Game Balance?

Radio Star · Post by **Radio Star** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:28 pm

I've recently reinstalled DL with the 1.4 patch (bought it at release - uninstalled it after twenty minutes) and was having a grand ol' time. I started a pure warrior (fighter/adept/samurai/paladin), played him up until I cacked Captain Okatta. Put him on the back burner and started a hybrid (adept/mage/battlemage/paladin) who I got to the same point. I enjoyed the hack and slash, but magic seemed a bit weak. Since I love a challenge, I decided to fire up a pure mage.

Oh boy was I in for a shock.

My mage is now level 12. My mage is also absolutely immortal. If anyone out there wants to powergame, the character you want is an elf female playing as an adept/mage/sorcerer/enchantress/wizard. It was a bit aggravating at first, but I stuck with it until I picked up my two second tier classes. I've never looked back.

I'll start with the more minor issue I have with the present balance. Certain merchants like you more. It seems like merchants in Arindale/Fargrove give better prices and merchants affiliated with the same guilds as you give better ones yet. This system falls apart once you have a decent rank in bargain and a reasonable honor score. At that point, you can buy goods from a merchant then sell them back at a profit. Infinite money for a mage = nearly infinite power. I have managed to stay away from this temptation.

What I cannot bring myself to do is to not spend points on arcane magic when the entire premise of the character is to be an arcane magic user. Why do I need to avoid spending points on this? Because learning bonuses are broken. They are stupidly broken and need to be revised with a system providing diminishing returns. Don't think so? Let me tell you some of my character's statistics.

She's level 12. She has about six hit points. She has low armor but I could run around naked. It's not the level seven spellfire. It's not the ten ranks in celestial and nether magic. It's certainly not the two points in alchemy.

It's the 21 points in arcane magic.

Level 12 character. Level 21 arcane. Another point in arcane only sets me back about 100k. It's still got plenty of room to go up easily.

Two fireballs will kill or cripple most groups. One blast nova will destroy anything around me. Fire nova? Why bother? I can kill the enemies the plot is putting in my way with a single magic missile.

What's the point?

Fix stacking learning bonuses. Fix merchant money exploits.

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:52 am

[QUOTE=Radio Star]I've recently reinstalled DL with the 1.4 patch... blah blah blah [snip][/QUOTE]
How about we agree to wait until the 1.4 patch officially comes out before we complain about it.

SWC

darkkken · Post by **darkkken** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:25 am

how about???

chunnelers, greater demons, barrowgrim marauders and others are fairly immune to most magics, at least until you beef up channeling - have you been to the demigoth, or the forbidden lands below skuldoon - all creatures are significantly tougher to kill down there

not to mention daedroth, tomb of souls, or shadow ruins :speech::speech:

Radio Star · Post by **Radio Star** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:48 am

[QUOTE=swcarter]How about we agree to wait until the 1.4 patch officially comes out before we complain about it.

SWC[/QUOTE]

We could also give input before the official release in the hopes of getting a better product.

Darkkken, if I can't toast it with a nova, I can just pop out an angel. That's another spell that could use some rebalancing.

The Master · Post by **The Master** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:18 pm

I pretty much agree that balance is an issue, and I don't think just with magic. I've played through twice, once as an enchantress/marauder/war witch and once as a sorceror/paladin/wizard. Both times I found that somewhere around the naga temple was the turning point of combat being a challenge to being fairly easy, and after that I was almost invulnerable. Nauselom was a bit tough, and two drakes at a time toasted me, but not much else. Shaduroth nailed me the first time and I beat him pretty easily the second, which may have been due to using more magic with the wizard or maybe just knowing what to expect and how to deal with it (like that purple locust cloud--what is that?). Haven't played with 1.4, but it doesn't sound like it's more challenging. This is not to say there aren't other challenges besides fighting (like the infamous water jump) or that I didn't still have fun, but it would have been more fun if it was more like the early stages where I had to play really smart to avoid getting killed. Anyway, that's my opinion.

TM

eldritch · Post by **eldritch** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:00 pm

Cataclysm catechism

My level 24 adept/mage/././wizard (elf female) recently obtained Cataclysm from the Temple of Doom. With 21 in Arcane and 11 in Spellfire this spell is unbelievable - it makes the Nova spells look like firecrackers. With a high Bargain skill and high honors you never run out of money and can acquire as many of these spells (approx $13K a pop) as you want. (You make a profit on any item you sell and then buy back.)

... Using ver 1.41

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:16 pm

[QUOTE=Radio Star]We could also give input before the official release in the hopes of getting a better product.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, let's write a 400-word rant and then spin it to make ourselves look noble.

There's sometimes a subtle distinction between discussing a game (which we encourage) and bashing a game (which we discourage). I try to be lenient as a moderator, but this thread is on thin ice. If you'd like to point out potential problems with the upcoming 1.4 patch, then feel free. If you just want to complain about the game, then please go over to DreamCatcher's forums.

SWC

Radio Star · Post by **Radio Star** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:22 pm

[QUOTE=Radio Star]Fix stacking learning bonuses. Fix merchant money exploits.[/QUOTE]

Okay. I appear to have gotten off on the wrong foot. First off, I like the game. If I didn't, I wouldn't have created three different characters to date. My tone was admittedly abrasive in my initial post, but I was mad! If my disappointment overshadowed my point, then I apologize. If I was too strident, it's because I actually care about the game. The character development system is one of the best I've ever seen and I'd hate to see such potential wasted.

In the future, I'll make an effort to keep a more constructive tone and back off the negativity a bit.

william_w_m · Post by **william_w_m** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:07 am

[QUOTE=eldritch]My level 24 adept/mage/././wizard (elf female) recently obtained Cataclysm from the Temple of Doom. With 21 in Arcane and 11 in Spellfire this spell is unbelievable - it makes the Nova spells look like firecrackers. With a high Bargain skill and high honors you never run out of money and can acquire as many of these spells (approx $13K a pop) as you want. (You make a profit on any item you sell and then buy back.)

... Using ver 1.41[/QUOTE]
Hey I dont know of any temple of doom in the game i assumed you are talking about the tomb of souls but any way did the spell drop from a chest or what? Thanks for any help you can give me.

darkpark · Post by **darkpark** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:30 pm

it's either the tomb of souls or the temple of daedroth. both locations have good treasure chests.

Planet_Guardian · Post by **Planet_Guardian** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:58 pm

Radio Star wrote:Okay. I appear to have gotten off on the wrong foot. First off, I like the game. If I didn't, I wouldn't have created three different characters to date. My tone was admittedly abrasive in my initial post, but I was mad! If my disappointment overshadowed my point, then I apologize. If I was too strident, it's because I actually care about the game. The character development system is one of the best I've ever seen and I'd hate to see such potential wasted.In the future, I'll make an effort to keep a more constructive tone and back off the negativity a bit.

I'm with you a 100% brother. I love the outline of this game...I just feel there needs to be some points cleared up, better organized, and there needs to be some logical thinking behind the game balance. I too have created now over a dozen different builds as I am a character builder. I too am harsh on this game and its creators, but I am this way for wanting a game to be at its peak potential...and I feel that it is not being abrasive or rude to want the best out of something that I feel has great potential.

Thanks for your insightful and well placed words, Radio Star,
-Planet_Guardian