Totally New System.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:27 am

Ok, Magrus and I are starting a new system for Pen and Paper style, however, we are wanting some opinions and ideas for the actual game.

Now, the system itself has influences from Elder Scrolls 3 (how you level, your major/minor features, and names of the skills given), World of Darkness (The ranking system), and Dungeon's and Dragons (creatures, monsters, races, spells).

Now, what I'm lookin for from y'all are 3 things that could help us out.

#1- What monster's should we include? We have a specific race selection, but what about actual monsters and beasts? Should we go all out on the DND selection, or should we keep a smaller list to do up? Should we include templates such as Lycanthrope or Celestial? Should we include unique DND things like the "Dire" animals?

#2- What spells should we include? Do you have an idea for a unique spell? Spells can go up to 20th level by our "Tree" system, so at what level should spells be from DND? We have two sects of spells that cover the schools of DND, Elementalism and Transmutational, so which spells should go where?

#3- We have things called "Powers" in the game. These are specific abilities derived from skills. Basically, they are feats from DND, but can be a bit more advanced. What should we include? Do you have a Unique idea for a power? When including them, what do you think there prerequisits should be (note, a "none, minor, medium, heavy, or expert" requisit can do, lest you want the stats to look over of course, then you can go specific)? This system does not have classes whatsoever, so should powers include special abilities from classes? If so, name a few that would be good ideas.

If you all wanted to help on this, just either relpy here, or you can check the stats on my site. I don't mind which you choose.

If you don't want to go to my site, and wish to have the stats (so far) to look through, Private Message me your email and I'll send it over.

So, in closing, Any thoughts, opinions, ideas? Also, something minor, we need a cool catchy name for this game. Any ideas for that as well.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:14 pm

*lights flares and waves* Yeah, to expand on this, any creative minds are welcome to give input. All those involved will be credited if so desired and eventually we will have a base which will need playtesting. The majority of the work is being done between myself and Syberis here, on and off his website we co-admin. For a basic idea of the game, I'll delve a bit into it here. Details can be found at http://levistus.proboards42.com/index.cgi?board=hero if so desired.

Essentially, I have been looking to create a PnP RPG with a more streamlined combat system and gameplay that is based more on figures than random dice results. This leads to the game focusing heavily on character creation and development, and breaks it down into a thought provoking affair. With the free-form character creation system we are planning to implement, you can quite literally be anything.

Not only that, we are incorporating reincarnation as a standard part of our game, with various planes being the stops you make. With seperate racial progression and no formal "classes", but a seperate progression based on leveling beyond racial abilities, you keep track of your stats in two ways. This allows you to carry on the knowledge you have gained (I. E. experience in a vocation) to your next life, and start a character as a new race, but with all the experience of your last character. Knowledge, skills, abilities, etc roll over into this new form, which is up to the DM to choose or determine randomly.

Being inventive with magic, combat skills, enchantment and item creation, spell creation, and such is definately something I feel like incorporating into the game. I plan on delving heavily into the enchantment areas, and applying various magical styles to the game. Also, in this game, as there are no true classes, you can become either a master in a few areas, or dabble in everything if you so wish and can figure into your character concept. Becoming a sword-master who can channel mystical powers through combat with the sword is something very easily done with the game. You need not switch from wizard to fighter in this game, you mix the two as soon as you wish to by choosing the appropriate Attributes and Abilities.

I do believe I'll stop there, but please, do ask any and all questions you have. Don't be shy, I'm sure not. :laugh:

Keltoi · Post by **Keltoi** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:57 pm

Hi,

I sure don't want to be a spoilsport but...

Not only that, we are incorporating reincarnation as a standard part of our game, [...] This allows you to carry on the knowledge you have gained (I. E. experience in a vocation) to your next life, and start a character as a new race, but with all the experience of your last character.

...what for???
Are people in your game-world born as adults?
This system would only make sense if you didn't play continuous storylines. Otherwise the rest of the party would have to play at least 16 years playtime untill a reincarnated caracter could join again.
Facite: Very nice idea but imho not really practicable.

Best wishes and goodluck for your project
Keltoi

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:09 pm

Well, one of the things I didn't like about other rpgs is that they are TOO fantasy. They didn't research the weapons or armour well enough. Another thing you may think about is tapping Earth mythology for creatures. Just a thought.

Is this for commercial or private enjoyment? If it is for commercial, I would suggest not looking like you favored any game too heavily. If for private, I say do whatever makes you happy!

I merged your two posts, in the future please use the edit function instead of posting one right after the other. Thanks! Jopperm2

Keltoi · Post by **Keltoi** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:53 am

Hello Pellinore,

I fully agree with your opinion about weapons and armour. Fantasy ok but there are subjects which should be closer to reality than others.

Another point is the weight people are allowed to carry around with them especially with gold coins ;-)
I remember a master who told me, I were not able to carry another rope... Might have been fair enough, but then I really wonder how his NPC carried the 5000 goldcoins (Perhaps about 10 grams each)...
The weight of money is a point, most RPG-systems are missing.

Best wishes
Keltoi

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:04 am

Hi, Keltoi.
I agree about the coinage. When I used to DM back in the 80's and early 90's

, I wouldn't let characters carry around that much coin. I think in one of the old Players Handbooks it states that 10 gold pieces equal 1 pound of weight (gold is heavy:speech: ). And anyone who has carried around a sack of coins to the bank or whatever knows how encumbering it is. Encumberance was always a big issue of mine...players carrying around an arsenal of weapons without the use of pack animals.....

Keltoi · Post by **Keltoi** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:13 am

Hi Pellinore,

the weight of goldcoins depends on their worth, I think. Bigger coins are worth more but heavyer while smaller goldcoins are worth less but lighter.
A good way might be to do it as they did in former times: Some things are worth their weight in gold, others are worth perhaps a tenth of their weight.
To simplify the whole matter one could say a thing is worth xxx grams gold. 1 gram gold is worth xxx grams silver and so on.

Are you really playing since the 80's? Then you are even more a RPG veteran than me

Best wishes
Keltoi

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:52 pm

[QUOTE=Keltoi]...what for???
Are people in your game-world born as adults?
This system would only make sense if you didn't play continuous storylines. Otherwise the rest of the party would have to play at least 16 years playtime untill a reincarnated caracter could join again.
Facite: Very nice idea but imho not really practicable.

Best wishes and goodluck for your project
Keltoi[/QUOTE]

Good point. Being a fantasy game, we can shape it to be however we happen to want things. We hadn't gotten that far in things to be perfectly honest as we are working on basic character creation, equipment, spells, combat and such. As far as my idea, which wasn't at all discussed with anyone, including Syberis there, was that depending on how strong you are when you die, you happen to be reborn on another plane. Sort of a reflection of yourself, and you may or may not be born in a different form. Given that aspect, your former party mates would then be forced to reach you there, or the other way around. Your character, being reborn on that plane, since it isn't a material plane, you are reborn grown, and with your memories and experiences in the game.

*shrugs* Something to work out fully in the future, as I said we haven't gotten there yet, it was simply part of the brainstorming.

As far as weapons and armor, we have done a basic list to do playtesting with for the species we have, and testing out our combat system. You do have a good point however. Most of them are completely unrealistic. However, fantasy is fantasy, and anything done in a fantasy game isn't supposed to technically be realistic.

The weight of money is a good point as well. We were planning on doing a different system of money besides the gold coins bit actually. Paper money was brought up as a possibility, for exactly the reason so we wouldn't have to worry about the weight of coins. However, that's another of the sections of the game we haven't reached yet.

As far as whether this is for private or commercial use, I believe we agreed it would be for private enjoyment. Unless it turned out to be a solid game, and it got a large following under it from our website. In which case, chances are we would start marketing and selling it to get it out there and profit a bit from the work we put into it. As fun as it may be to contemplate and brainstorm, it really is a good deal of creative work, time and energy to put something like this together and do even a decent job at balancing things.

Anyways, thank you for your input, it is much appreciated! We are always looking for new ideas and angles of looking at things we haven't thought of on our own.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:45 pm

Yes, Keltoi...sadly enough I have been playing since 1977. I played Basic Rules then (red box) and switched to AD&D in late 1978 when a friend showed me that I was behind the times and introduced me to Advanced. I had all 3 printings of 1st edition and then I bought almost all the second edition stuff. My playing started to die off when they started ruining the game with Skills & Powers and reprinting everything in black covers. Third edition totally turned me off mostly because I didn't want to learn a new system.

And Magrus....good luck on your game! One more suggestion.....no Drow!

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:37 pm

[QUOTE=Pellinore]And Magrus....good luck on your game! One more suggestion.....no Drow![/QUOTE]

:laugh: I hate to say it, but if we do go commercial, chances are we will end up having something of the sort as an option. Simply because, well, people eat it up. For some strange reason...

Keltoi · Post by **Keltoi** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:03 am

Hi Magrus,

the longer I think about that reincarnation-stuff the less I like it.
Of course, it will be YOUR system and I guess lots of people would like the Idea of not having to make a new char after dying but I can't see the practical use.

Let me explain, why I think that way, so you can follow my thougts.

Wat happens to the player, if a char dies and what happens to the party?
Everyone (except the GM sometimes but that's not the place to discuss bad manners in game-mastering

) is annoyed: The player is upset, because he lost a beloved character in whom he invested time, thoughts, ideas, his heartblood (thats a term which I translated literally so I don't know whether it is used in english)... and before he can join the party again he has to build a new char which means a lot of work. The GM has to create a situation which allows the new member to join, which can be most unnerving (especially if your party reacts as normal people would: Never trust a stranger without good reason) and the party has to cope with their loss. That will be even worse if someone died in the middle of an extremely huge and hard one-way-dungeon... (The usual place to die, I fear

) In the best case there is some high-level-priest/cleric/magician/... around who can resurrect the corpse. In this case you don't need that reincarnation on another plane thingy, of course.
In the middle of this former mentionned veeeeery huge dungeon there would be no use of a reincarnated char who floats around that immaterial plane, waiting for the party to be forced to find him... In this worst case only a dimension-portal, leading directly from the reincarnation plane to the dungeon would be the one and only (and most boring) solution - here it would be better if a high levelled priest/... would walk by eventually and resurrect the corpse which would make the reincarnation useless once more.
And even in situations which allowed the party a little trip to that plane that would break the continuity of the adventure which is annoying, too.
So the only useful situation for your nevertheless nice idea would be a dying char between two adventures... Maybe he would die from a stroke or while training his climbing-skills?

I am sorry but I really cannot imagine one single situation in which your Idea would be of practical use.
But thats not all: Of course the player will be happy. His (or her of course) beloved character will not be lost. After a little adventure he or she can join the party again and everything will be fine. Death would lose its horror which means that more risks will be taken carelessly. Fine for the players but at least less fun for everybody. One thing I like most while olaying RPGs is the tension. A little paranoya mixed with the fear of dying... For me it would be a loss if I knew: "Oh, maybe I will die if I try to march in and take the dragon's gold but that will be okay since I will come back, soon."

You see my point?

Best wishes
Keltoi

P.s. Pellinore, I was born in 1977 and role-playing since 1992.

If you'd like to exchange experiences I would be glad to talk to you via PM for this might be a little bit off-topic here.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:27 am

The fear of dying is what made D&D so thrilling for me. You love your character the more you play him/her and guide them through hard, dangerous adventures. You just don't enjoy that character as much if you can say: "Oh well, I'll just be resurrected tomorrow and everything will be fine".

And Keltoi, please feel free to PM me but know this: sometimes I am gone for days on end, LOL! I am a whimsical person and sometimes don't get on the computer for several days. So I may not be able to return messages right away. Other than that, we're good.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:36 am

Good point yes, I do see.

My concept for this game was basically to make it a free-form RPG with choice of how things are done to be the most important thing. Anything put into the game would be the people playing the game's choice on whether to use it that way or not. For example, our game does not have "classes", however, we plan on making "class builds". Why? So that it would be easier for new players to see how to work our system to fit the stereotypical basis for a fighter, or cleric, or mage, or whatever. It is my hope to see it to be essentially an ultimately customizable and malleable game that could very well be adapted and fit into any sort of game you wanted to make it.

Along these lines, the reincarnation piece wouldn't necessarily have to be put into the game if it wasn't wanted there. However, since you two are the only two to comment on this, and both of you are older than I happen to be, I'm assuming you have knowledge of one of the older spells I recall vaguely from 2nd edition AD&D ( I think), the actual Reincarnation spell? I don't have any of my old version books any longer, but I believe it worked as a lower level spell than Resurrection, and it was a random die roll to see what race you ended up as. Something like 1-30% was Human, and 31-38% was Elf, etc. This is another way which it could be taken. Something akin to divine intervention, where the DM either chooses a new race, rolls for it, or works out between the player and the DM which race to change to.

Now with this way, instead of having it end a characters game, or making the party be forced to either leave the character dead, or pay to have him/her resurrected, the story would be altered to incorporate the death and rebirth of the character. It would promote a bit of change without losing the experience of your character. You're elven mage who dies at 17th level doesn't necessarily have to either come back as is or die, another option would be placed before the players to choose from is all. That character may be born again as say, a troll, or a halfling. Along the same lines as the level adjustment system of the new version of D&D depending on what race you end up as, if it is along the same lines of "power", you would keep your memories. If it is too foreign (more or less powerful), adjustments would be made. That new troll character may only remember half of the experiences that was of her old life, and so would be a troll and 9th level mage. Something of that sort.

Again, it would just be a fleshed out option, nothing which would make or break the game. A different method of doing things available in the event a player was sick of having the options of A: Scrap the character, or B: Have your friends pay to bring you back.