Another run. Would you guys help me build a party to remember?

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:25 pm

Be warned, this thread is spoilerish.

That said, I can start.

OK. Its been the record time I've kept myself from playing BG. I want to play it from SoA beggining to the end of ToB. Yes. With mods. Tactics, Ascension, Redemtion, every thing to make my gameplay more likely to make me angry.

So:

I want to play a neutral party. That means do gooders and evil aligned characters. I want two of them to be real death machines, and my PC to be weak, I want Sarevok in ToB and Irenicus on the final match. Maybe even his sister, if possible.

Suggestions for the party? Equipment? NPC mods?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:36 pm

Korgan, pretty obviously. You might try the Chloe mod: that demi-god is pretty nasty.

CaptRory · Post by **CaptRory** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:04 pm

I've never been disappointed with Aerie, Jan Jansen, and Viconia. For sheer personality putting all three in one group with a male PC is great and you'll have oodles of spell casting.

Lasher · Post by **Lasher** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:49 pm

For me, the funnest one I've done was my PC- a kensai, imoen and sarevok... and after my first battle in Irenicus' dungeoun, I threw in two fighter mages for kicks. Actually, this was the only party i was ever able to complete the "run" with... good luck.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:58 am

[QUOTE=CaptRory]I've never been disappointed with Aerie, Jan Jansen, and Viconia. For sheer personality putting all three in one group with a male PC is great and you'll have oodles of spell casting.[/QUOTE]

Aerie's out. He wants a neutral-to-evil party.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:30 am

[QUOTE=fable]Aerie's out. He wants a neutral-to-evil party.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Luis Antonio]
I want to play a neutral party. That means do gooders and evil aligned characters.[/QUOTE]

tsk tsk.

I take it you want total power. I don't know what those mods are like, and what the characters can do, but IMHO a fighter/mage is one of the best combos out there, so I suggest either you play one (or a ftr/illusionist or the kensai/mage dual after fighter 13), or just add a mod that has one (Soloufein or something like that). Oh wait, you want the PC to be weak. What does that mean though? Do you want a beastmaster and suck, or do you want a physically weak character who is mighty (a sorcerer for example)? I'd suggest something in between: a Wild Mage. They're powerful, unpredictable, and a whole lot of fun!

As for NPCs, the most powerful in game ones I know of are (IMHO of course) Imoen (if you don't want a full thief), Keldorn, Anomen, Korgan. Of course, Sarevok fills the same role as Korgan, but is better (assuming those are the proficiencies you like).

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:51 am

[QUOTE=krunchyfrogg]tsk tsk.

[/quote]

It's best not to be a smartass when you haven't got the backup.

He wrote, "I want to play a neutral party. That means do gooders and evil aligned characters," which can be seen as confusing, since the second statement contradicts the first. Then he mentions including Irenicus in his party. That would lead anybody to think he might mean neutral and evil.

If you want only neutral clout, Luis, then Chloe still fits right in. So does Jan, who starts off weak, but becomes a powerhouse in ToB. I've yet to encounter a powerhouse druid, however. Has anyone really tried to ramp up either of the native treehuggers in the add-on, and analyze them against the other heavy hitters?

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:49 pm

Here we go again with that confusing D&D alignment system. I think Luis is using the "balanced" definition of "neutral": "Sometimes I do good things, sometimes I do evil things; some of my party members are Good, and some of them are Evil. I just want to keep it 'balanced', because I'm crazy." If Luis says he wants a Neutral party with Good and Evil characters, I don't see a problem with it. Maybe he thinks the inevitable in-party conflicts are fun. At least he has given some thought to alignment instead of ignoring it for the sake of power-gaming,

I'm not sure what would fit Luis's definition of "memorable". The famous incident with Yoshimo was quite shocking originally, but it has lost most of its impact after all these years. The in-game bantering and bickering might help to make a game memorable, but if you expect too much from it, you might be disappointed. Choosing characters who have unique abilities might create some memorable moments. For example, if you've never had a Sorcerer who shape-changed into a Mindflayer and sucked out your enemies' brains, playing a new game with such a character might be memorable. I still remember a bunch of "priceless moments" from my games. For example, in one of my games, Minsc accepted the Drow pit battle challenge, and he struck his opponent with a 60-point critical hit on the first attack. He also killed Firkraag with the Silver Sword on the first hit before I had a chance to do anything else. Edwin's Nether Scroll subquest is very entertaining if you haven't exhausted its humor already. But I don't know if we can predict what will be "memorable" with any accuracy. So I would like to hear some more specific requirements from Luis.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:17 pm

Von, I want a party with conflicts, so that when i'm in the middle of the Tactics underground, hearing the drows buffing themselves up with spells, Korgan will fight someone in the party, and someone dies, or someone leaves, and I'll be with one less party member to kill that drow army ahead, I want a game to say "damn, that was tough".

And yes, I want to make my party neutral not in the D&D neutrality way, but balancing both good and evil (maybe neutral) characters so that I'll not be able to righteously have 20 rep nor being a vile childslayer.

Korgan is a good start, Fable, I was thinking about him myself. Maybe Korgy, Jan, and PC as a start - I will leave Jan in exchange for Sarevok at ToB. Yes, not Korgy, but Jan - to make things interesting.

Any other suggestions?

What should I expect from Chloe? I've been told before she's cheesy (25 dexterity aye?) but I never played her mod (I used to like Soula, an old favourite on the boards).

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:54 pm

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]And yes, I want to make my party neutral not in the D&D neutrality way, but balancing both good and evil (maybe neutral) characters so that I'll not be able to righteously have 20 rep nor being a vile childslayer.[/quote]

Works for me.

There just seemed to be a contradiction, but I see now what you mean.

What should I expect from Chloe? I've been told before she's cheesy (25 dexterity aye?) but I never played her mod (I used to like Soula, an old favourite on the boards).

I responded with Chloe, because I assumed you wanted a party with many death machines--my bad, if I misunderstood that. Chloe is definitely cheese, which is why I dumped her from the only party I used her in. But if you're looking to counterbalance weakness in the PC with a bunch of super-tanks, Chloe is one possibility.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:10 pm

[QUOTE=fable]It's best not to be a smartass when you haven't got the backup.

He wrote, "I want to play a neutral party. That means do gooders and evil aligned characters," which can be seen as confusing, since the second statement contradicts the first. Then he mentions including Irenicus in his party. That would lead anybody to think he might mean neutral and evil.
[/QUOTE]

Unless you just read what he wrote.

Besides, I go backup man! ::turns around:: ... guys...?

LOL, just ribbin' ya Fable and having some fun. That's what this is all about, aye?

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:52 am

If it is conflict you want, Luis, then just pick the NPC's that are bound to annoy each other and start from there.
Keldorn-Viconia
Minsc/Valygar-Edwin
Aerie-Korgan
Then again, I doubt a party that starts with six members and ends around three is memorable.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:32 am

[QUOTE=krunchyfrogg]Unless you just read what he wrote.

Besides, I go backup man! ::turns around:: ... guys...?

LOL, just ribbin' ya Fable and having some fun. That's what this is all about, aye?[/QUOTE]

Right. And I chose to do this rather than take five-to-ten in the state penn. Bad choices, I know...

Luis, you know, that mod that prevents party NPCs from leaving because of interparty disputes doesn't actually stop the disputes. So you could do as Sytze suggests, and run the mod--keeping both party members and their occasionally violent disagreements. If that's what you want.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:27 pm

Watching characters who don't get along isn't really my idea of fun if all they do is insult each other and try to kill each other. For one thing, it seems forced, because it isn't logical to put such characters together. I think it is much more interesting, for example, to watch two characters "fight" over something they both want, such as Jan and Minsc, who both want Boo.

If you want unpredictability, one of your characters could be a Wild Mage. If you don't want to make your main character a Wild Mage, you could edit one of the NPCs, such as Jan. I sometimes make him a single-class Illusionist so that no one can call him a "second-string Mage", and the Wild Mage kit would definitely suit his personality. If you could find a way to add a Turnip Golem to the game, I think you would really be on to something.

To reiterate the point I made earlier, I think that doing memorable things is better than trying to listen to memorable dialogue. I've been playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and it is interesting to compare it to the Baldur's Gate series. On the one hand, GTA:SA is not really a roleplaying game because you have no control over the dialogue or the main character's path in life; but on the other hand, the game engine allows you to do almost anything inside the virtual world. This has resulted in some of the funniest things I have ever seen in a game. For example, the main character "CJ" once took his girlfriend on a date to a fast food restaurant in the 'hood, which is funny in itself. As he was driving to the restaurant, he accidentally bumped into someone else's car. The driver of that car pursued him, repeatedly ramming his car. When CJ and his girlfriend arrived at the restaurant and got out of the car, the other driver continued to accost them. So I had CJ take a shot at the other driver's head (the game keeps a running count of headshots, tires you shoot out, etc.). But instead of hitting the other driver's head, I hit the car's gas tank, and it exploded, setting off a chain reaction and making several other cars blow up as well. As that was happening, by sheer coincidence the game AI asked me if I wanted CJ to kiss his girlfriend, so I had them kiss while a bunch of cars were blowing up right behind them. It was truly a magical moment. On a sidenote, GTA:SA is the first game I've ever played that makes it fun to play a Chaotic Evil character, and that also makes the game more memorable.

To make BG2 equally memorable, you might try to stage memorable battles. The MODs you have chosen should help with that. Since I already know the "script" after playing the game several times, I treat the game like a play, and my goal is to have a perfect "performance" where everything goes just right. But I like taking chances to make things more interesting, such as trying to use creative battle strategies.

In addition to battle strategies, my roleplaying style also helps to make my games more memorable. Instead of playing a simple powerhouse character who kills monsters to win the game, I put some thought into my character and give her a personality and goals and desires. I choose an "angle" and stick with it. For example, when I play Throne of Bhaal, I try to "solo" the main battles even if I have a large party. I want my Child of Bhaal to take on the other Bhaalspawn in a one-on-one battle. If the other Bhaalspawn have henchmen, the rest of my party takes care of them, or else I imprison them or eliminate them with my snipers before the battle begins. It makes the game more personal, and therefore more immersive.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:13 am

Now this was a memorable run through the underground.

Right after we arrived, Haerdalis gave me and Aerie an ultimatum about our love. I've told him to bugger off, he went away. No big deal, one party member out, I can catch Sola in a few minutes, and finishing the underdark with five is the same as six. I have Aerie for spellcasting.

Ok. Then, after we fought the dimensional drow box enemies, and defeated the lich, Korgan starts the final sequence with Aerie, and she asks me who she wants on the party.

I told her to go whine somewhere else, and she left (taking the staff of Rynn +4, which I regret, my PC uses blunt weapons).

Four party members! And - I hadnt noticed yet - no one to resurrect people. I had not picked up Viconya due to the fact that she'd turn my party into the evil side too quick.

So now, it was me, Barbarian, either dual wielding hammers or using staffs, Korgan, Valygar and Imoen. Imoen is not my kind of spellcaster, I dont know why, but she is now charged to cast spells and buff the entire party.

The Drow city went kinda smooth, but when I decided to take all the blood quests for the queen... oh my.

The Elder Orb was ok. Tried it three times, used the cheese shield, no problem.

The fish things were bloodthirsty, but they went down ok, after a few tries.

Oh, the Mind Flayers, however...

I was killed and killed and killed mercilessly by them. Once, twice, seven times till I've reached the last corridors. After an incident when my slayer killed Imoen, I've opened the final door and entered for the fight with the last mind flayer (an Ulitharid Vampire, or something) and the Brain Golems.

I needed the Staff or Rynn now, cause the Brain golems can only be hurt by +3 weapons, and I was using a plain +2 mace and the flail of ages, which dont hurt them. Korgan wielded the axe versus giants that you pick up on the Nalia's stronghold, and Imoen had a few spells, none of them wondrous cause I wasnt really looking strong yet. Valygar was dual wielding Katanas, the +2 defender and his family blade, which could harm the Flayer but not the golems. That was trouble. I swarmed around the flayer, disrupted him and his allies (two) which left Imoen stunned and killed Valygar from inteligence drain. Korgan and me could take care of the golems, you say, yes, but we were already low on health, and I used to spend more time drinking health potions than actually fighting, and it seems that those creeps have regeneration, cause they took an awfull lot of time to die. But they did.

The Brain is easy, which I regret

After that it was me and Korggy, we picked up the leftovers, and went straight away into the Snirfvrebling place to sleep for a while. Next we did was killing the devil that lurks in the deeps, which was not hard, with both enrage and barbarian rage (you cant be caught into fear) and now we're in the drow city, have bought a ressurrection wand (cant recall if in the inside store or in the outside store).

The fact is: Even though I've been playing the game to achieve max experience before going to the underdark (havent completed the Keep though) I've found out that it is really funny to attempt a lower leveled party. Also, I'm not using power weapons, which I could, but I will leave them for special encounters (namely Kangaax, Imp Irenicus, Imp Demogorgon, yadda yadda).

Twas a funny encounter, hope to be able to share more in the next few days.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:15 pm

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]The fact is: Even though I've been playing the game to achieve max experience before going to the underdark (havent completed the Keep though) I've found out that it is really funny to attempt a lower leveled party. Also, I'm not using power weapons, which I could, but I will leave them for special encounters (namely Kangaax, Imp Irenicus, Imp Demogorgon, yadda yadda).[/QUOTE]
IMO, being challenged by a game makes it more fun. Challenge creates struggles; struggles create conflict; and conflict creates great stories.

I advise you not to complete Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn. Unfortunately, Chapter Six will be completely linear if you did all of the sidequests in Chapter Two and that might tempt you to finish Watcher's Keep. But the last chapters aren't much fun if your characters are too high in level (unless you enjoy humiliating your enemies and not just killing them, in which case, you should be as creative as possible). Watcher's Keep also provides a nice break from the linearity in Throne of Bhaal, and it's still challenging enough for a Throne of Bhaal party.