romance poll

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:21 am

As I said before, in my opinion (and it is only an opinion based on the character personas), I think there were supposed to be many more romantic options out there than they had time to program. I note in paticular that dwarves, halflings, and half-orcs are left completely out in the cold [not to mention that there is only one choice for our female protagonists out there].

I agree with a lot of you that there *ought* to have been a Nalia romance. Furthermore, I think one was *intended* since in ToB her alignment shifts to N-G (not much of a spoiler there since the Pro has nothing to do with it in ToB as-is). I suspect that the alignment shift was supposed to be part of the romance.

As for marrying Nalia, in the actual game, you don't...even as a fighter. I wondered about that really, because (having a bit of knowledge of Midaeval history and politics), that solution would have been *ideal*. Such marriages in the low middle ages (between newly widowed or orphaned noblewomen and great warriors that won renown on the battlefield) were actually fairly common and an accepted way to gain a fief through the king. [Indeed this is alluded to during the funeral.] As such, I found Nalia's dismissal of the idea....well...odd to say the least. [I *do* think that if you were a fighter you *were* supposed to marry her and that would start the romance....possibly with some lines prior during the freeing of her family keep.]

Thoughts? This is just a hunch of mine. Input from someone that has more knowledge of bioware would be appreciated as always.

-Polaris

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:40 am

My votes :

1)Jaheira of course.

(At least I have no problems with her romance - I can fix all these bugs). Aerie's romance is too short and she is too whiny. Viconia ?! I have just done her romance on cluaconsole

, yes it could be interesting , but my PCs story requires him to be drows enemy (except Drizzt and Solaufein maybe)- recently he has slaughtered Ust'Nasha.

2)I have no idea, but I agree that Mazzy should be romance option for halflings , and especially for dwarves because they cannot romance anyone. The rest races could romance some NPC (halflings could romance Jaheira and An0omen depending on gender of PC, gnomes could romance Aerie and Halforcs could romance Viconia)

And small note to Fable :

Um, what romance? We're talking about a few lines of fake dialog probably written by a 300-pound guy with a four day growth of beard(called Bubba by his fellow programmers) for some pixels. You want romance? Put up a screensaver, and go out there to meet human beings. You'll be thrilled at the originality and uniqueness of each one, the remarkable AI, the range of images, and the surprising tactileness of their responses once you get to know 'em.

Maybe romances wre really written by fat man or something , it really doesn't matter because at lest it makes this game more interesting and real, whatever it means.

Do you really prefer NPCs from BG1 for example where they had only joining/kicking dialogues and soeveral poor lines to said as insults or compliments ?

If so then you should change game you are playing : I suggest Diablo 2 LoD - there is a lot of fight , not so many "interactions" or other RPG things. Yes, if someone really want to find girfriend then he should look around in real world, but for example I found it very good that the story of my PC has some romance aspect and he is not only hero and killing machine. So I don't suppose that these "romances" could be substitute of normal relations. I know also what these romances are from the programing /technical side, I could make my own if I wish (and have enough dialogues what is the problem since I'm not romance stories writer). I know what NPCs are, even PC - all of them are the collection of data, but there was put some work, creation to collect these data in such a way that they are interesting for so many people.

So In conclussion, I don't understand why do you have any objections about these romances. At least you could see then as other single quest in game and the topic about romances as the same as topics comparing difficulty of killing dragon and lich or vice versa.

If you are really such an opponent of romances I will ask Kensai Ryu next time , so he will send me his "Romances disabling scripts", since it may have some influence on game speed (though I'm not certain).

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:53 am

@Polaris : Yes it is strange from logical point of view that there are no marriage between fighting PC and Nalia at the end of De'Arnise trolls quest. In European tradition it was very often case. (A lot in the history of my own country). There is one problem however, what in case if PC would like to romance Viconia instead for example ?. He will not receive keep ?

Yes maybe they (BioWare) planned more romances (and quests as well) like unuased actually "Small teeth pass" area or North Forest (there was not so much to do). Sometimes it looks for me that Bioware started to do something and didn't finished in this game (I understand that they were restricted by marketing, market terms - the game must have been ready for the specified moment, even if all side quests were not included)

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:59 am

Manveru,

I actually don't see a problem with the protagonist marrying Nalia and having a full blown romance with one of the other ladies. In fact (as you surely know) such things were hardly unheard of in the middle ages and often accepted with a wink and a nudge. That would be especially true in this case (the marriage would be obviously political in nature).

Now how the *other* young ladies would take to this is another question.....since the Pro would at least have to give the *appearence* of doing his marital duties

My guess is that Vic and Jaheira would accept this (probably with some ill grace) and Aerie in the end would force the choice: Your keep or me. That is just my opinion based on the personas. Your thoughts?

-Polaris

desperation52 · Post by **desperation52** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 8:22 am

haha..I love Aerie.
Somehow I prefer meek girls who can fire fireballs, fuss over me, and still manage that naive,innocent "side"
Jaheria's too independent...
Viciona's too erm..."hot"
and I'm not gay so the guys are out.
A romance with Imonen will be nice though, I always thought that I could marry her in BG2...after all I wasted at least 1/2 of my game trying to rescue her..besides she fires fireballs too...

F

Caster13 · Post by **Caster13** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 12:43 pm

Originally posted by Coffin Dancer:
haha..I love Aerie.
Somehow I prefer meek girls who can fire fireballs, fuss over me, and still manage that naive,innocent "side"
Jaheria's too independent...
Viciona's too erm..."hot"

Ha! You like fireballs yet you can't seem to handle Viconia? ^_^

As for me, I've never completed any of the female NPC romances yet >.< My first game was with a female sorceress so I got stuck with Anomen whome I didn't really get far with.

But as for other NPCs, I'd say Bodhi, I'm sure some of you guys have seen my (attempted) art of her (though my site has been down for a long time now, cheap free server).

-Caster

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:54 pm

1] Viconia, I guess.
2] The red-headed Paladin outside the Radiant Heart, the one Garrick's trying to shmooze. Don't know why exactly, but she looks hot (and I think it's kinda sad I noticed that). Imoen, if she's not my sister (and I think we exhausted that topic on another thread). I don't think she is, but it's still hard to get past that.

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:20 pm

Originally posted by Caster:
 ^_^
>.<

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
That reminds me of the Koreans in the D2 Europe server...

Forgot: Nalia would have been a good alternative romance, but Imoen...she's your half-sister...Nah...

666th_Phantom · Post by **666th_Phantom** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:31 pm

hmmm...
Aerie is actually for good guys.
Jaheira for neutral and
Viconia for bad-asses like me (hehe i am mostly good but i'm bad ass assassin).
I am allways with Jaheira, next ill try Viconia cos she's hot. The face looks better than those other female forms. Aerie and Jaheira have those sharp ears since they are elves (i hate it). But i would freak out if when i was about to go to bed with her (viconia) i would find out that she was "he". Who knows maybe she can transform into other forms, mabe those guys tried to burn him cos he was a skin dancer for all they knew. But if i could, i would choose Nalia, she's normal human... though still a bit whacked up with "for the needy!" crap.
And Imoen? i dont know she is also whining all the time. But if they would get laid, that would have been one hell of Bhall kid. No perhaps if they would get laid with Irenicus or Bodhi also? Hey! but that could be the whole new story ! U and imoen made kid and Irenicus and Bodhi made one also. They all died exept the kids, so when they became 25, they had war on their hand ! damn i rule!! uhm... do i rule?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:37 pm

2.Safana
2.Mazzy

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:45 pm

Originally posted by 666th_Phantom:
 Irenicus and Bodhi made one also. They all died exept the kids, so when they became 25, they had war on their hand ! damn i rule!! uhm... do i rule?

Umm...Imoen is your half-sis, and Bodhi and Irenicus are brother and sister! What is this incest-country!?

666th_Phantom · Post by **666th_Phantom** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 3:35 pm

dude im kidding.
'sides its 4 in the morning here and im tired... I demand that we stop, the day was not this long even when i led soldiers in the order.

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 3:36 pm

4 am!?! Where do ya live, Alaska? It's barely 12:30AM here...

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sat Aug 11, 2001 7:42 pm

Guys,

Romancing Imoen (at least at first) would be reasonable since you *don't* find out she is your sister until fairly late in the game. Having said that, I think Bioware didn't want to touch that incest angle with a proverbial 10 foot pole (and understandably so IMO).

I STILL wish that Nalia had been a romance choice and I am still convinced (esp given what Manveru said) that she was intended to be (read up on how some noble families got started in early midaeval europe). Even if you chose someone else, seeing how Viccy, Jaheira, and/or Aerie dealt with a political marriage would have made for some *interesting* dialog.

As for alignments, I honestly think that in the 'real' baseline story (to ressurect another old thread) that Jaheira is supposed to be your romanic interest. Of course of the three ladies I prefer her so I might be biased, but it seems to be the most natural and 'real' of the three.

Concerning alignments and reputations: I think Aerie was meant for you 'Dudly do-right' Paladin types out there. Jaheira I think was meant for the more introspectiv and realistic GOOD or NEUTRAL hero (you can not complete the romance successfully if your reputation stays below 10 so she is NOT a good romance for an evil character)....and yes, I think Viccy was your choice if you were evil.

OTOH, if you play through ToB, Viccy I find makes for a very interesting and satisfying romance....much more so than in SoA since you get to influence the sort of person she becomes (I suppose that was a spoiler but it is the worst kept secret on the board).

-Polaris

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 12:37 am

I agree in 100% for the Jaheira's role in the game story - I assume tham Bioware developers or rather story writers firstly made one, base version of the story and then added all possible differences that were implemented into game depending on time of course. So they made firstly main game couse and then added side quests, additional possibilities of finishing it.

As for Nalia : "Marriage" with her would require some small modifications in her dialogue files as well as in dialogs of romance interests (except Anomen , since female PC will not be able to marry Nalia) . I suppose that Viconia and Jaheira would understand these financial/political reasons of marriage when truly PC is their lover. Aerie would oppose that because of her nature as said Polaris.

Mazzy - this would require writing the ful romance story with dialogues to make romance. As I said many times I can take care of all technical aspects, but writing romance stories is too hard for me (I don't know English good enough as well as I have not so good writing capabilities). Still waiting for volunteersthat could do that.

The same about Imoen (but it would require rewriting the main game concept - especially dialogues at the end of SoA, one would have to find all dialogues refering to the Imoen as the "sister" of PC - other case would be disgusting)

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 1:05 am

Manveru,

I happen to be a native english speaker, so I will give it some thought. Having said that, no promises. [I have other demands on my time...or more accurately I soon will.] You should be aware, however, that I am a physicist by education *not* a creative writer. I think you would be better served by someone with better story telling skills than mine. That is a HINT to you lurkers out there

-Polaris

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 1:39 am

Originally posted by fable:
Um, what romance? We're talking about a few lines of fake dialog probably written by a 300-pound guy with a four day growth of beard(called Bubba by his fellow programmers) for some pixels. You want romance? Put up a screensaver, and go out there to meet human beings. You'll be thrilled at the originality and uniqueness of each one, the remarkable AI, the range of images, and the surprising tactileness of their responses once you get to know 'em.

I find it amuzing that somebody with 2k+ posts would suggest somebody else needed a life.

666th_Phantom · Post by **666th_Phantom** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 1:45 am

Good morning!
10:30am

...i hate Aerie. always takes a deep breath after talkin: ill help however i can sigh. Or repeating: Get out of here! HE's, HE's killled every1! I've never walked so much in my life, can sigh, can we stop?

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 9:05 am

Please may I remind you that stating your relationship status with Imoen is a spoiler, and should be noted as such before posting

I think there were supposed to be many more romantic options out there than they had time to program. I note in paticular that dwarves, halflings, and half-orcs are left completely out in the cold

Bioware have admitted that the inability of Half-orcs to romance Vicionia is a bug, which is why it is in the Kevin Dorner bugfix pack.

How could you have a romance with Imoen? Romances don't start till after the first dungeon, where you lose her. You then don't find her again until you're in a position where a romance would be impossible....unless you're that way inclined, which Bioware can simply say Imoen isn't

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Aug 12, 2001 9:53 pm

I never suggested that Imoen was a possible romance that was dropped. I *do* think that Nalia, Valgyr, and Mazzy were supposed to be romances though.

I *said* that a romance with Imoen would certainly be conceivable (possibly starting in BG1). Obviously Black-Isle didn't want to touch that (understandably), but you don't find you she's your sister until very late in the chronical (as measured from the first time you leave Candlekeep).

-Polaris