Lowest AC?

Andrinor · Post by **Andrinor** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:47 am

What's the record out there as far as lowest AC? I've got Korgan's down to -17, (-19 with enrage) but I'm wondering if I'm approaching the limit.

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:52 am

Mage/thief- Use any item-
Best armor
Best shield
Best equip.
Defender scimitar
Blur
blur
blur.
..
..
..
maybe -30 ac

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 1:02 am

I suspect you are approaching a limit. I seem to recall that about the best you could do for a basic (non-buffed) AC was about -20 or so....and Viconia got the honors (use Lum's Machine to raise her Dex to 20). I forget exactly how I did it, but it was something like this (-19 ), Drow Plate +5, Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Earth Elemental Control, Robe of the Sewers, Helmet of Balduran, Large Sheild +5 (I think this was a Drow item too), and a Dex of 20.

If you buff your characters with potions and/or abilities, you can get lower (about -30 or so for blades), but there is that brings up a second point:

You reach a point of diminishing returns with ultra-low AC. The tough monsters in ToB typically have THACOs of -15 or even less (and the fighter types in YOUR party also have the same insanely low THACOs). As such, the ultralow AC isn't much use against bosses. It also isn't much help (vs ACs in the low negatives...say -5 or so) vs mooks because your 'mook' will need a natural 20 to hit you regardless....and the extra AC is meaningless. Finally in order to get that AC, you find you are sacrificing other abilities (like a second weapon or the great T-H weapons). In short, I find most tanks in ToB have ACs between -5 and -12 depending on style (and both are equally sucessful).

-Polaris

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 2:57 am

If some boss has THAC0 -15, and you have AC -30, that means he has to roll 15 or higher to hit you. If you "only" had AC -10, he would hit you all the time. I'd call that a reasonable investment.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:03 am

Reasonable as compared with what? The only way you get the -30 AC is with special (and short lasting) abilities (like the Blade's Defensive Spin). When battles last a long time, and both sides get many attacks (as much as ten) per round, I think you find that immunities (like stoneskin) and hit points matter far more than straight AC.

Don't get me wrong, the lower your AC is the better, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

-Polaris

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:07 am

The blur spell last for a very long time, and after that you can cast a minor wish, form your projected image, or from yourself to get the blurs back.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:32 am

Blur does last a while (though one combat typically), but it does not last all day. When I talk about how useful AC is, I think it would be best if we stuck to BASE AC. After all, you only get so many blur spells (or mirror images) in a day and they don't last long enough to keep them on you continously. [Armor and Stoneskin spells are another matter. Those you CAN keep on all day and I consider to be part of your 'base' protection.]

Another reason I think it is best to stick with talking about 'base' protection when talking about AC is that base protection can not be taken away with a dispell magic. If you don't think that isn't important, then you haven't seen Keldorn squish spell casters using dispell magic

-Polaris

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 7:26 am

If you read Two's 'No Deaths, No Reloads' thread, you'll see that running around with Blur all the time isn't too far-fetched. Blur may not stack anymore if you play the legit way, but Improved Invisibility (with patch) gives -4 AC as well.

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 9:53 am

The lowest Base AC allowed is -24 IIRC. It can go down lower temporarily with the help of spells. I have seen very high level swashbuclers get down that far and my kensai/thief is at -18 or so without a shield. Both of those characters can also use scrolls of Stoneskin/blur/improved invisibility or whatever at high levels.

The fallen one · Post by **The fallen one** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 10:20 am

I only have my charcters in between -5 to -10 . I have to say that I have not even tried to bring down the party AC any lower then that. Polaris has some good points. You would not be able to use the two handed swords and get some of there ablity when using them. I found that a very important thing with my playing style to be-able to have those ablity to last longer in a fight. But to all those that have low Ac and like them all the power to you it probaly works with your playing style.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:36 pm

Swashy -9
Dex(21)-5
S.Dragon armor -2
Evasion -4
Greater evasion -6
Drow sheild -5(right?)
Gaxx ring -2
Gaxx ring -2
Belt of internal (does somthing)
Helm of balduron -1
Amu of power -1
Defender -2
So what does that mean

[ 08-05-2001: Message edited by: craig ]

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 1:30 pm

Originally posted by craig:
<STRONG>Gaxx ring -2
Gaxx ring -2</STRONG>

What's that smell..?

But seriously, Drizzt's Defender +5 gives -2 to AC. And a level 40 Swashbuckler gets, what, -9? And you could still use the Ring of Earth Control.

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 2:07 pm

My swash had an ac of -21 without a shield. Nothing ever hit him, unfortunatly he never hit anything either. Dumb swash. I PITTY THE FOOL WHO PLAYS THE SWASH!

KillerKid · Post by **KillerKid** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:23 pm

i think having super low ac is more of a playing style if you tend to play with alot of attackers you worry more about attacking meaning duel weilding usually instead of somehting and shield but when the player goes toward magic i would go with having alot of -ac stuff because that is yur defense not your power

Alzar · Post by **Alzar** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:31 pm

theres a sword you can create with the console that has -35AC.