Haste makes Waste(d Adventurers)

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:55 am

Does casting Haste make a party prone to early Fatigue?

I'm in level 4 or 5 of the Dragon's Eye where I'm trying to locate and destroy that bastard High Summoner who keeps birthing Trolls and Lizardmen. I use Haste a lot and noticed that my party seems to get Fatigued almost immediately after the effects of Haste wear off. Is this normal? It's not described in the spell description, but I'm assuming it's another omission in the user manual.

CaptRory · Post by **CaptRory** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:01 am

I haven't played IWD in years but I think haste does cause fatigue. If you can switch over to improved Haste and see if it stops.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:00 pm

Haste Does Fatigue

Haste will indeed fatigue your party.
I hate that High Summoner as well

I don't "think" he will summon new stuff if the last ones summoned are still walking around. You could try casting invisibility on everyone, ignore the summons, and go find him. You can kill the summons later after dealing with him. Once you know where he is, it is easy to make a bee line for him on subsequent run throughs once you handle the first big fight. I hate that guy so much that I bypass everything on that level after the initial fight to take him out first. On my first run through I faced about 5 or 6 sets of summons before I finally found him. Was just about out of healing spells (which is probably the point of that guy summoning so much).

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:30 pm

Thanks for advice. I will definitely have to try the invisibility spells/potions and make a sneak attack.

Yeah, that level is a ***** to get through. The HS is my next target. I was busy taking out the Eldathyn priest-impersonators and then the High Ritualist having dinner (hehe). Those were horrendously hard-fought battles, but lots of fun when you can cast Web and Entangle at the same time then lob a few fireballs into the mess!
I've had to run out of that level after each big fight to rest and then return.
[QUOTE=Philos]Haste will indeed fatigue your party.
I hate that High Summoner as well

I don't "think" he will summon new stuff if the last ones summoned are still walking around. You could try casting invisibility on everyone, ignore the summons, and go find him. You can kill the summons later after dealing with him. Once you know where he is, it is easy to make a bee line for him on subsequent run throughs once you handle the first big fight. I hate that guy so much that I bypass everything on that level after the initial fight to take him out first. On my first run through I faced about 5 or 6 sets of summons before I finally found him. Was just about out of healing spells (which is probably the point of that guy summoning so much).[/QUOTE]

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:27 pm

I gave up using Haste because of the Fatigue. It is really annoying

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:40 am

Haste is indeed a fatigue-causing spell, even if it is dispelled before the duration runs out. It is useful at the end of a level or in extremely tough fights, not so much in prolonged fights or as a general buff spell.

After the fight at the entrance, your first move should be after the High Summoner. It does indeed summon more monsters even if the first ones are still alive. That is why it is imperative to take out the summoner ASAP.

One excellent use of haste is not on yourself, but on summons. A pack of hasted elementals is doom to almost anything that isn't immune to their attacks.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:54 am

Also, find the adventurers locked in a room to the north of the entrance. They can at least distract the yuan-ti.

As for haste, I think the benefits outweigh the negative aspects. At the least it helps you retreat faster.

Unfortunately Haste does fatigue after the first use unlike BG where it can be used twice before the fatigue sets in.
Just try to rest in a safe location (or as safe as possible anyway) so that you can recover from the fatigue.

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:20 am

Hasted Summons - ooh, nice!

Hey, thanks for the advice on hasting summons. I didn't know you could cast haste on summoned creatures. I wonder if you can haste the captive advernturers in this level. They kick ass without haste but they would be freakin' Matrix-like warriors with Haste.

[QUOTE=Aerich]Haste is indeed a fatigue-causing spell, even if it is dispelled before the duration runs out. It is useful at the end of a level or in extremely tough fights, not so much in prolonged fights or as a general buff spell.

After the fight at the entrance, your first move should be after the High Summoner. It does indeed summon more monsters even if the first ones are still alive. That is why it is imperative to take out the summoner ASAP.

One excellent use of haste is not on yourself, but on summons. A pack of hasted elementals is doom to almost anything that isn't immune to their attacks.

[/QUOTE]

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:29 pm

Thanks for the correction Aerich,

It does indeed summon more monsters even if the first ones are still alive. That is why it is imperative to take out the summoner ASAP.

I couldn't remember for certain about that scut. Been a while since I had a party in Dragon's Eye. He's always my first target after the first fight with the "Eldathans". I just turn immediately and avoid the Ritualist until afterwards. Good tip too on using haste on summons.

Bariumdose, I also try to avoid the adventurers till after I clean the level because if they strike the killing blow on any of the bad guys I don't get the experience, even if I do 90% of the damage. Summons are different, you still get the experience since the "belong" to your party.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:59 pm

I have only released the adventurers once, and I've never done it since and never will do it again. Here's why:

1) They steal XP, as Philos noted already
2) If you hit one of them with any damage spell, they all turn hostile; mass fights on this level, especially with the HoW call-to-arms, absolutely rely on area-effect spells, so I'd rather not limit my ability to cast AoE anywhere I want without repercussions
3) It's too awkward to get to them, considering the optimum targets on the level; they are across the level from the summoner. If you initiate combat with Albion, you might as well go east after the summoner instead of west after the adventurers.

-----------------

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to haste the adventurers; they are allies, even if you don't control them.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:55 am

I released the four adventurers in my solo druid HoF game and just followed them around killing monsters. Although we didn't run for the high summoner we were able to kill the monsters far faster than he summoned, so there is no special strategy needed other than killing until there is nothing more to kill anymore.
The summoned monsters are weak anyway.

I only used haste before resting in my party game, it always lasted long enough since my bard leveled fast.

Haste can also be cast on summons.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:26 pm

kmonster, I can see how that would be a big help if you're soloing. And solo characters do level quickly so losing some XP isn't as bad then. But still hate to lose it though. Like Aerich, the only time I've freed the adventurers to fight was with the first party I took through. I was wandering around just trying to find that blasted Summoner and came across them first. Fortunately, I didn't have them go hostile on me.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:19 pm

There are many opportunities to gain endless experience, so the few missing XP won't matter.

About haste: The little fatigue penalty isn't really that bad compared to the extra attacks gained before. You can even haste your tired party members again.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:02 pm

Missing out on XP is more a matter of principle than a reflection of how much extra you can gather.

Don't forget that you get additional XP for talking to Albion with a paladin, which triggers the attacks. Going straight for the adventurers means you either a) lose out on the dialogue XP or b) have a running fight all the way to the adventurers' room, or c) have to wait until you hammer down the first onrush all by yourself, after which you might as well go after the summoner.

If you can clear the level without the adventurers, why not do it? "Unlimited" xp can be had on this level if you just avoid killing the summoner, but it's really not worth it.

The fatigue penalty for Haste isn't too bad, true. However, what really hurts is the penalty to movement. If you don't have another Haste spell handy, you're slow as molasses. I never seem to have enough third level mage spells, so I'd rather not spend two slots on Haste. I've been playing at high (the highest) difficulty levels lately, so additional attacks aren't quite so dominant. If I use Haste at all, it is as the last spell before resting, a buff before a major fight (e.g. Tiers, entrance to Lower Dorn's), or a potent enhancer for my summons.