I think instead of changing the user's alignment the effect for carsomyr being used by an evil thief should be more like this (just in straight rp terms, no way to implement in the game i'm sure)
The sword would betray it's user:
cast "dispel magic" on the thief during battle and dispel the protections or invisibility the thief has.
slip out of the thief's hands right at the wrong moment
miss the intended target of a blow and instead hit one of the thief's evil companions or the thief himself, again dispelling protections.
get stuck in the scabbard right when the battle starts
miss the target of a blow and get stuck in a wall or the floor, unable to be removed
get stuck to the theif's hands, only able to be removed with magic like remove curse
etc. I especially feel that this type of behavior is appropriate for Carsomyr, the sword is supposed to be the holiest relic around, after all. I don't think that an item that powerful could exist without having a will of its own.
Ring of Gaxx: role-playing issues
I think that an evil thief would delight at the chance to blaspheme all the Holy Avenger stands for, and use it against forces of good. In no way would the aura of a good item matter to an evil user, thus affecting their alignment. I also don't believe that a sword can perform actions on its own (veering into a pilar, getting stuck), but it may not be totally unrealistic for the sword's magic not to assist an evil wielder (acts as an ordinary two handed sword).
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Silvanerian
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I think it's a great idea.
Especially about the evil things; it says in the description of ring of gaxx that it radiates imence evil.
Now, how I see it is that only good aligned should suffer from wielding these items (robe of V, Ring of G, Blackrazer, ect.) and especially Paladins and Rangers.
These characters are the bane of all evil (especially Paladins) and should frown at using these items.
I think they should emidiately become fallen if they use the items but not evil. That should happen if they continually use the items.
If they "only" become fallen it would be great if there were a way for them to restore their faiths. A quest of restoration of sorts.
I can't se how wielding these items by a neutral character would by unapropriate. They are neither forces of evil or good, so using an evil item is allright if they spend all day destroying evil. (and in this game imo you can't really roleplay neutral - it's always "kill the thieves - kill the vampires - kill Irenicus, save the elves ect ect - there's no middleway.
True neutral should never allowing either side (good and evil) to become too powerful.
(well, I suppose you could destroy the Order in Athkatla, but that doesn't make much sence. You can't complete the storyline not destroying a lot of evil)
Also, as a paladin or Ranger (or any Good) you sholud get experience for (as the items are probably indestructable) returning the evil items at the Order of the priests of Oghma or Lathander - so they can take "proper care" of the items. And maybe they could free the souls of the ring or whatever.
The souls could then reward the player with an item or experience or something the like. (to even the odds a bit (for "the regular player")
About the holy Avengers: I don't think using these items by an evil thief would "turn" them to do good. No way. So instead of an alignment change to good, it would be much better if they simple couldn't lift the items from the ground (ie can't use them in combat)
Although I like the idea about the swords not benefiting (hurting) the thief if used in combat alot. (to simplify the scripting: maybe a dispel magic 20% on the thief of a succelful hit at an opponent and 100% in the opponent is good aligned. Also a 10% chance of 1D12 +5 damage to thief (the weapons damage) on succelful hit and 25% in the opponemt is good (+10 if th ethief is CE)
Just my thoughts.
-Sylvanerian
Especially about the evil things; it says in the description of ring of gaxx that it radiates imence evil.
Now, how I see it is that only good aligned should suffer from wielding these items (robe of V, Ring of G, Blackrazer, ect.) and especially Paladins and Rangers.
These characters are the bane of all evil (especially Paladins) and should frown at using these items.
I think they should emidiately become fallen if they use the items but not evil. That should happen if they continually use the items.
If they "only" become fallen it would be great if there were a way for them to restore their faiths. A quest of restoration of sorts.
I can't se how wielding these items by a neutral character would by unapropriate. They are neither forces of evil or good, so using an evil item is allright if they spend all day destroying evil. (and in this game imo you can't really roleplay neutral - it's always "kill the thieves - kill the vampires - kill Irenicus, save the elves ect ect - there's no middleway.
True neutral should never allowing either side (good and evil) to become too powerful.
(well, I suppose you could destroy the Order in Athkatla, but that doesn't make much sence. You can't complete the storyline not destroying a lot of evil)
Also, as a paladin or Ranger (or any Good) you sholud get experience for (as the items are probably indestructable) returning the evil items at the Order of the priests of Oghma or Lathander - so they can take "proper care" of the items. And maybe they could free the souls of the ring or whatever.
The souls could then reward the player with an item or experience or something the like. (to even the odds a bit (for "the regular player")
About the holy Avengers: I don't think using these items by an evil thief would "turn" them to do good. No way. So instead of an alignment change to good, it would be much better if they simple couldn't lift the items from the ground (ie can't use them in combat)
Although I like the idea about the swords not benefiting (hurting) the thief if used in combat alot. (to simplify the scripting: maybe a dispel magic 20% on the thief of a succelful hit at an opponent and 100% in the opponent is good aligned. Also a 10% chance of 1D12 +5 damage to thief (the weapons damage) on succelful hit and 25% in the opponemt is good (+10 if th ethief is CE)
Just my thoughts.
-Sylvanerian
Qualis Artefix Pereo
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Silvanerian
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- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 10:00 pm
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Nice thread! 
I'm not too sure using the "evil" items means you are acting evil, or vice versa. As JAKER says, a Thief could delight in using Carsomyr. I guess this varies from one person to the next.
I don't see what Law and Chaos have to do with these issues. Chaotic Evil is no more evil than Lawful Evil.
Blackrazor and the Ring of Gaxx radiate "almost palpable" evil. That's not something you see every day, so in a PnP campaign this would be more than just a bit of description.
As for Carsomyr... Don't sentient weapons in PnP cause damage to those of wrong alignment that wield them?
I'm not too sure using the "evil" items means you are acting evil, or vice versa. As JAKER says, a Thief could delight in using Carsomyr. I guess this varies from one person to the next.
I don't see what Law and Chaos have to do with these issues. Chaotic Evil is no more evil than Lawful Evil.
Blackrazor and the Ring of Gaxx radiate "almost palpable" evil. That's not something you see every day, so in a PnP campaign this would be more than just a bit of description.
As for Carsomyr... Don't sentient weapons in PnP cause damage to those of wrong alignment that wield them?
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
Just a few comments on sentient items:
I disagree that Carsomyr is sentient. There is one sentient item in the game, Lilarcor, and it doesn't care if you're good or evil, as long as you kill, kill, kill.
For those who have read R.A. Salvatore...now, certainly, literature, even from Wizards of the Coast, takes liberties with strict PnP rules, but...
There are many powerful magic items in the Drizzt series. Crenshinibon, which is featured in the game Icewind Dale, is an evil, sentient artifact that contains the souls of seven dead liches. Crenshinibon, or the Crystal Shard, is as powerful and evil and as avaricious an artifact as there is. Surely, using the Shard would compel the wielder to do evil acts.
However, that is not the case with Cattie-Brie's sentient sword. It was taken from a drow weaponmaster Drizzt defeated in battle. It has a strong will of its own, but Cattie-Brie won out in a battle of wills and the sword is undeniably hers. Similarly, Artemis Entreri owns a powerful sword, but it has no inherent weal, it doesn't care if Entreri is evil or that he is shifting toward neutrality, merely that it is a capable owner.
Maybe these items are not as powerful as Carsomyr, but Aegis-fang surely is. It is the most powerful of dwarven weapons, engraved with the runes of two dwarven gods, made specifically for one wielder.
****BOOK SPOILER*****
I don't want to spoil anyone who hasn't read Sea of Swords yet, so...
When Wulfgar loses Aegis-fang, it is sold to a band of pirates. Apparently, as powerful as it is, as honed in as it is to one particular person, others can wield it, even evil creatures, although Wulfgar is able to call the hammer to him -- its rightful owner -- in the middle of a battle.
As far as the Robe of Vecna, it might exude evil, and there might be some evil residue oozing out of it, but that is something different than the Eye or Hand of Vecna, which are joined with the user's body,much like the claw of kazgoroth in BG.
I disagree that Carsomyr is sentient. There is one sentient item in the game, Lilarcor, and it doesn't care if you're good or evil, as long as you kill, kill, kill.
For those who have read R.A. Salvatore...now, certainly, literature, even from Wizards of the Coast, takes liberties with strict PnP rules, but...
There are many powerful magic items in the Drizzt series. Crenshinibon, which is featured in the game Icewind Dale, is an evil, sentient artifact that contains the souls of seven dead liches. Crenshinibon, or the Crystal Shard, is as powerful and evil and as avaricious an artifact as there is. Surely, using the Shard would compel the wielder to do evil acts.
However, that is not the case with Cattie-Brie's sentient sword. It was taken from a drow weaponmaster Drizzt defeated in battle. It has a strong will of its own, but Cattie-Brie won out in a battle of wills and the sword is undeniably hers. Similarly, Artemis Entreri owns a powerful sword, but it has no inherent weal, it doesn't care if Entreri is evil or that he is shifting toward neutrality, merely that it is a capable owner.
Maybe these items are not as powerful as Carsomyr, but Aegis-fang surely is. It is the most powerful of dwarven weapons, engraved with the runes of two dwarven gods, made specifically for one wielder.
****BOOK SPOILER*****
I don't want to spoil anyone who hasn't read Sea of Swords yet, so...
When Wulfgar loses Aegis-fang, it is sold to a band of pirates. Apparently, as powerful as it is, as honed in as it is to one particular person, others can wield it, even evil creatures, although Wulfgar is able to call the hammer to him -- its rightful owner -- in the middle of a battle.
As far as the Robe of Vecna, it might exude evil, and there might be some evil residue oozing out of it, but that is something different than the Eye or Hand of Vecna, which are joined with the user's body,much like the claw of kazgoroth in BG.