rules characters are only allowed one. These are part of the games mechanics or just things overlooked in design. My question is do you guys think this cheating? (This includes the pause bug in which you can get all your old BG1 stuff)

Thanks in advance
fishhead

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 1:15 pm

I don't believe anything is cheating.

It's your game. You paid for it and what you do with it is your business.

The only thing that should matter is ' Did you enjoy the game'

If you want to be a superman/woman do it.

Just don't complain that the game was easy if you do this.

I still don't understand why if I do this or if I don't do that a certain way it is called cheating.

Who gives anybody the right to judge how someone else plays their game.

As long as you are playing a game by yourself you should be able to do what ever you want.

Just don't beat the game and brag.

IMHO.
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[This message has been edited by Weasel (edited 02-28-2001).]

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 4:51 pm

Playing the Ace of Swords as the fifth ace in poker....

jaychia · Post by **jaychia** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 8:36 pm

Weasel, I agree with you. Cheating can be uncool sometimes but as long as you ain't playing on-line games, it doesn't matter what you do. Cheating in Diablo II online is definitely unacceptable. But BGII is a game which you enjoy by yourself. The minor bugs doesn't matter that much. They make playing more fun sometimes.

Giles the Sorcerer · Post by **Giles the Sorcerer** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 12:34 am

Weasel,
Some stuff is still cheating, it's just that well, it no one gives a flying f@#k 'cause BG II is a single player game.

Oh, and their is a definition for cheating in a dictionary somewhere. Doing certain things fits that definition, whether or not you think it good or bad is another story

Garcia · Post by **Garcia** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 2:40 am

Normally when I buy a new game as "strait"
as I possible can. The next time I don't cheat but more take advantage of the little bugs or misses the producers made. Then when everything is sucked out if the game, start cheating (or manipulating, sounds better)
This way I can enjoy and get as much out of my game/money. I don't look down on cheaters it's there game they paid for it (hopefully) so what they do is fine just as long as they don't do it in multiplayer.....then they should die...come to think of it I think we have a law that makes you go free if you kill a multiplayer cheater....or we should have!

just IMHDO

Garcia · Post by **Garcia** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 2:57 am

Sorry guys!

Normally when I buy a new game as "strait"
as I possible can.

should have been: "Normally when I buy a new game I play it as "strait" as I possible can."

it's not like I steal the game (not to buy it "strait")

NCT · Post by **NCT** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 3:32 am

DICTUM:The end justifies the means
In that case,everything goes.However,that reminds me of the victor of the Battle of the Shooting Gallery.The targets don't shoot back!Then,why should there be any rules?I think there is no fun without them,not to mention that the name of the game should be changed als

therwise,as said,it's your game,so enjoy!!

Osiris · Post by **Osiris** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 5:01 am

Your money, your game - do whatever you like if it helps you enjoy the game.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 5:48 am

You do not need to buy the game at all if you will cheat - you have already won the game even before you have started it. Cheating isn't good in general.
On the other hand, you may find some behavior of the game unjust or unfair. An example: XP cap in BG2 - you can choose between a continual anger (instead a fun) because of not getting any reward (XP, improvements in saving throws, etc.) during the last two chapters of the game and an XP cap remover. The XP cap remover removes the anger for a while and reinstalls the fun. Well, the XP cap remover is a cheat but it isn't a fault. At least, it isnt't your fault.
As far as the multiplayer sessions are considered, all players must obey the same set of rules - perhaps the same set of cheats. Otherwise, the session is foul.
I consider cheating any manipulation of game files (binary editors, Shadowkeeper, installing console in BG1, level 50 rules, etc.). On the other hand, exploiting misuderstandings in the game logic or using installed features, like the console in BG2, aren't cheats. Such tools may be unsatisfactory but they aren't cheats because they were installed by the game itself.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 4:13 pm

Originally posted by Osiris:
Your money, your game - do whatever you like if it helps you enjoy the game.

Thank you....you know what I meant.

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 4:28 pm

I'm with Garcia. While I don't get all preachy about it, I think cheating the first time through is a shame. You're cheating yourself doing that by unbalancing the game. What fun is that? After a few runs...I'll cheat like hell. (I'm thinking solo assassin dualed to sorcerer via shadowkeeper...now THAT'S some cheating I can get behind!)

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 5:18 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with the your game your fun position.

There are however some good reasons for having (your own individually tailored) 'house rules' because this can actually increase your enjoyment of the game. A wiser sage than me (who wrote a damn fine BG1 walkthrough at (http://www.cyberjag.com/baldur/walkthrough/shandor.htm)). Set the rule for themself that they would not save and reload. Only if the main charactor dies they go back to the autosave. This guy obviously
a/ got sick of watching the load game screens instead of playing.
b/ wanted to recreate some of the tense atmosphere that comes from not knowing whether sudden death awaits. I don't play like that BUT I can see why someone might like to.

Is it also not true that once you have played even a particular segment of the game once, the second time is 'cheating' because you know what is there (hmmm)? This is another compelling reason for having 'house rules'.

I personally hate getting 1 H.P. level up rolls and would do save/reloads to 'fix' the problem, ditto with spell learning (especially if I had drunk potions to raise my intellegence and STILL failled) in BGII you can set the difficulty so that you always get full H.P. and always learn spells YIPPEE this makes my game more enjoyable so I do it this way.

All this goes back to the original statement 'your game, your fun' - Curdis

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 6:35 pm

Originally posted by fishhead:
I guess there really is no right or wrong answer.

Your right there isn't one. I beat the game the first time (without cheating) and enjoyed it. The point I was trying to make was don't let other people judge you no matter how you play the game.

And I would tell everyone to try and beat the game a least once before (cheating). Yes a computer is a bad DM.

The main thing is to enjoy the game and not to complain if you beat the game with (cheats)

IMHO

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 7:12 pm

the only form I can think of cheating is kicking the DM in balls when he screws you over by throwing a dragon into a tavern which you thought was safe. Unfortuneatly, you can't kick the balls of a computor DM, as it has none.

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I am not what you think I am.
I am not what I think I am.
I am what you think I think I am...

(Ponder over that one for a bit...)

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:04 am

We started off BGI... a group of 6 of us got together every other week at a friends house...set up the PCs and started the campaign. 2 of the people already had played it through before we even started...they finished it within a few weeks. We had this planned well before the game came out .. the first great multiplayer D&D computer game. We had made a time commitment well in advance..knowing that it would be a group effort. My wife and I were pretty solid on that there shouldn't be any cheating. It started off well enough...but one of the people played an extremely strong fighter...and devoured anything in her path. Not so bad so far...but with her prior knowledge of the game came impatience. She flew through conversations...not allowing us to follow the plot. In addition to that..she knew after what battles and where specific magic items were. For instance the boots of speed. Not only was she one of the fastest characters in the game...but now extremely fast. It came to the point that when the rest of the party would arrive in a location..there was virtually nothing left to fight...only the ground littered in corpses. As this was not entertaining to me...playing a fighter/thief...I struck out on my own. Unfortunately I was not nearly as powerful to take care of the minions I found and not fast enough to get away. Needless to say...there were alot of reloads. Pitted with this dilema(and the fighter unwilling to give up the speed)...we all agreed that we will duplicate the boots of speed. Thought that everything would be well and good, but myself and another player were pure elves...and therefore unable to wear the boots. So, now we had 4 people running around on speed, and us 2 lagging behind for the rest of the game. The fighter did not finish the game with us as it was boring to her as time went on. To his benefit..the other player who finished the game before did not give up much info on what was to come...and we all got to vote on the responses and were able to catch up a bit on the plot.

This Saturday we are going to start BG2, so I'm doing a bit of research on how to make the best character I can within the rules. It is too easy to pick up the editor..but I hope I have enough will power to resist temptation. It was hard to convince this new group to try and do it stratight from the get go. I had 1 person wanting to import everthing, 2 people totally opposed to any modification...and 2 of us were thinking about a limit of 1 to 3 items per player to import. I hope that we can all agree to try and do it without cheats. It's not like we haven't spent countless hours trying to roll up that great character...I know I have. It's easier to plop it in an editor and put all 18s in there...but I know that I have rolled a 18/00 with a few other 18s...the Lawful good way.

I hope this weekend is gonna be a great start to a great game.

Saumerez · Post by **Saumerez** » Fri Feb 16, 2001 6:30 am

I played through the first time using Core Rules and no hacks or cheats etc. I did ask for a couple spoilers though so I guess you could say I cheated.

I try to play as "straight" as I can but I am not going to ruin the game for myself to do it.

As for breaking the rules = cheating, all I can say is that if you buy the game it is YOUR game and YOU make the rules.

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Fri Feb 16, 2001 10:39 am

In a Plutonic world of perfect forms, yes cheating in a video game would be bad but this is reality and whatever makes you giggle then by all means go ahead and do it. =D

Shadowstrider · Post by **Shadowstrider** » Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:30 am

Cheating is anything that cannot be done in the NORMAL CONFINES of the game. So CLUA is cheating, customs(my site, teambg, others) are cheating.

HOWEVER there is nothing wrong with cheating as long as it stays within your game and does not bother another person's game. In short, do it to yourself no one else.

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