ere everybody. I have been playing and restarting this game for a little while now, never very seriously as I know my playing style and want to get used to the different characters and stuff before really trying to give this game a go.
So, I think I have settled on the following party. Please let me know what you think:
Character 1:
Shield Dwarf
Fighter 4/ Barbarian X
Role: Tank
Character 2:
Aasimar
Fighter 4/ Paladin of Helm X
Role: Tank, talker
Character 3:
Human, Tiefling or Halfling (haven't decided yet)
Rogue 2/ Bard X
Role: Thief-type, will sing and handle quest rewards. Archer in combat.
Character 4:
Human
Paladin 1/ Sorcerer X
Role: Spellcaster, artillery. I know the Paladin level takes away from the spellcasting, but Divine Grace is too good to ignore. The one level dip should hurt too bad in the end.
Character 5:
Shield Dwarf
Cleric; Battleguard of Tempus X
Role: Cleric! The free Weapon Focus feat will allow me to treat this character as a tank as well when needed. I like the Power Word spells on the higher levels a lot.
Character 6:
Wild Elf
Druid X
Role: Druid! I was going to go Drow originally here, but I think I'm better off being a more powerful spellcaster. I chose Elf because I like the idea of having this character double as an archer for my party.
Comments:
When I first started fiddling with ideas for characters in this game, I was coming up with some wild multiclasses, and ended up creating less powerful characters than I think I would ever have done normally. I want to be able to have all of my spellcasters advance very quickly, so I left out all of the ECL races with these guys. I took a dip into other classes with some spellcasters, but it was all with good reason. The Sorcerer would normally have the lowest hit points out of my party, but Divine Grace will save him from area effect spells somewhat. The Bard is in a similar boat, but with maxed out dexterity and the Evasion ability from the Rogue class, he should be able to avoid a lot of damage too. Since I view the Bard as the weakest spellcaster, but with many other abilities to make up for it, it isn't so bad that he is two levels behind as a spellcaster. My healing characters all will be the highest levels possible. The first two characters should make great tanks. I know the Fighter/Paladin will be a level behind the Fighter/Barbarian, but I don't think it matters very much when it comes to tanks. I'm not overly concerned with Paladin spellcasting either. I'll view it as a bonus when I get it, but I'm not building my character on it either.
Please let me know what you think of this party, as well as any suggestions on altering it. Also, I would love some advice on how to place stats for these guys, as I don't know what I really need in this game. I also need skills and feats advice. Please try not to spoil me too much, as it will be my first real run through of the game. This is really a rough outline of what I want my party to be, but nothing is set in stone yet.
New Party for me, please read and comment
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krunchyfrogg
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New Party for me, please read and comment
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
- Jackie Robinson
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silverdragon72
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.
...what's your goal with this party build-up?
...roleplaying, powergaming...
...normal game or beating HOF?
...from a powergaming point of view this party is quite weak, especially if you want to go for HOF!
...much to much melee for HOF!
...if you want a roleplaying party - every party you choose is fine - but if you are looking for a powergaming party - read my guide, JUPP or best both!
.
...what's your goal with this party build-up?
...roleplaying, powergaming...
...normal game or beating HOF?
...from a powergaming point of view this party is quite weak, especially if you want to go for HOF!
...much to much melee for HOF!
...if you want a roleplaying party - every party you choose is fine - but if you are looking for a powergaming party - read my guide, JUPP or best both!
.
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Raven_Song
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Hello again...
I will gladly offer you some suggestions, your party bears a spookily similar resemblance to the standard party I usually play, however please be aware that I'm not a power-gamer and no have interest in HoF mode, so my comments are based on a normal game. I should also probably say I don't min-max stats so any stats suggestions I make are based on this premise.
Shield Dwarf - Barbarian (X) Fighter (4)
Solid choice. I usually opt for a good damaging two-handed weapon (great sword or halberd, with a hammer/shield combo for golems etc.) and generally deck this character out in medium armour (still giving him a dex of 14). Max STR and CON and don't neglect WIS.
Aasimar - Paladin of Helm (X) Fighter (4)
I usually switch the levels aiming for Paladin of Helm (3) Fighter (X), I prefer the extra feats to the spells, I can invest extra points in CHA and this way the character can max Intimidate (I split talking skills between this character and my bard). More generally I usually deck this character out in heavy armour and have them specialise in Large Sword (and some blunt weapon) and use a shield in their off hand.
Bard (X) Rogue (2) - Race?
I tend to go for tiefling, as I can max out INT alllowing me the necessary skill points to develop a range of skills. Having a max CHA of 16 is not too much of a problem as the racial advantage of +2 Bluff is a boon and there is always the courteous magocracy feat and the Eagle's Splendour spell. DEX is also helpful (make use of Cat's Grace) and weapon wise I'd recommend crossbow.
Human - Sorcerer (X) Paladin (1)
Another solid choice. Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy/Evocation and your well away, its probably best to concentrate on 1 or 2 elemental feats (I opt for fire and ice) but its largely personal preference. Also consider greater Spell Focus: Enchantment is often overlooked for sorcerers but be aware that some of the best mid-level spells are Enchantments.
Shield Dwarf - Battleguard of Tempus (X)
You can't really go wrong with this character, Max WIS, STR and CON and away you go. Heavy Armour/Axes if you want him/her to dual wield remember to allocate them enough dexterity to do this, I usually go for 2 Handed axes or axe/shield
Wild Elf - Druid (X)
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.
If you plan to make use of shapeshifting (whether it be regular or Weimar modded) you might want to consider adding a Barbarian, (for rage ability) or 1-3 levels of monk (For AC bonus and other monk nicities) to your druid, in which case you'd have to switch races to either Human or Half-Elf (I usually go human)
Hope this helps a little, if you need any clarification or expansion on certain points just let me know.
I will gladly offer you some suggestions, your party bears a spookily similar resemblance to the standard party I usually play, however please be aware that I'm not a power-gamer and no have interest in HoF mode, so my comments are based on a normal game. I should also probably say I don't min-max stats so any stats suggestions I make are based on this premise.
Shield Dwarf - Barbarian (X) Fighter (4)
Solid choice. I usually opt for a good damaging two-handed weapon (great sword or halberd, with a hammer/shield combo for golems etc.) and generally deck this character out in medium armour (still giving him a dex of 14). Max STR and CON and don't neglect WIS.
Aasimar - Paladin of Helm (X) Fighter (4)
I usually switch the levels aiming for Paladin of Helm (3) Fighter (X), I prefer the extra feats to the spells, I can invest extra points in CHA and this way the character can max Intimidate (I split talking skills between this character and my bard). More generally I usually deck this character out in heavy armour and have them specialise in Large Sword (and some blunt weapon) and use a shield in their off hand.
Bard (X) Rogue (2) - Race?
I tend to go for tiefling, as I can max out INT alllowing me the necessary skill points to develop a range of skills. Having a max CHA of 16 is not too much of a problem as the racial advantage of +2 Bluff is a boon and there is always the courteous magocracy feat and the Eagle's Splendour spell. DEX is also helpful (make use of Cat's Grace) and weapon wise I'd recommend crossbow.
Human - Sorcerer (X) Paladin (1)
Another solid choice. Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy/Evocation and your well away, its probably best to concentrate on 1 or 2 elemental feats (I opt for fire and ice) but its largely personal preference. Also consider greater Spell Focus: Enchantment is often overlooked for sorcerers but be aware that some of the best mid-level spells are Enchantments.
Shield Dwarf - Battleguard of Tempus (X)
You can't really go wrong with this character, Max WIS, STR and CON and away you go. Heavy Armour/Axes if you want him/her to dual wield remember to allocate them enough dexterity to do this, I usually go for 2 Handed axes or axe/shield
Wild Elf - Druid (X)
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.
If you plan to make use of shapeshifting (whether it be regular or Weimar modded) you might want to consider adding a Barbarian, (for rage ability) or 1-3 levels of monk (For AC bonus and other monk nicities) to your druid, in which case you'd have to switch races to either Human or Half-Elf (I usually go human)
Hope this helps a little, if you need any clarification or expansion on certain points just let me know.
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krunchyfrogg
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[QUOTE=silverdragon72].
...what's your goal with this party build-up?
[/QUOTE]
Well, at the end of the day, to have fun. I like powerful characters, but don't really like having to wait forever for a concept to come together. I want a pretty clear idea of what the character will look like at level 30 when he is still on level 4 or 5 (so no characters with more than 3 classes). I don't like useless levels either: When I played IWD1, my mage almost always had high level spell slots, but no spells to scribe there, so the spots were wasted. I would like to get a good feel of what each class has to offer (except that I'm not really all that interested in Monk, but I suppose my mind could change). I would like to see a Druid, a Cleric, a Wizard or Sorcerer, and a Bard in my party.
I don't want to have a difficult time with the game, but I also want a "reasonably realistic" experience (if that makes any sense).
...what's your goal with this party build-up?
[/QUOTE]
Well, at the end of the day, to have fun. I like powerful characters, but don't really like having to wait forever for a concept to come together. I want a pretty clear idea of what the character will look like at level 30 when he is still on level 4 or 5 (so no characters with more than 3 classes). I don't like useless levels either: When I played IWD1, my mage almost always had high level spell slots, but no spells to scribe there, so the spots were wasted. I would like to get a good feel of what each class has to offer (except that I'm not really all that interested in Monk, but I suppose my mind could change). I would like to see a Druid, a Cleric, a Wizard or Sorcerer, and a Bard in my party.
I don't want to have a difficult time with the game, but I also want a "reasonably realistic" experience (if that makes any sense).
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
- Jackie Robinson
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krunchyfrogg
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[QUOTE=Raven_Song]
Wild Elf - Druid (X)
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.
[/QUOTE]
I'm confused. Do you dislike the Wild Elf choice?
Wild Elf - Druid (X)
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.
[/QUOTE]
I'm confused. Do you dislike the Wild Elf choice?
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
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krunchyfrogg
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[QUOTE=Raven_Song]
Aasimar - Paladin of Helm (X) Fighter (4)
I usually switch the levels aiming for Paladin of Helm (3) Fighter (X), I prefer the extra feats to the spells, I can invest extra points in CHA and this way the character can max Intimidate (I split talking skills between this character and my bard). More generally I usually deck this character out in heavy armour and have them specialise in Large Sword (and some blunt weapon) and use a shield in their off hand.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, that's a very interesting proposal, and I'll have to think about it (I can really see "Draw Upon Holy Might" being very useful down the line). Maybe a balanced mix of the two classes would be better as well. That could also afford me to place a lower score in wisdom (I have been shooting for 13 or 14), since spellcasting would not be so important. Another big reason I was shooting for a ton of Paladin levels was that I wanted to max out my diplomacy skill. But that might change, because I have a different party idea brewing:
I'm still sticking with the Aasimar Fighter/Paladin, the Dwarf Fighter/Barbarian, and the Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus, amd the Wild Elf Druid, but the rest of the party will get a little revision:
1)I am thinking about a full-time bard. Maybe make her a drow, for the great bonus to bard stats. I could also go with a human bard, and multiclass into sorceress after bard level 11, since the class doesnt look like it offers much more after the level 11 song is aquired. this character would max out charasma and take all the talking skills. If I add sorcerer levels, she could be the backup spellcaster to the next guy i am going to describe, so i wont be too worried about the lower level she would be when compared to the rest of the party.
2)I am thinking about my main wizard being a tiefling who starts with 2 levels of rogue, for evasion. All levels after that would be in wizard. he would start iwth a 20 intelligence and would be maxxxed out in every skill i could ever need.
So, which of the two parties do you like better?
Aasimar - Paladin of Helm (X) Fighter (4)
I usually switch the levels aiming for Paladin of Helm (3) Fighter (X), I prefer the extra feats to the spells, I can invest extra points in CHA and this way the character can max Intimidate (I split talking skills between this character and my bard). More generally I usually deck this character out in heavy armour and have them specialise in Large Sword (and some blunt weapon) and use a shield in their off hand.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, that's a very interesting proposal, and I'll have to think about it (I can really see "Draw Upon Holy Might" being very useful down the line). Maybe a balanced mix of the two classes would be better as well. That could also afford me to place a lower score in wisdom (I have been shooting for 13 or 14), since spellcasting would not be so important. Another big reason I was shooting for a ton of Paladin levels was that I wanted to max out my diplomacy skill. But that might change, because I have a different party idea brewing:
I'm still sticking with the Aasimar Fighter/Paladin, the Dwarf Fighter/Barbarian, and the Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus, amd the Wild Elf Druid, but the rest of the party will get a little revision:
1)I am thinking about a full-time bard. Maybe make her a drow, for the great bonus to bard stats. I could also go with a human bard, and multiclass into sorceress after bard level 11, since the class doesnt look like it offers much more after the level 11 song is aquired. this character would max out charasma and take all the talking skills. If I add sorcerer levels, she could be the backup spellcaster to the next guy i am going to describe, so i wont be too worried about the lower level she would be when compared to the rest of the party.
2)I am thinking about my main wizard being a tiefling who starts with 2 levels of rogue, for evasion. All levels after that would be in wizard. he would start iwth a 20 intelligence and would be maxxxed out in every skill i could ever need.
So, which of the two parties do you like better?
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
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silverdragon72
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.
...if you want powerfull PCs and you plan to go for HOF (in this case you will need powerfull PCs anyway)...
...I would strongly recommend in reading the powergaming guides...
...or you risk to get quite frustrated after 20 or 30 gaming hours and restart the game with a new party...-...the 3.5 edition is quite complex and HOF is really tough for a party with just average PCs!
I would suggest that each PC in a HOF party is build on a major caster class (15 to 25 caster levels depending on the caster class)...
...with mixing in the right 1 to 3 additional classes (2 to 4 levels each)...
...this way you will get the most powerfull builds in IWD2 - and each PC will still have a clear concept!
.
...if you want powerfull PCs and you plan to go for HOF (in this case you will need powerfull PCs anyway)...
...I would strongly recommend in reading the powergaming guides...
...or you risk to get quite frustrated after 20 or 30 gaming hours and restart the game with a new party...-...the 3.5 edition is quite complex and HOF is really tough for a party with just average PCs!
I would suggest that each PC in a HOF party is build on a major caster class (15 to 25 caster levels depending on the caster class)...
...with mixing in the right 1 to 3 additional classes (2 to 4 levels each)...
...this way you will get the most powerfull builds in IWD2 - and each PC will still have a clear concept!
.
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Raven_Song
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Dislike no ... it is a viable build. However I was concenred that you were limiting the potential of druid just so s/he could use a bow.I'm confused. Do you dislike the Wild Elf choice?
I'd suggesting making the drow male, as his favoured class wizard better compliments a bard if you decided to multiclass at some point.1)I am thinking about a full-time bard. Maybe make her a drow, for the great bonus to bard stats.
With this build you will need to carefully plan what order you take the levels to ensure that the character is capable of contributing positively throughout the game.I could also go with a human bard, and multiclass into sorceress after bard level 11, since the class doesnt look like it offers much more after the level 11 song is aquired. this character would max out charasma and take all the talking skills. If I add sorcerer levels, she could be the backup spellcaster to the next guy i am going to describe, so i wont be too worried about the lower level she would be when compared to the rest of the party.
Most people usually take a rogue/wizard as their back-up spellcaster. If you're planning on making him your primary wizard there are a few points to considerI am thinking about my main wizard being a tiefling who starts with 2 levels of rogue, for evasion. All levels after that would be in wizard. he would start iwth a 20 intelligence and would be maxxxed out in every skill i could ever need.
1.) Wizards can cast fewer spells per day than a sorcerers, which is not a useful for bombarding enemies
2.) Wizards are dependent upon buying/finding scrolls to learn new spells. Just becuase your wizard can cast X level spells doesn't mean you will have found the appropriate scrolls
Personally the first one, I'm wary of you having a wizard as your primary spell caster, I can see it causing more problems than solving them.So, which of the two parties do you like better?
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RadiantBastard
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[QUOTE=Raven_Song] Wild Elf - Druid (X)
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.[/QUOTE]
Bolts may deliver more damage, but you can get an extra attack with the Rapid Shot feat (Bow only iirc), so in the end, the bow will be more effective.
In my humble opinion off course.
I'd reconsider making this character a wild elf just because they gain a free Bow feat. I've personally always found them to be less effective than crossbows/slings. But again its up to you.[/QUOTE]
Bolts may deliver more damage, but you can get an extra attack with the Rapid Shot feat (Bow only iirc), so in the end, the bow will be more effective.
In my humble opinion off course.
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Raven_Song
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True you do get an extra attack, but I think it might work for slings as wellBolts may deliver more damage, but you can get an extra attack with the Rapid Shot feat (Bow only iirc)
Perhaps ... I'll try and explain why I made my suggestion...so in the end, the bow will be more effective.
I was working on the basis of that particular build considering:
* Will it spend most of its time in ranged combat?
* Will it have enough feats to invest in Rapid Shot?
As it was a Druid I probably should have just said slings, as they don't start with a proficiency point in crossbow
(I think I must have been hoping Krunchy would go for the monk/druid in which case it wouldn't be a problem)
Druids should be prioritizing casting and probably shapeshifting over ranged combat in which case rapid shot would be less important than the Elemental, Spell Focus and Combat Casting and Wild Shape feats.
(Of course a player is free to use the druid as melee/ranged unit however, they wouldn't really get the full druidic experience if they ignored shapeshifting)
Was Krunchy proposing a dedicated sniper build I would agree with you totally, Bows and perhaps Slings would be more effective than crossbows.
However for spellcasters who just need something to fire after running out of magical ammo I've always gone for crossbow because they do more damage and don't require the rapid shot feat.
Your opinion is every bit as valid as mine - there is no real right or wrong answer it just whatever you find best works for you, for me it was crossbow so that's what I suggestedIn my humble opinion off course.
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krunchyfrogg
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[QUOTE=Raven_Song]Dislike no ... it is a viable build. However I was concenred that you were limiting the potential of druid just so s/he could use a bow. [/quote]And what would increase the power? Making the character Drow (I had considered that).
[QUOTE=Raven_Song]With this build you will need to carefully plan what order you take the levels to ensure that the character is capable of contributing positively throughout the game.[/quote]It would be taking 11 levels of Bard first, then switching to Sorcerer.
Thanks for the help!
[QUOTE=Raven_Song]With this build you will need to carefully plan what order you take the levels to ensure that the character is capable of contributing positively throughout the game.[/quote]It would be taking 11 levels of Bard first, then switching to Sorcerer.
Thanks for the help!
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
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krunchyfrogg
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[QUOTE=Raven_Song]
(I think I must have been hoping Krunchy would go for the monk/druid in which case it wouldn't be a problem)
[/QUOTE]What does a level of monk do (or do I need more than that)?
Hmmm... I know I'd be stunting Druid levels a bit if I did this, but what do you think of a LN Monk 1/Cleric of Bane 1/Druid X ?
(I think I must have been hoping Krunchy would go for the monk/druid in which case it wouldn't be a problem)
[/QUOTE]What does a level of monk do (or do I need more than that)?
Hmmm... I know I'd be stunting Druid levels a bit if I did this, but what do you think of a LN Monk 1/Cleric of Bane 1/Druid X ?
A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives.
- Jackie Robinson
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Raven_Song
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I'd be more tempted to go Bard (5) Sorcerer (6) Bard (6) Sorcerer (X)It would be taking 11 levels of Bard first, then switching to Sorcerer.
THat way you'd gain the benefits of both classes early on. By leaving the sorcerer levels 'til the end you run the risk of only having lower level spells in later chapters when creatures are more likley to resist them. By hitting sorc level 6 earlier this character will be able to actively contribute in combat (Fireball) then continue development in the bard class.
The AC bonus that monks gain from WIS works while your druid is Shapeshifted making them that little bit better protected. With druid monks people tend to either invest 1 or 3 levels, 3 levels give you a few other nicities but are not essential.What does a level of monk do (or do I need more than that)?
Never tried but theoretically it would work quite nicely given the reward of the quest for Banite priests. I'd be tempted to take the Cleric level just before completign this quest though so it would not slow your druids development down too much. (I always like to have Rainstorm at the beginning of Chapter 1 - combining it with Entangle my druid virtually took out Torak's army by herself. Its definitely one of the best lower level area affect spells if used properly.Hmmm... I know I'd be stunting Druid levels a bit if I did this, but what do you think of a LN Monk 1/Cleric of Bane 1/Druid X ?
who does magey things?
Krunchyfrogg, your party and its developement looks effective and a fun party to play with.
One thing I wondered about. Who is going to do the arcane stuff (since you don't have mage). Like alchemy and knowledge arcana? I always worry about not having that both for quest needs and for identifying stuff.
I guess the sorceror could do it but then you have to raise intelligence which is the non-casting stat and you lose out on the physical attributes.
I always face this same dilemma as I don't like the mages reliance on scrolls either.
myrophine
Krunchyfrogg, your party and its developement looks effective and a fun party to play with.
One thing I wondered about. Who is going to do the arcane stuff (since you don't have mage). Like alchemy and knowledge arcana? I always worry about not having that both for quest needs and for identifying stuff.
I guess the sorceror could do it but then you have to raise intelligence which is the non-casting stat and you lose out on the physical attributes.
I always face this same dilemma as I don't like the mages reliance on scrolls either.
myrophine