I've narrowed it down to two, please help me pick which party to go with:

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:55 am

Party 1:

1) Human Paladin
2) Gnome Fighter
3) Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger
4) Half-Elf Fighter/Druid
5) Half-Elf Bard
6) Human Thief 7 > Wizard

Party 2:

1) Human Paladin
2) Gnome Fighter/Illusionist
3) Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger
4) Half-Elf Fighter/Druid
5) Half-Elf Bard
6) Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:16 pm

Party #1

Hi Krunchy,

Personally, I would go with #1 primarily for the dual class thief/mage. Party #2 has 2 magic users but they are both multi class. I think with #2 you may hit a point (not sure where that might be if you choose to do HoW and/or TotL) where you'll find yourself saying geez I wish I had (pick name of any good 6th/7th Mage) level spell. A multiclass xxx/Mage gets to 11th level and 5th level spells in a decent time but (IMHO) they hit a stiff wall as it takes 750k (since you are splitting the experience between two classes) to gain a level in mage after that. A fighter/thief/mage is even worse with a 3 way split (1125k xp to rise in mage). The other classes of course will go up faster but it will seem like "forever" before he/she levels in mage. This is one reason I don't like to use Aerie in BGII, she is a cleric/mage. Even doing all the add on modules you will likely finish the game not long after you get a 7th level spell, probably even before with the triple class. Would hate to miss putting some of those 7th level spells to a lot of use, not to even mention the really killer 8th and 9th level spells.
A character can get to 7th thief pretty quick and that is more than enough to handle the thieving requirements in IWD (sadly). But I have a soft spot for gnome fighter/thieves (love that helmet Conlon sells). I know this would mean more thieving levels than necessary, but I would be tempted to go with a gnome/thief and a plain mage. Just my preference.
But of your two parties I think number one is the better one. BTW, I really like Cleric/Rangers, they get druidic spells mixed in with the normal clerical ones and much faster than a regular Ranger. Sure is nice having a Cleric that can cast Entangle at 1st level.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:41 pm

If using HoW, a Cleric/Ranger cannot cast entangle until it's ranger side is of a level where a pure ranger could cast it - that's lvl 6, I believe.

Party 2 is stronger if playing on higher difficulty levels, offsetting the nasty three-way XP split on the F/M/T. The party may suffer a little by not having a clear-cut first arcane option. The F/I is probably the best bet, although it might be focused on useful spells for melee (MI, Blur, Armor, Shield) or casting a single effective spell then joining melee (Web, Slow, Fireball, Confusion). The bard is better as a buffer/summoner, so it can sing full-time in combat. The F/M/T levels too slowly at every difficulty level, except possibly HoF, for it to be the primary caster.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:20 am

Cleric/Ranger

Aerich,

You said:

If using HoW, a Cleric/Ranger cannot cast entangle until it's ranger side is of a level where a pure ranger could cast it - that's lvl 6, I believe.

But my Cleric/Ranger used entangle when he was just 1st/1st level on the **spoilers** goblins in Easthaven, Orcs in the Cave just outside Easthaven, and on the goblins in the dale area just before reaching Kuhldahar. , so that can't be right. I do not have any mods (unless you count TotL as one. I don't have any patches installed, but because I bought the IWD package I was under the impression that the HoW Expansion in that set included the only patches needed.

The rules may say that is the case (haven't checked that yet) but the game definitely let my 1/1 cleric ranger cast entangle. In fact whenever he levels to where he gets a new level of spells, the druidic ones open to him at that level all become immediately available. They haven't ever appeared at a later time in his available spell list.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:56 pm

Weird! Did you perchance install HoW part way through your game? No matter, it's a nice little benefit for you.

With HoW and TotL, you don't need anything else.

I've never found it to be absolutely necessary to have a mage casting high level spells. The right low-level spell in the right place can be very effective, so don't let the magic criticisms of party #2 lead you to believe the party will be affected too much. So many multiclasses does lend itself to higher difficulty levels, though.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:04 pm

i'd go for party 2 myself cos i think it would be quite a fun party to play, even if it is difficult at times. it depends on if you are looking for the best party or the most fun party i guess and your playing style.

i agree with aerich too. you don't need higher level spells as there are some very useful lower level ones. of course higher level spells would make life easier though.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:51 pm

so, mr_sir, what would be the most powerful party (doesn't have to be oneof my choices above) in your opinion?

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:26 am

i don't really power game but the party i found the easiest to play as was a paladin, cleric/fighter, cleric, druid, mage and thief but thats cos i love playing spellcasters. also tried it with a paladin, cleric/mage and thief and that was pretty easy after a while but the first parts (up until after the vale of shadows) were quite difficult as they were not at particularly high levels yet.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:58 am

Aerich, Mr_Sir,

You're absolutely right that the higher level spells aren't necessary but as mentioned they do help tremendously. "For me" in all honesty, I would just hate to (or have someone else) miss out on the fun of using them. By the time a multiclass would be able to use 7th level spells like finger of death, there aren't near as many viable "victims" to use them on (Most of the opposition then has really good saving throws). Wouldn't even get a chance to use Malavon's Rage, Power Word Kill, or some of the other nifty 8th and 9th level ones. Matter of choice I guess.

Aerich,

Regarding your question, I can't remember the exact point when I loaded HoW but it was "after" I had created my first party. However, my cleric/ranger still acquired the higher level ranger (druidic) spells at the same level as the clerical ones (4th druid when able to cast 4th cleric, etc.) Also I am running my 5th (or maybe 6th) party through IWD and one of those parties also had a cleric/ranger (I really like that combo) and they too could use entangle as early as Easthaven. Perhaps I opened a loophole (so to speak) when I did the install the way I did. Not complaining, and as you said "nice little benefit"