Doesn't anyone play Lionheart anymore?

[Ravager]

If you write the spoilers in black, then it's the choice of the reader whether they want to highlight it and get the spoiler otherwise they might accidentally read white text. That's the difference.

Hmm...Ranged should be more useful later on for you.
Spoiler- when you meet a large cliched Fantasy genre foe outside. You'll find out soon enough. Just keep going.

It's more useful not being hit in the first place than to have the ability to heal it. Though that helps.

I must say that playing this game so far has made me realise, as never before, the importance of getting as many skill points as possible! I was always keen on getting as many as I could, but now I realise that you eventually have to spend 2, 3, or even 4 (or more) skill points to raise a skill ONE miserable point! GRRR!!!

Heh, that's why we have Tag Skills and Perks that increase skills by 20 points when you'd have to put 40 in to get the same effect. :devil:

[Fljotsdale]

Ok, point made re: black text.

Ah. Right. I'll just look forward, then. :laugh:

[Ravager]

Now I've just cleared the last few things before fighting the English Army.
Mainly it was checking all the main merchants and also completing the Red Crystals.
I'd left the last encounter because the number of enemies. This time I could handle a small army of Lesser Brimstone Reavers though, especially when I ropped a couple of Firepowder Kegs. There must have been around 15 of them and they all died at once (150XP each) and good treasure too.
I found some Bracer that increased the Ranged skill by 39 points (though I had just bought some identical bracers ) and some other good stuff there.
So, now I'm clearing Montaillou of invaders.

[Fljotsdale]

VERY Nice! I won't boast about the one I found.

So you've been doing the Red Crystals? After getting killed several times I gave up on them. Granted I was pretty low-level at the time... Do the undead EVER stop coming?

My Exorcism makes mincemeat of Reavers now. I like to get them (and all undead, or, in fact, any crowd of anything) swarming all round my char, then zap 'em with a few Exorcisms. Very satisfying.

[Ravager]

With those crystals, first you get some normal sized brittle skeletons, then double that number Huge and then double again Reavers. Then the Crystal can't be used again.
There's so many Reavers that you'd probably need the Kegs or Exorcism to kill them all before they disappear, but they're pretty easy at high levels.
I was just surprised to see high-level treasure on them.

My Exorcism skill is still very weak, I think it only does 10-15 damage, anyway I'm into the Crossroads army now, not having too many problems, I think I can kill off 3 at a time without resorting to healing potions or a henchman.

[Fljotsdale]

I'll remember that about red crystals next time round. Thanks.

Don't remember what my Exorcism is. But the Divine:Smite skill is well over 150 points (as is Fortitude), plus I have a Necklace that adds 12 points to Exorcism.
But I don't feel so smug about it any more! I have found enemies that it barely touches - probably due to their high hit points.
I have found the final green crystal, sweet-talked my way through the encounter with our large friend and am now in the Maw of the Assassin. Shades of Lara Croft!! :laugh: :laugh: Only sans the concomitant athleticism!

Yeah, I hardly need healing potions any more. My ranged is so fast that if I happen to be getting low on health I can shoot, cast Heal, shoot, etc while the other guy is still aiming at me. (Well, almost, anyway, LOL!)

I really enjoyed the Desert areas. I love the lure and shoot game.

My char is level 42 now. Her perks are:

Swift Learner
Swift Learner 2
Educated
Mastery of Smiting
Mastery of Fortitude
Enlightenment
Power from Beyond
Bonus Rate of Fire
Bonus Ranged Damage
Gain Endurance
Damage Resistance
Deadly Accuracy
Fire Evasion
More Criticals

Her main weakness is STILL a very low -3 Electrical Resistance. Better than the -13 she started with, though.

A small tip, in case you are not aware of it:

When you finally work your way to the area beyond the door to the NE of the second room - the one with the dome - there is a chest surrounded by rotating blades, yes? After I clicked on it, my finger twitched so that I accidentally clicked on it again - and another item came out. Wanting to be sure of it, I reloaded and clicked on it twice on purpose, and did it several times. Another item came out each time.

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]
But I don't feel so smug about it any more! I have found enemies that it barely touches - probably due to their high hit points. [/QUOTE]

Heh. Serves you right!
That's part of the reason I try not to rely on spells, there's always the possibility that they have an immunity or it simply has little effect (check the damage being done and see what they're resisting, that might help identify what's happening).

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I have found the final green crystal, sweet-talked my way through the encounter with our large friend and am now in the Maw of the Assassin. [/QUOTE]

Ah, you passed the giant cliche? Hmm, I had to fight it, it was quite easy though, you can stand near the entrance of the area avoiding all damage (IIRC) firing a bow at it.
That's the point from where Ranged Weapons start becoming really useful.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Yeah, I hardly need healing potions any more. My ranged is so fast that if I happen to be getting low on health I can shoot, cast Heal, shoot, etc while the other guy is still aiming at me. (Well, almost, anyway, LOL!)[/QUOTE]

How are you doing for ammunition? Personally I stick with the Unlimited Arrows and Bolts 95% of the time, it may be slower than the better missiles, but I always like preserving stuff.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]When you finally work your way to the area beyond the door to the NE of the second room - the one with the dome - there is a chest surrounded by rotating blades, yes? After I clicked on it, my finger twitched so that I accidentally clicked on it again - and another item came out. Wanting to be sure of it, I reloaded and clicked on it twice on purpose, and did it several times. Another item came out each time.[/QUOTE]

I think I vaguely remember that, the key is to see whether the use cursor (spinning icon) is still there and whether the chest is flashing or not. It did catch me out once though.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] Heh. Serves you right!
That's part of the reason I try not to rely on spells, there's always the possibility that they have an immunity or it simply has little effect (check the damage being done and see what they're resisting, that might help identify what's happening).[/quote]

Yeah... I find I only use a VERY few spells, especially now that Ranged is so good.

Erm... how can you tell what they are Resisting? There is only the Status to show their health, nothing about viewing enemy resistances that I can find in the Manual. Or do you mean to just check how much damage is being done by various spells?


[QUOTE=Ravager]Ah, you passed the giant cliche? Hmm, I had to fight it, it was quite easy though, you can stand near the entrance of the area avoiding all damage (IIRC) firing a bow at it.
That's the point from where Ranged Weapons start becoming really useful.[/quote]

I considered fighting it, but then, it seemed such a waste not to use her high Speech skill. With two items that raised her level by 10 each, she has a skill rating of 139 Speech.

Yes, Ranged is pretty essential right now! In fact, I think it would be nearly impossible without it.

[QUOTE=Ravager]How are you doing for ammunition? Personally I stick with the Unlimited Arrows and Bolts 95% of the time, it may be slower than the better missiles, but I always like preserving stuff. [/quote]

I have plenty. I grab any arrows/bolts I find. I have a decent crossbow (as well as two good bows), in case I run out of good arrows. But yes, the everlasting ones work fine. Just takes longer to eliminate the resistance, lol! Quite a lot longer in some cases. I am saving some good arrows/bolts for the end. Whenever possible, I stand my char in a location the enemy can't reach. There are some handy walls and groups of rocks in the desert areas, for example.

[QUOTE=Ravager]I think I vaguely remember that, the key is to see whether the use cursor (spinning icon) is still there and whether the chest is flashing or not. It did catch me out once though. [/QUOTE]

I thought you would know; but I mentioned it just in case you didn't. There was a time when I didn't realise that bookshelves in houses in Barcelona had more than one item in them. :laugh:

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Or do you mean to just check how much damage is being done by various spells? [/QUOTE]

Yeah, where it shows the damage done to the opponent. It says something like (YourCharacter) hits (Enemy) for X damage (X resisted). The bottom-centre of the screen.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I considered fighting it, but then, it seemed such a waste not to use her high Speech skill. With two items that raised her level by 10 each, she has a skill rating of 139 Speech.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, if you have the opportunity to talk your way out of it, you may as well. There's only the possibility on missing out on a little treasure (the XP should be the same or better).

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I thought you would know; but I mentioned it just in case you didn't. [/QUOTE]

Thanks for mentioning it.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager]Yeah, where it shows the damage done to the opponent. It says something like (YourCharacter) hits (Enemy) for X damage (X resisted). The bottom-centre of the screen.[/quote]

I glance at it sometimes, but it moves so fast when you are fighting! But one or two attempts with a particular spell that results in little affect on the health of the enemy is almost as good an indicator, I think. I WOULD like status bar that tells resistances, though, as in some games if your level in a particular skill - such as Identify Monster (Might & Magic) - is high enough.


[QUOTE=Ravager]Thanks for mentioning it. [/QUOTE]

No problem. It might help someone else reading this thread.

[Ravager]

Well, if you pause the game and just look at one of your hits, you should see how damage is inflicted and how much is resisted, then you can work out what they're resistant to (and how much). So, if you're using something electrical damage and see that you're hitting but not doing much damage, then you should probably switch or cast a spell that weakens their resistances.
You should be very close to the end of the game now, maybe a couple of floors away.
*sigh* Looks like there's not much time left for me to give advice on your game then.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager]Well, if you pause the game and just look at one of your hits, you should see how damage is inflicted and how much is resisted, then you can work out what they're resistant to (and how much). So, if you're using something electrical damage and see that you're hitting but not doing much damage, then you should probably switch or cast a spell that weakens their resistances.
You should be very close to the end of the game now, maybe a couple of floors away.
*sigh* Looks like there's not much time left for me to give advice on your game then. [/QUOTE]

I'm doing ok, thanks to your advice. Especially the advice to Tag Divine:Fortitude. EXCELLENT branch of magic. You were SO right!

I've just completed the Chamber of Torment. Very interesting! I had a lot of fun with this one. Carefully avoiding those 'mouths' opposite the entrance stairs I worked my way round it, wondering what those jewelled teeth were for. Eventually obliged to face the mouths; the Old Man showed up (I suspect he was the one talking to Torquemada at the Inquisition?).

Well, anyway, there is only one place for teeth. So that was alright.:laugh:

And what a fantastic bow!

I am just about to go down the next flight of stairs.

But I won't be able to play until fairly late tomorrow - I have my youngest grandson all day, and he's 2 & 1/2. Trouble on legs!

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I'm doing ok, thanks to your advice. Especially the advice to Tag Divine:Fortitude. EXCELLENT branch of magic. You were SO right! [/QUOTE]

Heh, it's good, but I still haven't put 100 points into it this time round.
I just like the ability to heal as much as possible without resorting to potions.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I've just completed the Chamber of Torment. Very interesting! I had a lot of fun with this one. Carefully avoiding those 'mouths' opposite the entrance stairs I worked my way round it, wondering what those jewelled teeth were for. Eventually obliged to face the mouths [/QUOTE]

I don't really remember the names of the floors (I only visited the place once. I remember the Acid Bath level. You've probably seen it already. The name speas for itself.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]the Old Man showed up (I suspect he was the one talking to Torquemada at the Inquisition?). [/QUOTE]

I think so, the appearance and voice are the same, though I don't why them seemed on such good terms, even though Torquemada was hardly the sanest in the game.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]And what a fantastic bow! [/QUOTE]

Any bow in particular?
Or do you just mean the Ranged skill in general?

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]But I won't be able to play until fairly late tomorrow - I have my youngest grandson all day, and he's 2 & 1/2. Trouble on legs![/QUOTE]

Heh, have fun with that.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] Heh, it's good, but I still haven't put 100 points into it this time round.
I just like the ability to heal as much as possible without resorting to potions.[/quote]

It's all those lovely protections I like. Such as +41 all Resistances...


[QUOTE=Ravager]I don't really remember the names of the floors (I only visited the place once. I remember the Acid Bath level. You've probably seen it already. The name speas for itself.[/quote]

Chamber of Torment is the one below Acid Bath. Which really wasn't very terrible. I thought the acid would follow me all round, but it didn't.

[QUOTE=Ravager]I think so, the appearance and voice are the same, though I don't why them seemed on such good terms, even though Torquemada was hardly the sanest in the game.[/quote]

Probably just there to make a point about how evil the real Inquisition was...

[QUOTE=Ravager]Any bow in particular?
Or do you just mean the Ranged skill in general?[/quote]

You remember there are 4 mouths, a gap with the stairs down, then the other two mouths and then a chest under a dome? When you open that chest an assassin appears out of the air? Ok. To left of the dome, on the rear wall, is a secret door. Beyond it is a chest with a fantastic bow in it. Red, and fancy-looking with +40 piercing. The other two fancy bows in the game - Ice (and Electric, I think) - only have +20 piercing.

Or maybe you get a fantastic melee weapon if you are a melee fighter? I dunno. But it's a great bow!

[Fljotsdale]

I have just left her standing in front of the portal to the last level - I assume. She's level 47. I gave her Gain Strength for her last Perk. It gets harder to choose Perks as you go up in level, I find. I expect I shall find out what I should have taken very soon!

I have done multi-looting in this place. Not to get good stuff, but to get light stuff! (I can't just ignore chests!) And any potions of Healing/Extra Healing I could. I don't suppose I shall get the opportunity to sell any of it, anyway, so it seemed pointless to carry heavy stuff around - I left a lot just lying on the floor.

I'll post again when I have completed - or failed to complete! - the game.

[Ravager]

Okay, good luck!
And watch out for monster summoning traps. I believe they exist, though I had absolutey no luck in finding them.
I think I used all of my 30+ Firepowder Kegs and Extra Healing Potions.

Or maybe you get a fantastic melee weapon if you are a melee fighter? I dunno. But it's a great bow!

I think that it is only a bow that's on offer, no melee equivalent.

[Fljotsdale]

OhhhhhhhhKay.

Well, after getting the Grim Reaper 4 times in a row I finally tagged what I needed to do!

My first instinct was to run and grab the three items on the ground, but of course, you can only get the middle one. (I did try using Diplomacy, btw, but although I got some responses I didn't get without enhancing items equipped, it made no difference to the outcome of the conversation.)Anyway, after the deaths, I decided to run the other way to that interesting trapped pillar near the entrance, and disarmed it. There were no difficult interruptions after that, and I was able to eliminate the final 'obstacle' with little trouble. Didn't even need the kegs. Da Vinci survived, but I never thought to alternate sides of the 'arena' so as to keep both prisoners alive. Oh, well. Not that it made any difference.

However, I was a little disappointed with the outcome. The cut scenes were all very well (and promising of a sequel) but I think a little lauding of Our Hero would have been nice, - as well as a ceremonial of some sort around the restored Relics.

Overall, though, the game was much better and more interesting than I had been led to believe by some people who hated it with a passion. I am, myself, not overly keen on 'tabletop' viewpoint games, despite having enjoyed the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale series. And I hate the character portraits. Really, really hate them. And the Manual is full of errors.

But I enjoyed myself a lot, regardless!:laugh: :laugh:

Now to start over, armed with all the knowledge I have gained. And warm thanks to you, Ravager. You have been helpful and courteous, and I appreciate both.

[Ravager]

If I remember correctly you need an obscenly high Diplomacy skill to get out of that battle. Something in the tune of 300(highlight that, though I believe it's in the GB walkthrough too)?
It makes sense for it to be that high though, considering it is the last thing in the game.

As for my ending, I played the Dark Wielders for that- I think Da Vinci (Galileo died I think) said that I would never get my hands on the relics or something like that. Then it transported me to Le Calle Perdida in front of a large army of Undead, the plan being to destroy everything with it and gain power I guess.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]
However, I was a little disappointed with the outcome. The cut scenes were all very well (and promising of a sequel) but I think a little lauding of Our Hero would have been nice, - as well as a ceremonial of some sort around the restored Relics.[/QUOTE]

I doubt there will be a sequel, the game producers, Black Isle no longer exist, nor does their parent company Interplay. Both went out of business and Lionheart didn't really sell enough copies to warrant someone else buying the rights and making a sequel. It's a shame, I would have liked to see a follow-up to the alternate history time-line. Ah well, anything's possible, it could still happen.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Overall, though, the game was much better and more interesting than I had been led to believe by some people who hated it with a passion. I am, myself, not overly keen on 'tabletop' viewpoint games, despite having enjoyed the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale series. And I hate the character portraits. Really, really hate them. And the Manual is full of errors.[/QUOTE]

If you mean BG/IWD portraits I can tell you how those can be customised (or search for threads in the respective forums), I have lots of those myself. Customising NPC portrait is also possible though not as simple to do.
Maybe the Readme file for the game has the updated game details? I think there is one. Check on the CD or in the game folder.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]But I enjoyed myself a lot, regardless!:laugh: :laugh:

Now to start over, armed with all the knowledge I have gained. And warm thanks to you, Ravager. You have been helpful and courteous, and I appreciate both. [/QUOTE]

I'm glad to have been of help.
If you need any more suggestions feel free to ask.

[Fljotsdale]

Oh, you played evil! :laugh: I always play 'good guy'. I've tried the 'evil' path is some games (not Lionheart) but I feel SO uncomfortable I have to stop.

No, I meant the Lionheart 'portraits'/'paper doll' figures. You can't see what they actually LOOK like in character creation, nor on-screen. I like faces I can identify with, not just a tiny, nondescript sketch of a face. BG etc had proper faces, even if some were as ugly as sin! :laugh:

Yes, I'll stick around, and if I need further help you can depend on me asking! :laugh:

I also feel moderately comfortable about offering snippets of advice to other new players, too, now, even though I know you will do a better job of it.

Yeah... I'd forgotten the company liquidated. Pity.

[aroghan]

have anyone try playing using a melee character, to tell the truth i'm just gonna start using aranged one, my melee dude reach the maw of the assasin, while the mage one i the crypt, just wanna know to compare my get up if anyone playing with a melee.