I've been playing this game with a brujah, a tremere and currently with my malk. I've noticed that it's very hard to play with characters that doesn't have passive disciplines which grants a boost on the character, for example the brujah's potence or the malk's auspex.
The rest of the discplines are simply crap, especially with the malkavian, since I'm deteced while using obfuscate - which is my strongest skill - and my various levels of dementation won't harm the non-humans much, so it's just a waste of blood.
So what is my strategy with this malk I'm playing? Well, since I completely rocked with my brujah, (celerity + potence = unstoppable), using melee weapons only, I wanted to try some firearms this time. All I do now with my malk - which isn't as fun as it could be if the disciplines worked as intended - is to simply kite, kite and kite, while stacking auspex to infinite.
This doesn't feel fun though, since I'm only using one of my three disciplines most of the time while I'm playing. I wish the different levels of dementation could have a greater effect on non-humans, and I also wish that obfuscate should work against every enemy, and not just humans.
So my playing style is now based on saving bullets - and using obfuscate to further save bullets, and while I'm fighting non-humans, I'll kite and... try to save bullets. It's okay, but I remember that I had so much more fun with my brujah, when I could use all of my disciplines, but also didn't have to care about saving bullets or something.
My gaming experience with the tremere was that the disciplines totally sucked. Thaumaturgy - along with dominate - is some crappy disciplines that also needs to get buffed against non-humans.
Why I'm writing this, is because I hope that this will reach those that works with the unofficial patches one day. Feedback is always nice. What I suggest is that the disciplines should be improved against non-humans, since I feel extremely gimped in certain situations. The cost of bullets should also be lowered, and I'm not saying 50%, but maybe 25% - or make the haggle feat more useful, for example, being allowed to rob people or something like that. That would be an interesting change, especially for those that having a hard time getting money for bullets.
Thanks for reading.
Take care,
Dan
My opinion on disciplines against non-humans + changes
I agree with you dude, I played a Brujah once and it was very good vs kindred and kine. (And it was fun too). Now playing a Tremere I see that dominate and thaumaturgy aren't real effective against supernaturals (Still it ownz kine).
But you know that Vampire Bloodlines is a game full of kine... and almost all the time you're facing them.. and there's nothing better than 'blood boil' or 'purge' to beat them... and kine aren't as easy to kill with brujah as it is with Tremere, so every clan has it bad and good points.
BTW, I'm actually at Society of Leopold with my Tremere, and I had no problem beating even kindreds... (blood salvo can be very useful...). Yeah, I know brujah is better to take kindred down, but the Tremere aren't useless... and disciplines aren't everything... you can use different tatics with different clans.. for example, when you face Andrei (kindred) for the first time (at King's Way) with a Brujah I just used celerity and started shooting or punchin' him... those weird critters couldn't catch me ( I refer to those two-legged and flesh-made critter) ... but when I fought vs him with a Tremere, I used one trick that I've learned , which is stand on a table, so those critters can't catch you, and you just have to shoot Andrei 'till he drops.
On other hand, when I was at Golden Temple, (quest Ming Must Die) I had some trouble to kill all those chinamen (kine) with a Brujah, since they just appeared all the time from nowhere! But I'm sure with Tremere I'll have less trouble, and consequently I'll save more bullets than I did with my Brujah, so Ming will die more easily! (I had to use braddock vs ming .. I was really lacking bullets)
I hope you got my point
But you know that Vampire Bloodlines is a game full of kine... and almost all the time you're facing them.. and there's nothing better than 'blood boil' or 'purge' to beat them... and kine aren't as easy to kill with brujah as it is with Tremere, so every clan has it bad and good points.
BTW, I'm actually at Society of Leopold with my Tremere, and I had no problem beating even kindreds... (blood salvo can be very useful...). Yeah, I know brujah is better to take kindred down, but the Tremere aren't useless... and disciplines aren't everything... you can use different tatics with different clans.. for example, when you face Andrei (kindred) for the first time (at King's Way) with a Brujah I just used celerity and started shooting or punchin' him... those weird critters couldn't catch me ( I refer to those two-legged and flesh-made critter) ... but when I fought vs him with a Tremere, I used one trick that I've learned , which is stand on a table, so those critters can't catch you, and you just have to shoot Andrei 'till he drops.
On other hand, when I was at Golden Temple, (quest Ming Must Die) I had some trouble to kill all those chinamen (kine) with a Brujah, since they just appeared all the time from nowhere! But I'm sure with Tremere I'll have less trouble, and consequently I'll save more bullets than I did with my Brujah, so Ming will die more easily! (I had to use braddock vs ming .. I was really lacking bullets)
I hope you got my point
"Feel my wrath!"
- Zeratul
- Zeratul
Brujah is in my opinion the best character in this game. Why? Well, celerity is with no doubt the best discipline. Potence is also a very good discipline, and compared with the RA blade, the damage output is insane. There is absolutely nothing anyone can do.
Overpowered or not, I still think that the rest of the discplines the clans has needs to get buffed. Right now, there's no real use for them in certain situations, and I accept that since we're facing various type of enemies, but there should atleast be some use of them. And if they're worthless 60% of the game, then something needs to be done.
As I mentioned, I played my brujah as pure melee fighter, and I didn't have a single problem at all. I didn't recieve any resistance at all during the Ming Must Die! quest. The enemies dropped like flies in one-three attacks, and it could have been taking ten or twenty hits for me to kill them, it wouldnt matter at all since they shouldn't be able to hit me. Rank 5 celerity is awesome.
I've just finished the game with my malkavian, and I'm kind of ímpressed since it only took me a couple of hours, and that's nothing but the truth. I'm thinking about making a Speed demo. That would be interesting.
Kindest regards
Dealon
Overpowered or not, I still think that the rest of the discplines the clans has needs to get buffed. Right now, there's no real use for them in certain situations, and I accept that since we're facing various type of enemies, but there should atleast be some use of them. And if they're worthless 60% of the game, then something needs to be done.
As I mentioned, I played my brujah as pure melee fighter, and I didn't have a single problem at all. I didn't recieve any resistance at all during the Ming Must Die! quest. The enemies dropped like flies in one-three attacks, and it could have been taking ten or twenty hits for me to kill them, it wouldnt matter at all since they shouldn't be able to hit me. Rank 5 celerity is awesome.
I've just finished the game with my malkavian, and I'm kind of ímpressed since it only took me a couple of hours, and that's nothing but the truth. I'm thinking about making a Speed demo. That would be interesting.
Kindest regards
Dealon
[QUOTE=Crumbly]Wel, I don't know.... I will agree that Malk without any passise disciple like potence or fortitude really sucks when it comes to heavy battle <like against Andrei> - but he is the supreme stealth killer - obfuscate +/or hysteria and you rock mon.
And the Tremere. Blood purge - works even against creepy crawlers - while enemies are vomiting blood they are vulnerable and the only thing is to finish them off. Blood shield gives you great protection - you are really hard to harm while this spell is active. Blood boil was really great thing in the end, because it was the only way to strike down behemoth.
By the way - how'd ya kill the big bad bat with Brujah?
BTW 2 - I wonder how La Croix was able to pull himself together after Blood Boil, cuz there was nothing left of him than few ribs and some blood :laugh:[/QUOTE]
I simply glocked the bat down with my brujah, no problem at all. The main task was to evade his attacks and keep bashing the enemies that spawned from time to time. I died at my first attempt though, since I didn't notice these vampires (?) and they gathered around me and killed me before I realized their intimite present.
I've just finished the game with my range-specced malk, and I killed the bat with my steyr-aug with probably 15-20 rounds. Steyr-aug is a nasty weapon if you zoom with it. My rounds hit for about 90 damage each! ;-)
And the Tremere. Blood purge - works even against creepy crawlers - while enemies are vomiting blood they are vulnerable and the only thing is to finish them off. Blood shield gives you great protection - you are really hard to harm while this spell is active. Blood boil was really great thing in the end, because it was the only way to strike down behemoth.
By the way - how'd ya kill the big bad bat with Brujah?
BTW 2 - I wonder how La Croix was able to pull himself together after Blood Boil, cuz there was nothing left of him than few ribs and some blood :laugh:[/QUOTE]
I simply glocked the bat down with my brujah, no problem at all. The main task was to evade his attacks and keep bashing the enemies that spawned from time to time. I died at my first attempt though, since I didn't notice these vampires (?) and they gathered around me and killed me before I realized their intimite present.
I've just finished the game with my range-specced malk, and I killed the bat with my steyr-aug with probably 15-20 rounds. Steyr-aug is a nasty weapon if you zoom with it. My rounds hit for about 90 damage each! ;-)
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MalaksBane
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I had some doubts about starting with a Malkavian because of this lack of buffing spells, ehrm, disciplines. Kine are of no consequence, beat them, slice them, dement them or feed, whatever, they are dead. But no celerity, fotitude or anything to increase your chance of surviving a fight with a supernatural. But it turned out all right.
Fights were harder, I remember taking on the Chang brothers head-on in the arena with my Toreador, while my Malk had to back off once in while and the second Andrei was rather difficult. There's always a winning tactic though, and the Malk's roleplay more then makes up for lesser combat power.
Part of your problem is in your choice of weapons, firearms just aren't usefull in the early and midgame, especially against supernaturals, just like you they are less vulnerable to gunfire. Your Malk would probably be better of with melee and brawl, at least until the real guns start to appear.
Fights were harder, I remember taking on the Chang brothers head-on in the arena with my Toreador, while my Malk had to back off once in while and the second Andrei was rather difficult. There's always a winning tactic though, and the Malk's roleplay more then makes up for lesser combat power.
Part of your problem is in your choice of weapons, firearms just aren't usefull in the early and midgame, especially against supernaturals, just like you they are less vulnerable to gunfire. Your Malk would probably be better of with melee and brawl, at least until the real guns start to appear.
--
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
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Crumbly
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:24 pm
- Location: A small ****hole called Poznan - well it is spelle
Pistols are clumsy - I chose Gangrel, Tremere and Nosferatu because of their ranged spells. There was no fighting with vampires on the roof - I simple bloodsucked them and used extra blood for our magilla gorilla. Gangrel rocks, and Nosferatu too
But with Tremere I had to use my katana and after dealing with warform vampires I used Blood Boil and it was taking even 150 damage from that flying mammal :laugh:
I don't like gunblazing style - I have my heart set on stealth kills, so I didn't pick Brujah, maybe I'll try and see for myself.
Sorry for my English, I know it really sucks
But with Tremere I had to use my katana and after dealing with warform vampires I used Blood Boil and it was taking even 150 damage from that flying mammal :laugh:
I don't like gunblazing style - I have my heart set on stealth kills, so I didn't pick Brujah, maybe I'll try and see for myself.
Sorry for my English, I know it really sucks
Actually, I didn't have a problem at all being range specced. The "problem" if we should call it that, was the lack of ammunition. While having rounds for my anaconda, there was nothing that could stop me, and when I got my hands on the steyr-aug, I became immortal.
I've also revealed a good tactic against the enemies that appears in the "scary movie" (can't remember the name of them). Anyway, if you crouch and head backwards, while shooting them, their charge attack won't touch you, and they'll get pushed backwards while spraying them. I could easily handle a fight with three or even four of them simultaneously while following this tactic.
I've also revealed a good tactic against the enemies that appears in the "scary movie" (can't remember the name of them). Anyway, if you crouch and head backwards, while shooting them, their charge attack won't touch you, and they'll get pushed backwards while spraying them. I could easily handle a fight with three or even four of them simultaneously while following this tactic.
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MalaksBane
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Ok, I'd call the Anaconda one of the real guns, and it appears in the late midgame (Hollywood I think). Ammo seems to be a problem, so I've read. I'd suggest sticking to unarmed, melee, disciplines and feeding when dealing with Kine, to save ammo. But perhaps you already do that.
But yeah, without buffing disciplines it's a lot harder. And bullets are too expensive. The game might suffer from the same problem you see for instance with NWN, way more critters to kill then in the PnP game, on which the rules are based.
But yeah, without buffing disciplines it's a lot harder. And bullets are too expensive. The game might suffer from the same problem you see for instance with NWN, way more critters to kill then in the PnP game, on which the rules are based.
--
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
bah
bah... I still don't agree with you guys
I had no trouble finishing the game with Tremere... even without using buffing disciplines... I used suicide in almost every supernatural I've found... in the called 'boss' enemies, I just used Blood Boil, which can take down strong enemies like the Sheriff real soon...
If you ask me which discipline is the best one I'll say it's celerity, but no big trouble if you don't have celerity (or buffing disciplines...)
I don't know... maybe it's my style
ps: sometimes I get bored while using celerity n5... the enemies take too much time to get up :laugh:
bah... I still don't agree with you guys
I had no trouble finishing the game with Tremere... even without using buffing disciplines... I used suicide in almost every supernatural I've found... in the called 'boss' enemies, I just used Blood Boil, which can take down strong enemies like the Sheriff real soon...
If you ask me which discipline is the best one I'll say it's celerity, but no big trouble if you don't have celerity (or buffing disciplines...)
I don't know... maybe it's my style
ps: sometimes I get bored while using celerity n5... the enemies take too much time to get up :laugh:
"Feel my wrath!"
- Zeratul
- Zeratul
Since noone else blacked out the text neither did I but there is a couple ofSPOILERS!
In my experience I would have to say that ALL the clans are fairly balanced to take on the full game (every little bit of it!)
obfuscate is a very usefull skill! Yes it does seem almost buggy against kindred but then again if you crawl you can actually get past them as long as they havnt seen you once before...
Anyhow obfuscate is awesome for any stealth missions alone that makes it very usefull. being able to stealth kill all kines you meet no matter what they are doing... hell they are talking with someone no problem you can still stealth kill them without getting noticed. oh and the triple dmg in invisble is usefull against the hunter boss^^
Auspex is just insane... any newbie would gain massivly from this by always knowing where the enemies are and then you dont have to waste much XP points for hacking as well. Also getting ranged up to 13 just makes your dmg insane... hell with 10 ranged you can do 188 dmg with the sniper riffle pro hit... even against nasty bosses like ming... of cause the flamethrower is still better against ming since it freezes her while you are burning her^^
dementation is NOT meant to be a weapon generally against kindred.. Its more of a persuasion tool to get people to do what you want them to. and btw persuasion is far superior to intimidate and Seduction... I would say dementation and the Ventures domination comes right after persuasion and before seduction and intimidate... anyway thats the catagory you should put those disiplines (though of cause both domination and dementation is usefull for feeding in puplic areas ^^)
Tremers can handle almost every single thing you have to fight against with purge alone.... enemies are stunted or simply blinded from where you are for a while and most of them cant move while you just hack on them with whatever... of cause bosses dont get stunned by it would just make the game to easy thats why they removed that though you still deal dmg! Oh and the bloodstrike might not deal lots of dmg but hell if you got 10 blood points and your little special item with extra 10 points you can do 20 bloodstrikes insanely fast even against bosses! heck you could go as far as thinking of blood bags as ammo
All clans depends on style to deal with situations. And of cause your skills! Its difficult to say if you are exploiting a bug some times because even tactics in battle can make the AI a bug.
For instance if you dont cut of mings arms she seems to be a lot easier to kick in melee if you find the right spot to stand really close to her. A lot of enemies including smaller bosses in melee tend to not be able to handle good old hit and back off to avoid attack, when attack avoided storm back in and attack and every thing seems like a loop untill they are dead, true for the stoneGolem as for the sherif before he transform
Those little nasty heads with arms for legs are probely the most bugged AI in the game since the almost only do jump attacks aiming for you head... crawl and they almost never hit you even when 6 are trying their best at once.
The big spider like two body monsters are also quite bugged... they dont like if you get behind them and start hitting them... they seem to get confused and attacks something infront of them instaid of you.
before I get to far of track I will have to agree with one thing though. celerity is the most powerfull disipline in combat sense.
Then I would say Auspex and fortidude come in... Give us a clan with those 3 skills and that will be the hell or a char^^ Well grandels warform with fortidude is quite good together as well though... can withstand an amazing amount of hits from ming if one concentrated on max resistance all around!
For some reason I have never really tested Presence and animalism to much... I guess animalism could have similar helpfull points like Thaumaturgy. At first presence seemed bugged and didnt work against kindred or bosses very well so I didnt really get into it...
In my experience I would have to say that ALL the clans are fairly balanced to take on the full game (every little bit of it!)
obfuscate is a very usefull skill! Yes it does seem almost buggy against kindred but then again if you crawl you can actually get past them as long as they havnt seen you once before...
Anyhow obfuscate is awesome for any stealth missions alone that makes it very usefull. being able to stealth kill all kines you meet no matter what they are doing... hell they are talking with someone no problem you can still stealth kill them without getting noticed. oh and the triple dmg in invisble is usefull against the hunter boss^^
Auspex is just insane... any newbie would gain massivly from this by always knowing where the enemies are and then you dont have to waste much XP points for hacking as well. Also getting ranged up to 13 just makes your dmg insane... hell with 10 ranged you can do 188 dmg with the sniper riffle pro hit... even against nasty bosses like ming... of cause the flamethrower is still better against ming since it freezes her while you are burning her^^
dementation is NOT meant to be a weapon generally against kindred.. Its more of a persuasion tool to get people to do what you want them to. and btw persuasion is far superior to intimidate and Seduction... I would say dementation and the Ventures domination comes right after persuasion and before seduction and intimidate... anyway thats the catagory you should put those disiplines (though of cause both domination and dementation is usefull for feeding in puplic areas ^^)
Tremers can handle almost every single thing you have to fight against with purge alone.... enemies are stunted or simply blinded from where you are for a while and most of them cant move while you just hack on them with whatever... of cause bosses dont get stunned by it would just make the game to easy thats why they removed that though you still deal dmg! Oh and the bloodstrike might not deal lots of dmg but hell if you got 10 blood points and your little special item with extra 10 points you can do 20 bloodstrikes insanely fast even against bosses! heck you could go as far as thinking of blood bags as ammo
All clans depends on style to deal with situations. And of cause your skills! Its difficult to say if you are exploiting a bug some times because even tactics in battle can make the AI a bug.
For instance if you dont cut of mings arms she seems to be a lot easier to kick in melee if you find the right spot to stand really close to her. A lot of enemies including smaller bosses in melee tend to not be able to handle good old hit and back off to avoid attack, when attack avoided storm back in and attack and every thing seems like a loop untill they are dead, true for the stoneGolem as for the sherif before he transform
Those little nasty heads with arms for legs are probely the most bugged AI in the game since the almost only do jump attacks aiming for you head... crawl and they almost never hit you even when 6 are trying their best at once.
The big spider like two body monsters are also quite bugged... they dont like if you get behind them and start hitting them... they seem to get confused and attacks something infront of them instaid of you.
before I get to far of track I will have to agree with one thing though. celerity is the most powerfull disipline in combat sense.
Then I would say Auspex and fortidude come in... Give us a clan with those 3 skills and that will be the hell or a char^^ Well grandels warform with fortidude is quite good together as well though... can withstand an amazing amount of hits from ming if one concentrated on max resistance all around!
For some reason I have never really tested Presence and animalism to much... I guess animalism could have similar helpfull points like Thaumaturgy. At first presence seemed bugged and didnt work against kindred or bosses very well so I didnt really get into it...
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pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Bear in mind the following:
This game is based off a role playing game and trys to keep as true to the original as possable. In the role playing game, the Malkavians list of Discplines are SHOCKINGLY potent!! Imagine a game thats heavy on politics and social interactions where you can be:
Totaly invisable.
Look like anyone you want.
Hear conversations happening 4 rooms away.
Read minds.
Send and steal thoughts.
Travle through the Astral plane.
Send anyone mad.
As you can imagine, annoying a Malkavian often ends up with you standing before the prince, screaming at him that you are covered in spiders and just want to die before they crawl over your eyes again while wearing a torn straight jacket and a tin foil hat.
The big issue is, how do you translate the kind of freedom and fear that creates into a computer game, where your options are limited by programing technology... But still keep things true to the table top game? You can't have Malkavians and Ventrue and Tremere just walking up to massive, potent bosses, looking them in the eye and saying: "Give me those weapons and then go report to your superiors that I was killed and everythin is normal, then forget these events ever took place"... That would kinda spoil the game. So they mixed up things a little and did the best job they could. I guess the key to using a Malkavian in the game is to up Obfuscate, up Stealth, sneak and stealth kill... Then against bosses pack on the Auspex and machine gun fire.
This game is based off a role playing game and trys to keep as true to the original as possable. In the role playing game, the Malkavians list of Discplines are SHOCKINGLY potent!! Imagine a game thats heavy on politics and social interactions where you can be:
Totaly invisable.
Look like anyone you want.
Hear conversations happening 4 rooms away.
Read minds.
Send and steal thoughts.
Travle through the Astral plane.
Send anyone mad.
As you can imagine, annoying a Malkavian often ends up with you standing before the prince, screaming at him that you are covered in spiders and just want to die before they crawl over your eyes again while wearing a torn straight jacket and a tin foil hat.
The big issue is, how do you translate the kind of freedom and fear that creates into a computer game, where your options are limited by programing technology... But still keep things true to the table top game? You can't have Malkavians and Ventrue and Tremere just walking up to massive, potent bosses, looking them in the eye and saying: "Give me those weapons and then go report to your superiors that I was killed and everythin is normal, then forget these events ever took place"... That would kinda spoil the game. So they mixed up things a little and did the best job they could. I guess the key to using a Malkavian in the game is to up Obfuscate, up Stealth, sneak and stealth kill... Then against bosses pack on the Auspex and machine gun fire.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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Crumbly
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:24 pm
- Location: A small ****hole called Poznan - well it is spelle
Don't think about Dementation and Dominate as some persuasion disciplines, they are powerfull stealth kill tool - they are also almost the same, especialy basic disciplines - hysteria and trance. If you cast it on any kine or kindred, you can easily approach and perform stealth kill, no mather if you are standing in front of your victim. So it is really helpfull :mischief:
Animalism is great against Kindred and Kine - and of course pooftahs from People Republic of China, Mao Tse Tung descendants or whatever you like to call it
Bloodsuckers' communion is a powerfull projectile - gostly bats are attacking victim, suckin' all blood they can, and if you kill your opponent, then the bats will deliver you some extra blood, so if you use it well, you dont have to waste any bloodpacks.
But it doesnt work against creepy sewer crawlers and othey tuff guys.
Animalism is great against Kindred and Kine - and of course pooftahs from People Republic of China, Mao Tse Tung descendants or whatever you like to call it
Bloodsuckers' communion is a powerfull projectile - gostly bats are attacking victim, suckin' all blood they can, and if you kill your opponent, then the bats will deliver you some extra blood, so if you use it well, you dont have to waste any bloodpacks.
But it doesnt work against creepy sewer crawlers and othey tuff guys.
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MalaksBane
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:13 pm
- Contact:
[QUOTE=pennypincher]Bear in mind the following:
.... In the role playing game, the Malkavians list of Discplines are SHOCKINGLY potent!! Imagine a game thats heavy on politics and social interactions where you can be:
Totaly invisable.
Look like anyone you want.
Hear conversations happening 4 rooms away.
Read minds.
Send and steal thoughts.
Travle through the Astral plane.
Send anyone mad.
[/quote]
We wantsss it! I Wonder if we can find a VtM MUSH somewhere were our Malkavian can do all those things.
.... In the role playing game, the Malkavians list of Discplines are SHOCKINGLY potent!! Imagine a game thats heavy on politics and social interactions where you can be:
Totaly invisable.
Look like anyone you want.
Hear conversations happening 4 rooms away.
Read minds.
Send and steal thoughts.
Travle through the Astral plane.
Send anyone mad.
[/quote]
We wantsss it! I Wonder if we can find a VtM MUSH somewhere were our Malkavian can do all those things.
--
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."