You can send email from mobile phones and pa's.
One can never know, if one is willing to assume the cabby was Caine, then Caine was driving around a fledgling, and then why not assume he can, and will, use laptops and email.
From the conversation it appears the Cabbie, even as old as he obviously is, keeps an open mind on vampire society, almost considering both the Camarilla as the Anarchs as experiments. Would it be a far stretch that this particular, open minded, vampire could take modern tools, like cars and email, for what they are: usefull ... and fun?
Your appearance is indeed a mystery, how many (low-generation) vampires are stupid enough to sire without permission? And at such a convenient time?
How would things have turned out if you hadn't appeared?
Andrei, mhh, what is his place in this, what were his plans?
Mysterious emails - From a friend???(SPOILERS)
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MalaksBane
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Regarding the use of modern conveniences, if you consider that even though their nature has been changed into something else, vampires try and embrace what they were. It is the only bulwark they have against their new animalistic nature. Humans are infinitely adaptable. Ergo vampires also have the potential for extreme levels of adaptability. I would say that a refusal to change with the times is a personal choice rather then a blanket decision stemming from the stubborness of the individual rather then any preference of the group as a whole whether you take Kindred as a group or divide it up into age groups.
Just my thoughts.
Just my thoughts.
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MalaksBane
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Mhh, sounds like a plausible (psychological) motivation to keep up with the times.
Otoh, I never did understand how a dead body, and brain, would be able to learn anything at all (or even process sensory information, or even get that information), but that's just part of the magic, or something, I suppose.
Otoh, I never did understand how a dead body, and brain, would be able to learn anything at all (or even process sensory information, or even get that information), but that's just part of the magic, or something, I suppose.
--
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
As an example: If I recall correctly, the Toreador drift through the ages and sample all that is good and fine within whatever time they're in. If Vampires as a whole weren't adaptable then they would simply cling to whatever pleasures they had from life and not bother to test the waters with every coming age.
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pennypincher
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It's not a matter of personal choice, dead brains or any such thing. The books make it very clear that, as time goes on, Elder vampires are inevitable left behind due to fear, loathing, arrogance, and the simple banality of their dammed condition. Elders who try to keep up with modern times find their efforts hollow and embittering... Embitterning??... I'm sure theres a word in there some place.
You'll notice that humans do it as well. Ever notice how elderly people like to tell you how it was done "In their day"... And that their old records "just sound better then CD's", and how despite the fact the computer screen clearly says "Press any key to continue", they will call you at 7am to ask which key to press... Sure, some of them TRY to keep up with modern changes, but they are sluggish to grasp the basics and have difficulty with the new concepts no matter how simple and... More often then not... Just give up on the idea and do things as they have always done.
Sure, some older people are quite good with modern devices, and I'm sure there are one or two sad, lonley elder vampires in the game who sit down to send an email to their old friend Baron Claudius Von Stranaverg, knowing that the Barons ghoul will print it out, re-write it in inked hand written form on old parchment and stain it slightly so as not to risk the displeasure of his acient master... But there is another side to this, the political, vampire side, that... As with all things in V:TM, shines through...
When you are surrounded by other Elders, paranoid, frightened, powerful monsters who are just waiting for each other to make a mistake, and you start to stand out from the others in any way... You are risking a LOT. Public mockery from an Elder can result in you being demoted to mud in the city, which is like a death sentance for an elder vampire.
So, ultimatly, no... Caine... And once again I stress, the cabbie (If you are a sane, rational player of the old school paperback) is NOT Caine... Is the least likley person on the face of the planet to have a mobile phone, know how to send an email, drive a car, or even care for these things... Heck, if a creature that acient and powerful wants you to get a message, he speaks directly into your mind.
You'll notice that humans do it as well. Ever notice how elderly people like to tell you how it was done "In their day"... And that their old records "just sound better then CD's", and how despite the fact the computer screen clearly says "Press any key to continue", they will call you at 7am to ask which key to press... Sure, some of them TRY to keep up with modern changes, but they are sluggish to grasp the basics and have difficulty with the new concepts no matter how simple and... More often then not... Just give up on the idea and do things as they have always done.
Sure, some older people are quite good with modern devices, and I'm sure there are one or two sad, lonley elder vampires in the game who sit down to send an email to their old friend Baron Claudius Von Stranaverg, knowing that the Barons ghoul will print it out, re-write it in inked hand written form on old parchment and stain it slightly so as not to risk the displeasure of his acient master... But there is another side to this, the political, vampire side, that... As with all things in V:TM, shines through...
When you are surrounded by other Elders, paranoid, frightened, powerful monsters who are just waiting for each other to make a mistake, and you start to stand out from the others in any way... You are risking a LOT. Public mockery from an Elder can result in you being demoted to mud in the city, which is like a death sentance for an elder vampire.
So, ultimatly, no... Caine... And once again I stress, the cabbie (If you are a sane, rational player of the old school paperback) is NOT Caine... Is the least likley person on the face of the planet to have a mobile phone, know how to send an email, drive a car, or even care for these things... Heck, if a creature that acient and powerful wants you to get a message, he speaks directly into your mind.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=pennypincher]It's not a matter of personal choice, dead brains or any such thing. The books make it very clear that, as time goes on, Elder vampires are inevitable left behind due to fear, loathing, arrogance, and the simple banality of their dammed condition. Elders who try to keep up with modern times find their efforts hollow and embittering... Embitterning??... I'm sure theres a word in there some place.[/QUOTE]
Except we're not talking about 'Elder Vampires'. We're talking about the original vampire. Oh, and 'embittering'.
[QUOTE=pennypincher] Sure, some older people are quite good with modern devices, and I'm sure there are one or two sad, lonley elder vampires in the game who sit down to send an email to their old friend Baron Claudius Von Stranaverg, knowing that the Barons ghoul will print it out, re-write it in inked hand written form on old parchment and stain it slightly so as not to risk the displeasure of his acient master... But there is another side to this, the political, vampire side, that... As with all things in V:TM, shines through...[/QUOTE]
Exactly. 'Some older people'. Me, for example. Pager, Cell, PDA, currently four computers, Lead Programmer with a small, fast-moving force in the computer world, fluent in pretty much any computer language invented since 1946 except those horrors like JCL and ADA, up to and including C, C++ and C#. Also nearly 50.
I taught a Personnel Division Chief of 63 years not only how to use a computer, write E-Mail and such, but to write his own Database queries in SQL on an Oracle database. In 1986. That qualified him as a Programmer. It took the Lion's share of three weeks to teach him a job skill that he could collect $60,000/Yr for, even in Canada, even today. I was programming VCRs and Digital watches years before any teenager could afford to have access to that kind of tech.
The operative word there is 'Some'. You're making a point off a generalization. That most vampires wouldn't be like that. Caine is not most vampires. He is the vampire. The oldest of a prodigiously ageless race. Is there any particular reason why he would be the same as the rest, given that he himself is unique in the WoD?
[QUOTE=pennypincher]When you are surrounded by other Elders, paranoid, frightened, powerful monsters who are just waiting for each other to make a mistake, and you start to stand out from the others in any way... You are risking a LOT. Public mockery from an Elder can result in you being demoted to mud in the city, which is like a death sentance for an elder vampire.[/QUOTE]
Your assertion, then, is that Caine would have anything to fear from any other vampire in existence? Given your assertion that he is the the most powerful, isn't that a bit of a conundrum? How could he possibly be the most ancient and feared of all vampirekind and be the slightest bit concerned about a put-down by even an Antedeluvian? If an Elder blew him off, he could just blow them up, if he was so inclined to stoop to that.
[QUOTE=pennypincher]So, ultimatly, no... Caine... And once again I stress, the cabbie (If you are a sane, rational player of the old school paperback) is NOT Caine... Is the least likley person on the face of the planet to have a mobile phone, know how to send an email, drive a car, or even care for these things... Heck, if a creature that acient and powerful wants you to get a message, he speaks directly into your mind.[/QUOTE]
And again, your suppositions are based on false premises. Caine is not like any other Vampire in existence, and it would be a mistake to make any assumptions about him based on how other Vampires behave. This is a creature who has withstood the directed Will of God for, if biblical references are to be believed, nigh unto six Millenia. If a creature had the strength of will to withstand the Will of God for 6,000 years, what could possibly convince you that you could even guess what his motives or reasons were? No matter what the rule-set was?
Heck, he might decide to be a lingerie salesman in a Adult Store. How could you or anybody else know why? He certainly has had far more than enough time to learn how to use a bicycle, car, train, jet, space-craft, cell-phone, pager, PDA, computer, or pretty much anything else. In that time, he could have post-Doctoral degrees in every field of science that exists, and then some. In that time he could be the most powerful Wizard in creation.
Except we're not talking about 'Elder Vampires'. We're talking about the original vampire. Oh, and 'embittering'.
[QUOTE=pennypincher] Sure, some older people are quite good with modern devices, and I'm sure there are one or two sad, lonley elder vampires in the game who sit down to send an email to their old friend Baron Claudius Von Stranaverg, knowing that the Barons ghoul will print it out, re-write it in inked hand written form on old parchment and stain it slightly so as not to risk the displeasure of his acient master... But there is another side to this, the political, vampire side, that... As with all things in V:TM, shines through...[/QUOTE]
Exactly. 'Some older people'. Me, for example. Pager, Cell, PDA, currently four computers, Lead Programmer with a small, fast-moving force in the computer world, fluent in pretty much any computer language invented since 1946 except those horrors like JCL and ADA, up to and including C, C++ and C#. Also nearly 50.
I taught a Personnel Division Chief of 63 years not only how to use a computer, write E-Mail and such, but to write his own Database queries in SQL on an Oracle database. In 1986. That qualified him as a Programmer. It took the Lion's share of three weeks to teach him a job skill that he could collect $60,000/Yr for, even in Canada, even today. I was programming VCRs and Digital watches years before any teenager could afford to have access to that kind of tech.
The operative word there is 'Some'. You're making a point off a generalization. That most vampires wouldn't be like that. Caine is not most vampires. He is the vampire. The oldest of a prodigiously ageless race. Is there any particular reason why he would be the same as the rest, given that he himself is unique in the WoD?
[QUOTE=pennypincher]When you are surrounded by other Elders, paranoid, frightened, powerful monsters who are just waiting for each other to make a mistake, and you start to stand out from the others in any way... You are risking a LOT. Public mockery from an Elder can result in you being demoted to mud in the city, which is like a death sentance for an elder vampire.[/QUOTE]
Your assertion, then, is that Caine would have anything to fear from any other vampire in existence? Given your assertion that he is the the most powerful, isn't that a bit of a conundrum? How could he possibly be the most ancient and feared of all vampirekind and be the slightest bit concerned about a put-down by even an Antedeluvian? If an Elder blew him off, he could just blow them up, if he was so inclined to stoop to that.
[QUOTE=pennypincher]So, ultimatly, no... Caine... And once again I stress, the cabbie (If you are a sane, rational player of the old school paperback) is NOT Caine... Is the least likley person on the face of the planet to have a mobile phone, know how to send an email, drive a car, or even care for these things... Heck, if a creature that acient and powerful wants you to get a message, he speaks directly into your mind.[/QUOTE]
And again, your suppositions are based on false premises. Caine is not like any other Vampire in existence, and it would be a mistake to make any assumptions about him based on how other Vampires behave. This is a creature who has withstood the directed Will of God for, if biblical references are to be believed, nigh unto six Millenia. If a creature had the strength of will to withstand the Will of God for 6,000 years, what could possibly convince you that you could even guess what his motives or reasons were? No matter what the rule-set was?
Heck, he might decide to be a lingerie salesman in a Adult Store. How could you or anybody else know why? He certainly has had far more than enough time to learn how to use a bicycle, car, train, jet, space-craft, cell-phone, pager, PDA, computer, or pretty much anything else. In that time, he could have post-Doctoral degrees in every field of science that exists, and then some. In that time he could be the most powerful Wizard in creation.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
[QUOTE=pennypincher] So, ultimatly, no... Caine... And once again I stress, the cabbie (If you are a sane, rational player of the old school paperback) is NOT Caine...[/QUOTE]
can i just point out that this is not the old school paperback game. this is a computer game based on it, but doesn't necessarily follow it word for word. i agree with yrthwyndandfyre in that there is no way to predict or even say what caine would do. lets face it he can pretty much do what he likes. he might have just got bored for all we know and decided to have some fun at the expense of other vampires. and i don't think anyone can say for definate whether or not the cabbie is supposed to be caine except the programmers themselves and if you go by the game alone, a lot of clues do point in that direction.
can i just point out that this is not the old school paperback game. this is a computer game based on it, but doesn't necessarily follow it word for word. i agree with yrthwyndandfyre in that there is no way to predict or even say what caine would do. lets face it he can pretty much do what he likes. he might have just got bored for all we know and decided to have some fun at the expense of other vampires. and i don't think anyone can say for definate whether or not the cabbie is supposed to be caine except the programmers themselves and if you go by the game alone, a lot of clues do point in that direction.
Everybody seems to assume that because the Cabbie at the end might just be Caine or there is a strong suggestion from the gamemakers that might just have been Caine, that the cabbie throughout the game is this same Caine-Cabbie.
I think that is not the case or at least not the intention of the gamemakers since there are two clearly seperated directories with voice-files, one labeled "Caine" and one labeled "Cabbie". Moreover the accent is different for the "need a ride" phrase. Go on, listen to them in sequence (but not with Mediaplayer, ain't it, Yrth?
).
Yes, they look the same, but so do a lot of the random and not so random characters (e.g. think prostitutes).
This slight difference this should surely indicate that the two are meant to seperate, since in this game characters that clearly can't be the same often look & talk the same.
Now whether this Caine character is truly Caine, a Malk who thinks he's Caine or whatever, the gamemakers surely want to get us guessing and hell it worked...
I think that is not the case or at least not the intention of the gamemakers since there are two clearly seperated directories with voice-files, one labeled "Caine" and one labeled "Cabbie". Moreover the accent is different for the "need a ride" phrase. Go on, listen to them in sequence (but not with Mediaplayer, ain't it, Yrth?
).Yes, they look the same, but so do a lot of the random and not so random characters (e.g. think prostitutes).
This slight difference this should surely indicate that the two are meant to seperate, since in this game characters that clearly can't be the same often look & talk the same.
Now whether this Caine character is truly Caine, a Malk who thinks he's Caine or whatever, the gamemakers surely want to get us guessing and hell it worked...
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
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pennypincher
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The original vampire is the oldest vampire, thus he is an Elder vampire. Don't try and split hairs on such an obvious non-issue, it takes up space when pressing the "quote" button.yrthwyndandfyre wrote:Except we're not talking about 'Elder Vampires'. We're talking about the original vampire. Oh, and 'embittering'.
Your point is lost on the WoD original game however. As I said, some older people can still master new changes, but most stay mired... Exceptions only prove the rule. Worse still, vampires lose more and more of what makes them an individual as they grow older, and all begin to spiral towards the one thing they all share in common. The Beast!Exactly. 'Some older people'. Me, for example. Pager, Cell, PDA, currently four computers, Lead Programmer with a small, fast-moving force in the computer world, fluent in pretty much any computer language invented since 1946 except those horrors like JCL and ADA, up to and including C, C++ and C#. Also nearly 50.
I taught a Personnel Division Chief of 63 years not only how to use a computer, write E-Mail and such, but to write his own Database queries in SQL on an Oracle database. In 1986. That qualified him as a Programmer. It took the Lion's share of three weeks to teach him a job skill that he could collect $60,000/Yr for, even in Canada, even today. I was programming VCRs and Digital watches years before any teenager could afford to have access to that kind of tech.
The operative word there is 'Some'. You're making a point off a generalization. That most vampires wouldn't be like that. Caine is not most vampires. He is the vampire. The oldest of a prodigiously ageless race. Is there any particular reason why he would be the same as the rest, given that he himself is unique in the WoD?
As vampires grow older, they don't just reach "50", they reach "550"... Their undestanding of the world differs and White Wolf makes that very clear... In fact, in the first few pages it makes it very clear. Vampires are stuck in a festering state, they age but don't change... Even their hair can't change, they can't grow, they can't shift, and their minds become the same over time... Espeicaly as they lose connection to their humanity. The less humanity, the less interested in the changes of the human world they become. Caines is the oldest and MOST banal of all vampires... He doesn't even acept the changes of his children. Even in the book of Nod he left and burried himself away to sleep for thousands of years because his children were changing the world. He left for the land of Nod to travle and be away from people because he no longer felt for and understood them. The older a vampire gets, the less their care for, and understand the changes of the modern world...
The books really don't leave room for debate on that.
Caine might be the only exception on that issue, in that he doesn't have to face the slangs and arrows of political backstabbing because if he rolls over in his sleep and mutters something about how he hates Liberals, the entier party vanishes from the annuls of history. However, that doesn't exclude him from the experinces of the same when he was a younger vampire... In fact, so vile was the politics of his time that it STARTED the Jyhad, the secret war that rages between the most acient of vampires still in the modern ages. Politics in his time were also a lot more deadly, because there was no masquerade or police to worry about... if you fell out of favour, your children ate your soul... Ta Ta Second Generation, Hello Antedeluvians!Your assertion, then, is that Caine would have anything to fear from any other vampire in existence? Given your assertion that he is the the most powerful, isn't that a bit of a conundrum? How could he possibly be the most ancient and feared of all vampirekind and be the slightest bit concerned about a put-down by even an Antedeluvian? If an Elder blew him off, he could just blow them up, if he was so inclined to stoop to that.
Well, to clear up first of all, he hasn't "Withstood God" for all this time, he has just refused to say he was sorry... You can see the original story for more information on that, but I'm sure you already know it. Caines most basic motivations and reasons are set out in "The Book Of Nod"... Which makes it very clear that he leaves vampires society after cursing the third genertion in utter disgust of what they have done and contiue to do. Given the vampires through the ages have contiued the same war... And that we are talking about the man who refused to say "yeah sorry God, shouldn't have beaten my brother to death really"... For Six Millenia!!... Chances are he hasn't changed his opinion of vampires and the secret war any time soon.And again, your suppositions are based on false premises. Caine is not like any other Vampire in existence, and it would be a mistake to make any assumptions about him based on how other Vampires behave. This is a creature who has withstood the directed Will of God for, if biblical references are to be believed, nigh unto six Millenia. If a creature had the strength of will to withstand the Will of God for 6,000 years, what could possibly convince you that you could even guess what his motives or reasons were? No matter what the rule-set was?
In fact, if we belive the rules... And as they are White Wolfs rules, I do... He hasn't changed at all!
Except that, even if he somehow knew what lingerie was, and cared for the money of the new mortal world, he would be so far removed from the concepts of sex and females/males that he would likley envision the items as some freakish devices of bondage to hold mortals still... Remember, vampires at about 500 yeras old normaly have a humanity of about 4, and THOSE vampires havent made deals with demons, suprned God, spawned an entier race of blood drinking horrors and killed cities of other vampires by frowning at them... I imagine Caine woul be VERY close to his beast and VERY far removed from humanity.Heck, he might decide to be a lingerie salesman in a Adult Store.
Except that he's been asleep in the earth as ll the oldest vampires have for most of recorded history, having long since abandoned the need for walking and travling as mortals know it. You can argue this stuff till you are blue in the face, but White Wolf has set down the facts for us so we don't have to worry about every second story teller all over the globe having 13 different versions of the history of vampires ready incase there is a slight plot change. If you really want to see the facts of what I'm telling you... The books you want to read areHow could you or anybody else know why? He certainly has had far more than enough time to learn how to use a bicycle, car, train, jet, space-craft, cell-phone, pager, PDA, computer, or pretty much anything else. In that time, he could have post-Doctoral degrees in every field of science that exists, and then some. In that time he could be the most powerful Wizard in creation.
Elyisum: The playground of the Elders
and The Book Of Nod.
It'll clear it up and leave no doubt.
The game follows cannon when it can (short of programing issues or restrictions, like with discplines)... Trying to say it would suddenly and DRASTICLY deviate would be a little left field.mr_sir wrote:can i just point out that this is not the old school paperback game. this is a computer game based on it, but doesn't necessarily follow it word for word.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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pennypincher
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[QUOTE=Lestat]Now whether this Caine character is truly Caine, a Malk who thinks he's Caine or whatever..[/QUOTE]
Oh! while I'm at it... We looked back the other day, and the Malkavian who travles with Smiling Jack belives he is Dracular, King Of All Vampires...
Crazy for sure!
Either way, that still leaves more then enough room open for this cabbie to be that Malkavian. After all, the man gives no new informations or insight on any issue at all, quotes nothing that establishes his age or knowladge of history, and does nothing to indicate that he is anything other then a neonate who speaks with a funny acent and likes to act like he knows something about what's going on.
For example, we could do the same with cheese whiz:
PC: "I think I like cheese whiz, but I might be having too much. My heart really hurts when I move and my blood has turned bright yellow."
Cabbie: "Ah yes, cheese whiz. There was once a time when cheese flowed not from a can, but from the blistered hands of hard working mortals. What could this new metal prision mean for the cheeses future... I pray it is not as dire as what happened in the cheeses past..."
PC: "Woah, you sound heaps wise! Hey, do you think I should sel my soul to the kathayan menace and risk eternity trapped in any one of a thousand hells?"
Cabbie: "Since before man can remember, God sundered the very earth to keep east and west apart, but now that metal fish and great birds have bridged that gap, I see only the blood shed of millenia and the acient hatred the unaging always hold for their great enemies."
PC: "Wow... You've said so much, and yet... Nothing you've said is of any value! I want out of his cab! Stop the damm car!!"
Cabbie: "You have travled far with me, and I have spoken much... And the meter was running the whole time. Heed my acient wisdom, run without paying, and I'll smash your f***ing knee caps!!!"
Oh! while I'm at it... We looked back the other day, and the Malkavian who travles with Smiling Jack belives he is Dracular, King Of All Vampires...
Crazy for sure!
Either way, that still leaves more then enough room open for this cabbie to be that Malkavian. After all, the man gives no new informations or insight on any issue at all, quotes nothing that establishes his age or knowladge of history, and does nothing to indicate that he is anything other then a neonate who speaks with a funny acent and likes to act like he knows something about what's going on.
For example, we could do the same with cheese whiz:
PC: "I think I like cheese whiz, but I might be having too much. My heart really hurts when I move and my blood has turned bright yellow."
Cabbie: "Ah yes, cheese whiz. There was once a time when cheese flowed not from a can, but from the blistered hands of hard working mortals. What could this new metal prision mean for the cheeses future... I pray it is not as dire as what happened in the cheeses past..."
PC: "Woah, you sound heaps wise! Hey, do you think I should sel my soul to the kathayan menace and risk eternity trapped in any one of a thousand hells?"
Cabbie: "Since before man can remember, God sundered the very earth to keep east and west apart, but now that metal fish and great birds have bridged that gap, I see only the blood shed of millenia and the acient hatred the unaging always hold for their great enemies."
PC: "Wow... You've said so much, and yet... Nothing you've said is of any value! I want out of his cab! Stop the damm car!!"
Cabbie: "You have travled far with me, and I have spoken much... And the meter was running the whole time. Heed my acient wisdom, run without paying, and I'll smash your f***ing knee caps!!!"
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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yrthwyndandfyre
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[QUOTE=pennypincher]
Elyisum: The playground of the Elders
and The Book Of Nod.
It'll clear it up and leave no doubt.
[/QUOTE]
We have a couple of those P&P stores. I'll pick up a copy and find out precisely what they do say.
Elyisum: The playground of the Elders
and The Book Of Nod.
It'll clear it up and leave no doubt.
[/QUOTE]
We have a couple of those P&P stores. I'll pick up a copy and find out precisely what they do say.
Sic gorgiamos allos subjectatos nunc
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
(The Addams family motto: Gladly we feast on those who would subdue us)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with Ketchup.
-
pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
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- Contact:
[QUOTE=yrthwyndandfyre]We have a couple of those P&P stores. I'll pick up a copy and find out precisely what they do say.[/QUOTE]
Cool. Hey, make sure to read the opening letter in Elyisum. It's really a "Here are your Elders on a platter, and it's NOT nice..." reminder... That, and the ending is chillingly hilarious.
Cool. Hey, make sure to read the opening letter in Elyisum. It's really a "Here are your Elders on a platter, and it's NOT nice..." reminder... That, and the ending is chillingly hilarious.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
Cant believe I read most of those.
Wanted to add a few things.
According to WW and my understanding of the offical story, and how it fits in game.
SPOLIERS POSSSIBLE ONLY IF I AM RIGHT, if wrong this was a just a dream.
BTW I will be kinda generalising.
SPOILERS DONT LOOK BELOW!
Caine is/was (during this game) in self imposed exsile, sealed in a cave.
He is released by Becket, (after the events of the game) whom is unaware of Caine's idenity.
Becket just sees Caine just as an old man.
Caine chooses to walk/travel with Becket because Becket's quest for the truth gives Canie the knowledge that some beings/vampires were worthy and should be allowed to live.
Another reason Caine is different from every other vamps is he never died,
so auras, stagnation or aging dont not work or apply.
Basicly if vamp met Caine you would see/think/feel/do/say/believe anything he wanted you to, IF he wanted you to.
He is so powerful he has no need to fear any vamp or mortal.
It is quite possible Caine has been conscious of events of the world, certianly possible of vamps, not sure how much Caine is concerened about humans, his torment is more over vamps.
Caine could (secretly) be apart of vamp culture, telepathicly (lack of a better description at 5am) and be responsible for the uneasy feeling to those whom are not allied with Caine's beliefs.
If he oversees and directs thru his interventions it is possible if the cabbie is Caine.
Not Caine in the same sense as Jack being there or Becket, nor the cab ride.
It is quite possible it is the image, Caine has choosen for you to see and understand.
This is the best I could think of that would satisfy all sides at 5am, this way it can be Caine and still fit WW and the game.
If you have not played a Malk in the game, you are missing alot of dialog and story not revealed to other characters.
Even the physic on the beach was not sure if it was the father, thou the Malk is very clear thru out the game.
Smiling Jack is about 200 years old, Becket is 200 or 300 (having a brain fart) (actually so is Lacroix) they could have known each other but it is rather obvious they do not have common intrest, to hang out.
So they could be maybe 7th Gen?
Remember in the story we flatout resist and laugh in Lacroix's face when he tries to Dominate us.
There are only a couple of possiblites here, either we are a from a more powerful generation or someone is protecting us.
Almost every significant encounter has our character being told or shown how much more powerful they are than ordinary.
So much so that each of the most powerful Elders iin the game comment on it, not to mention the physic saying "She pities anyone whom stands in our way".
It is not random we are so powerful.
Oh back on topic, who sent the emails?
My guess is:
Trokia, it is a rhetorical (?) device?
According to the one year aniversery Q&A with bmitsoda/Dev (think thats where I remember reading), even the physic on the beach was added so you would not get it until you had finished the game.
The only possible ingame NPC that could have done it would be the cabbie, he comes closest to speaking like that.
The reason the cabbie is not a Malk you just have to listen to him talk.
The reason Jack didnt send the emails is Jack does not think or or talk in chess metaphors.
It makes me laugh to think of Jack talking like that, it would be more like "Yo mother foker, it's face to pavment gridning time" :laugh:
Wanted to add a few things.
According to WW and my understanding of the offical story, and how it fits in game.
SPOLIERS POSSSIBLE ONLY IF I AM RIGHT, if wrong this was a just a dream.
BTW I will be kinda generalising.
SPOILERS DONT LOOK BELOW!
Caine is/was (during this game) in self imposed exsile, sealed in a cave.
He is released by Becket, (after the events of the game) whom is unaware of Caine's idenity.
Becket just sees Caine just as an old man.
Caine chooses to walk/travel with Becket because Becket's quest for the truth gives Canie the knowledge that some beings/vampires were worthy and should be allowed to live.
Another reason Caine is different from every other vamps is he never died,
so auras, stagnation or aging dont not work or apply.
Basicly if vamp met Caine you would see/think/feel/do/say/believe anything he wanted you to, IF he wanted you to.
He is so powerful he has no need to fear any vamp or mortal.
It is quite possible Caine has been conscious of events of the world, certianly possible of vamps, not sure how much Caine is concerened about humans, his torment is more over vamps.
Caine could (secretly) be apart of vamp culture, telepathicly (lack of a better description at 5am) and be responsible for the uneasy feeling to those whom are not allied with Caine's beliefs.
If he oversees and directs thru his interventions it is possible if the cabbie is Caine.
Not Caine in the same sense as Jack being there or Becket, nor the cab ride.
It is quite possible it is the image, Caine has choosen for you to see and understand.
This is the best I could think of that would satisfy all sides at 5am, this way it can be Caine and still fit WW and the game.
If you have not played a Malk in the game, you are missing alot of dialog and story not revealed to other characters.
Even the physic on the beach was not sure if it was the father, thou the Malk is very clear thru out the game.
Smiling Jack is about 200 years old, Becket is 200 or 300 (having a brain fart) (actually so is Lacroix) they could have known each other but it is rather obvious they do not have common intrest, to hang out.
So they could be maybe 7th Gen?
Remember in the story we flatout resist and laugh in Lacroix's face when he tries to Dominate us.
There are only a couple of possiblites here, either we are a from a more powerful generation or someone is protecting us.
Almost every significant encounter has our character being told or shown how much more powerful they are than ordinary.
So much so that each of the most powerful Elders iin the game comment on it, not to mention the physic saying "She pities anyone whom stands in our way".
It is not random we are so powerful.
Oh back on topic, who sent the emails?
My guess is:
Trokia, it is a rhetorical (?) device?
According to the one year aniversery Q&A with bmitsoda/Dev (think thats where I remember reading), even the physic on the beach was added so you would not get it until you had finished the game.
The only possible ingame NPC that could have done it would be the cabbie, he comes closest to speaking like that.
The reason the cabbie is not a Malk you just have to listen to him talk.
The reason Jack didnt send the emails is Jack does not think or or talk in chess metaphors.
It makes me laugh to think of Jack talking like that, it would be more like "Yo mother foker, it's face to pavment gridning time" :laugh:
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Well, despite not dying, Caine is, in all other ways, a vampire... And as such is vunerable to the same banality and stagnation as any of them. He is unaging and unchanging...
Also, it can't be an issue of your Generation being better then the Prince, as he CAN Dominate you early in the game, but can't latter... Maybe Strauss slips a Blood Thurmaturgical Ritual on you at some time without you knowing... Does anyone remember taking any gifts from him or letting him shake your hand or walking into a glowing circle or dancing faire lights?
Otherwise, I don't see any problems with the whole theory... I espeicaly like the idea of the Pirate Smiling Jack playing chess with you...
"Might I suggest a new strategy? Let the homicidal vampire win!"
Also, it can't be an issue of your Generation being better then the Prince, as he CAN Dominate you early in the game, but can't latter... Maybe Strauss slips a Blood Thurmaturgical Ritual on you at some time without you knowing... Does anyone remember taking any gifts from him or letting him shake your hand or walking into a glowing circle or dancing faire lights?
Otherwise, I don't see any problems with the whole theory... I espeicaly like the idea of the Pirate Smiling Jack playing chess with you...
"Might I suggest a new strategy? Let the homicidal vampire win!"
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
"he CAN Dominate you early in the game, but can't latter"
Really, never heard of or experienced this?
What clan did you play or how did you reach that dialogue option/point?
"vunerable to the same banality and stagnation as any of them. He is unaging and unchanging..."
Well can certianly can disagree
The whole idea that WW seems to imply with Caine wanting to accompany Becket in his travels is to learn and understand so he can pass judgement, accuratly/fairly.
This to me implies he does not stand on outdated principles which Caine seems to accually punish in his Judgement.
Really, never heard of or experienced this?
What clan did you play or how did you reach that dialogue option/point?
"vunerable to the same banality and stagnation as any of them. He is unaging and unchanging..."
Well can certianly can disagree
The whole idea that WW seems to imply with Caine wanting to accompany Becket in his travels is to learn and understand so he can pass judgement, accuratly/fairly.
This to me implies he does not stand on outdated principles which Caine seems to accually punish in his Judgement.
Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language...they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Yeah, to the best of my knowladge, it doesn't matter which clan you play... All you need to do is deny the Prince any time he gives you a mission. At the end, he'll Dominate you into obeying.
Out of interest, where does Caine start following Beckett? Clan Novles? Gehenna? I know in one of the four endings Caine walks around talking to neonates... And that honestly sickened me! White Wolf suddenly back flipping on everything they had said about Caine and saying that he's up and developed a love of the new world and Vampires. However, I wasn't impressed with any of the endings, the worst being The Throne Of God...
Thousands of years of cunning Jyhad, subtle manipulation, working their blood lines like a game of chess against one another... Only to one day get up and decide just to hit each other untill everyones dead. Made me sad... This is my sad face
But yeah, we can agree to disagree... Well, you know.
Out of interest, where does Caine start following Beckett? Clan Novles? Gehenna? I know in one of the four endings Caine walks around talking to neonates... And that honestly sickened me! White Wolf suddenly back flipping on everything they had said about Caine and saying that he's up and developed a love of the new world and Vampires. However, I wasn't impressed with any of the endings, the worst being The Throne Of God...
Thousands of years of cunning Jyhad, subtle manipulation, working their blood lines like a game of chess against one another... Only to one day get up and decide just to hit each other untill everyones dead. Made me sad... This is my sad face
But yeah, we can agree to disagree... Well, you know.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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The Balance
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:18 am
- Location: Islands of Langerhans
- Contact:
Which are the four endings you are talking about?Originally posted by pennypincher [...]
I know in one of the four endings Caine walks around talking to neonates...
I have beaten the game a lot of time but i can't remember an ending in which Caine talks to neonates ...
:speech: The suspence is killing me!:speech:
Sapientis est nihil facere quod se paenitere possit !
The Balance
Solem e mundo tollere mihi videor qui amicitiam a vita tollunt ! 
Non exiguum temporis habemus, sed multum perdimus. :mischief: