Book of Vile Darkness (the suppliment)

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:46 pm

Hi all,

I recently started [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70884"]this thread[/url] in the FR section because I am considering starting an evil Underdark campaign.

Consequently, this weekend I went to my local Barnes and Noble to maybe consider buying a little reading. After being (a) dissappointed by the lousy selection (it is a huge store on 59th street in NYC, for goodness' sake!) and (b) shocked by the sticker price of D&D suppliments now ($32.50!

are you freaking joking!?!)... I bought the Book of Vile Darkenss (hereafter called BoVD).

I'll admit, a big reason I bought it was that the other, more relevant supplements weren't available. However, I have to say that my impression of the BoVD after a few days is incredibly positive. Evil is a hugely important factor in any rpg, but especially one as manichean as D&D. However, I think it has gotten short shrift in the past. As a (relatively) mature gamer (at age 23), I think that the BoVD is very well done. It deals with taboo topics (like sacrifice, addiction, and torture) that are a huge part of what evil characters do but that are typically not discussed in any depth.

Anyway, that's my proverbial two cents. I thought I would throw it out there to other gamers (esp. other DMs, as it is a DM reference book) and see what others thought. Does anyone else use the book? Do you like it?

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:53 pm

As a DM, I like to be able to confront the party with new spells, or creepy atmospheric evil, so I find the book beneficial. The entries about the demon princes and lords of hell and their cults are also handy, as they provide ideas for the motivations of evil groups in a campaign beyond just "crush, kill, destroy".

On the other hand, one of the idiots I play with bought the book and the only use he makes of it is to have every one of his characters addicted to devilweed, and then he plays his characters as if they were potheads, or Towely from South Park.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:36 pm

Wizard Disciple of Asmodeus any day of my life man, the book is great.

Compared to Champions of Ruin even (the BOVD Forgotten Realms equivelant), it's not as good.

You got drugs, vile machines, some really evil spells (personal favorite, the one where you attack someone with a spell and their loved one feels the pain), decent, and I mean decent prestige classes, and of course, the Archdevils.

Love it all man.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:20 pm

@Sib

So, you think that Champions of Ruin compares favorably? One of the big reasons I chose the BoVD is because it was written by Monte Cook, a bonafide D&D oldschooler. I thought that he was about as qualified as anyone to write about the more abstract ideas of Evil and not make it too campy or macabre- really, writing about the dynamics of torture and drug addiction in a came is a tough assignment.

So... if I do want to run an evil Undercampaign, would recommend Champs of Ruin? I think that the Underdark book is basically a must, as is probably the War of the Spider Queen Adventure. Other than that though... I'm trying to target my book buying because of past experience*

(* I digress- in the past, I played a lot. I bought a ton of 2nd Ed suppliments. Hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth. This is no small feat for a 15-17 year old, btw. However, in hindsight I think that the more books I got, the more problems I had- too much to read, too many variant rules, not enough similar books between the players and the dm, etc. So, this time, I want a few books as a base that I really know and can use, and other than that, just go with it. [/digression])

So... other ideas? Is Champs of Ruin worth buying since I have the BoVD? Geez... I feel like such a noob...

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:27 pm

No, champions of ruins is awful. It's a total rip off of BoVD.

Not worth your money.

Then again, I'm for classic stuff and not new things, so it's my opinion vs yours. Go to amazon.com, I'm sure they have a few pages or so of the book as a sample, maybe.

Anyways, I loved all the stuff they made pretty much until the Dungeon Master's Guide Two. Total marketing, no thought in the actual book itself (and I read it left to right for gods sake).

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:44 pm

I don't have the BoVD but I have flipped through it. I have already stated in another post somewhere that I don't care much for 3rd edition but I was impressed by the BoVD. Wish we had that in my day...we just had to make stuff up on our own back then...

Oskatat · Post by **Oskatat** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:50 am

i like the instructions on sacrifices, which can actualy be turned around to good too, though I wouldn't recommend the same thing as sacrifice, eg fruit instead of heart
The drug section gives you tons of options to crush stupid drug users. One of the nastiest spells is 'addiction'
Hive mind is particulary usefull, especialy in combo with vermin lords
and that reptilian/demonic race seems very powerfull...

Tarl the Wicked · Post by **Tarl the Wicked** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:46 pm

BoVD

I'm with Pellinore on Third edition. I usually play a bastard version of 1st edition. We rob from all the other editions the parts we like and toss the rest. I picked up the Book of Vile Darkness at Dragon Con last year, and thought it had some pretty good stuff. Unfortunantly some of our evil campaigns make it pretty tame and I had to ramp up some of the bad guys, o well/ They say the rules are just guidlines

Oskatat · Post by **Oskatat** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:20 pm

and they are

I still hope someday to have a player who is evil without being a psychotic mass murderer and luckily BoVD actualy gives hints and tips on that too

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:05 pm

[QUOTE=Oskatat]I still hope someday to have a player who is evil without being a psychotic mass murderer and luckily BoVD actualy gives hints and tips on that too[/QUOTE]
That's exactly why I like the BoVD- it adds depth and realism to evil. The really creepy bad guys are the ones that are calculating, motivating, and that you don't really know what to expect from them... For this campaign I'm considering, I want my players to be evil, but not cookie-cutter psychopaths (that gets old real quick)

Oskatat · Post by **Oskatat** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:26 pm

the best evil guy is one who simply does what is well... neccessairy. he might kill, or order someone killed, or a village, without remorse, but dont do anything else bad, and give to charity