KOTOR vs. KOTOR 2 (SPOILERS)

Mandalorianx · Post by **Mandalorianx** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:42 pm

as you sad reaper you get to know more about revan,malak and the mandalorian war. like a history leson but more fun:laugh:

when kotor II came i was hoping that we still was revan,as the dark lord of the sith in quest to take over the galaxy,whit bastila by your side and then kill what that is left of the jedi order.

The Reaper · Post by **The Reaper** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:18 am

I didn't really think too much about KOTOR II. I just wanted it... KOTOR I was soo good, I enjoyed it much. Mainly because it was nothing like any other Star Wars game I've played and I've played a few. When I did get KOTOR II I was surprised it did as well as KOTOR I. Normally, when you get to a sequal it's not as good - a game just put together just because the first did so well. But it wasn't like that for me. It had yet another original story and still surprised me at the end of the game like in KOTOR I.

The only thing I didn't quite like about KOTOR II is the Force bond you had with Kreia... It was too much like the Force bond with Bastila in KOTOR I. I didn't mind it, but I thought it was too close to KOTOR I in that aspect.

But all around KOTOR I and II are two of my favourite games in my XBOX game collection.

Bryn · Post by **Bryn** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:40 pm

Warning: long essay ahead...

Okay, okay, so those of us in the (original) KotOR camp are all philistines. We like predictable plot lines and hackneyed characters, and we are too naive to recognize them as such. Those in the KotOR 2 crowd, however, are highbrows who pretend to understand nonsense, calling plots that fall apart "engrossing in their complexity" and boring or confusingly incomplete characters "intriguingly deep." Tone can be difficult to convey through writing, so I'm just going to say now that I mean no offense to either party, as I really do enjoy both games. While I think that KotOR II may have been the better game, I found the original KotOR to be the more enjoyable gaming experience, as I said in a previous post. I'll add to my list of reasons here.

Now I'll just go right out and admit that I fell for the whole KotOR plot twist thing. Yes, I'm gullible, and all I can offer in my defense is that I'd most recently played Neverwinter Nights (apologies to both KotOR 1 and 2 for even making this comparison), where you really are just a random student in an academy who is simply lucky enough to survive. The problem with KotOR II was that there really was nothing to fall for. All of the "revelations" are things you basically never could have guessed... for good reason. While in KotOR, a revelation makes you go "Ah, that makes so much sense!" in KotOR II, any revelation leaves you saying "Huh?”

RPGs are, by definition, about role playing. Choices are important in role playing, and I'll admit that KotOR II was stronger in that aspect. However, I think another crucial part of role playing, and of writing a character or acting for that matter, is knowing and understanding the character. The beautiful thing about the way the KotOR plot was constructed is that you always know what your character knows, so you can have a history and a personality. I started KotOR as a scoundrel, and I had this whole back story in my mind of how my character came to be a soldier on the Endar Spire. To give you an idea, it involved parents' early deaths, being sold into slavery, escaping with a smuggler who taught me everything she knew, living as a well-meaning smuggler (no, not so noble as Robin Hood--please!--but still nice), and eventually joining in the war effort against the Sith. Yeah, I know, as if KotOR wasn't already cliched enough. I imagined my character telling this back story to Carth and Mission, and admitting that it was about as cliched a past as you could imagine, but defending that things are cliched because they often happen. But after the truth was revealed on the Leviathan, my character realized that the past of her memories was not cliched because things like that happen, but because the Jedi who programmed her memories couldn't think of anything more creative! There was then the conflict between still having those memories, and thus a drive to stay on the light side, and knowing my true past was that of the dark lord Revan... What is most important in defining who we are? Memories? Truth? Okay, so I feel like a complete geek saying all of that... but then, we're all checking out this forum, aren't we?

The point is that I knew my character--her past and her personality--and it worked.

In contrast, in KotOR II you have to learn what your character knows through conversations; as your character says "I left the Order a while ago", you the player say "Wait, I’m not a Jedi anymore?” While KotOR II gave my character far more choices in choosing his/her path, being left in the dark in regards to my character's memories made it very difficult for me to understand my character and her choices. When I was dark side, I was left wondering, "Why am I being bad?" When I was light side, I wondered, "Why is my character so good?" My character was devoid of meaningful personality... not unlike in NWN (ouch!).

I know my reasons listed here are really largely personal opinions rather than indisputable facts about gameplay, but seeing as I’m just trying to defend my opinion, they should be valid. Basically, I think KotOR II tried too hard, asked too much, and fell apart (the whole not-enough-time issue), and I just didn't care. KotOR was fun and simply clean.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:00 pm

i'd have to go 50-50 on this one. i really like both games. the story was better in kotor 1 (i loved the plot twist when you find out you are revan) but the gameplay in kotor 2 is better (in my opinion). i liked the more customisable items, the extra jedi robes/armour etc, your own personal crystal so your lightsaber really was unique to you. i also loved the whole palace raid/rescue on onderon. the thing that let it down was that it tried to be too complex with the story and ended up with a quite confusing storyline. the main problem with the story is that they had to rush the ending. if the game had been completed with everything that was supposed to be in it, then it would have surpassed kotor1, but it wasn't. once the TSL restoration project is finished, i honestly think kotor 2 would be the better game overall.

element_leaf · Post by **element_leaf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:32 pm

I liked KOTOR 1 because of Bastila. But yeah, KOTOR 2 has more of a game. Also, remember BioWare said they wanted the game to be more like a movie. I've been hearing about being "normal" for 3. If you want that play Battlefront 1-2.

firesong100 · Post by **firesong100** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:42 pm

So far I like the first one better, mainly because it is complete. There is a TSL Restoration project going on which plans on restoring some of the cut elements of the second game. I have been following their efforts from their website, and it seems to me that if they are able to complete this task and do it well, then TSL could be a much better game.

TSL has moments in which it gets me drawn in emotionally, usually with the good musical score, especially at the Jedi Enclave on Dantoine.
FS

Kayos · Post by **Kayos** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:24 pm

where can i find said website for restoration? ive never heard of anything like that before and id like to check it out. could you link me up?

KotOR I because it was personal and got my heart pounding. the second one... not so much. it was still fun to play tho. now, if they could somehow squash the two games together... (not plot wise... holy cow would that be confusing? but element wise like with the influence thing)

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:47 pm

have a look here. there are some patches you can download already, but the main bulk of it is still not finished : http://www.team-gizka.org/

the more i play kotor2 i am actually beginning to prefer it to kotor1 now as i understand the story so much more now than i did my first run through. as a finished product, kotor1 is still a lot better though

edit: i was always under the impression the influence thing was due to the exile's 'special ability' so i don't think they could have it quite the same way, but conversation choices and actions should definately still have an effect on your crew (that is one thing i think kotor1 really lacks as you can pretty much say or do what you want with no major consequences as far as your crew are concerned, regarding how they treat you)

Kayos · Post by **Kayos** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:35 am

thank ya muchly. and as always... i agree. like maybe not the actual influence thing... but something along the same lines. that just made the game a whole lot more fun. but i still prefer the 1st to the 2nd

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:56 am

Yes, KOTOR II could really have been something, it was set up for a great storyline and Character development, but those bastard officials just wanted the money!

I hope i'm allowed to do this, but here is a team dedicated to fixing up all the holes in KOTOR.

I voted the first myself, because although II has a more interesting perspective and game interface, It was definately the superior in plot and character develpment, which makes all the difference.

firesong100 · Post by **firesong100** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:33 am

Yes, I was referring to Team Gizka. I didn't know if I was allowed to post hyperlinks here, so I played it safe. Right now they have some patches, and they are working on restoring the lost droid planet.

KOtOR is the first video game I have played in a very long time. (I used to play SNES) It's a shame the way they slapped together the second game like that. TSL has a ton of potential, if they'd only taken their time and finished it, it might have been so good as to blow the first one away.

I likes TSL's interface a lot better, I liked the influence idea-it really helps out a lot when your character goes light or dark to have more of your team in alignment with you.But each planet on KOtOR had a complete story arc. On TSL it seemed to me that only Pragus had a complete story arc. Telos came close.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:36 am

[QUOTE=RBitG]I hope i'm allowed to do this, but here is a team dedicated to fixing up all the holes in KOTOR.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's allowed. You're not linking an ad, another forum, or anything irrelevant to the game. In fact, we appreciate updates from fans who are doing their best to make interesting mods or flesh out details left unfinished by the original developers.

robertsmithseek · Post by **robertsmithseek** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:55 pm

they both rock

kotor has the tight story and the char interaction to die for and the plot twist rocks but the charcter building is limited.

while kotor2 has awsome charcter building and a huge building under plot
the story kinda sucks i mean you see the big twist from the frist time you meet her

they both rock but for diffrent reasons its like the diffrence between
star trek and star trek tng is just the duality of the concept

TxGamer007 · Post by **TxGamer007** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:18 pm

KOTOR 2 has a much darker storyline and plenty of new features but there is always the first, here is how they match up:

KOTOR KOTOR 2
NPC's 7 8
Storyline 9 7
Feats 8 7
Force Powers 8 8
Maps 8 6
Level Cap 7 10
Weapons 7 9
Armor 8 8
Worlds 8 7
OVERALL 9 8

Alcina · Post by **Alcina** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:01 am

It's been 6 months since I started playing the games, and my experience has changed.

I played KOTOR through 3 times, once as LS, once as DS and once to try to do every possible thing. Since then, I've felt almost no desire to play it again. I've started a couple of times, but got too bored to continue, usually on Manaan.

KOTOR2, however has the kind of replayability that I've only known in half a dozen games. There are 3 reasons why KOTOR bores after a while but KOTOR2 doesn't:

1) KOTOR2 has random items; in KOTOR you get the same gear every time, so you always have the same stuff (the best available) equipped at the same point in the game. There's no anticipation, or happiness when you obtain something really good.

2) The level cap. Why bother taking the trouble to get more XP, when you'll end up the same level in the end.

3) Above all, the fact that when you've played KOTOR a couple of times you realise that there is a single 'best order' to do things in(especially in which to go to the planets. Choose any other and you cannot complete every quest), and the choice of how you carry out a quest is basically just a matter of choosing Light or Dark. IN KOTOR2, every path through the game has advantages and drawbacks. Getting INF may mess up your alignment; these have to be balanced against maximum XP, good items have to be balanced against picking up characters in time to finish their storylines...

My feeling now is that KOTOR2 is a wreck, but it is the wreck of quite possibly the best game every written. I can only imagine how compelling it would be if the later planets/events had been fully developed...

Mandalorianx · Post by **Mandalorianx** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:28 am

what i hate about k1 is that you can do the game in 12 hours just to do the mainquest...but in k2 you can use 2-4 days just on the main quest.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:59 am

kotor2 by an eyelash.

kotor2 did a better job of forcing the player to make decisions, even with something simple like "extra" items - there is a careful balance between keeping enough decent items to have your party equipped, enough cash on hand, and breaking down into components.

i loved the fact that most everything could be customized (though i wish there was some way to either re-name some items or tag them in some way)

there was also a nice balance between pc focused encounters and side adventures where an npc or more are forced into lead roles.

influence also called for tough choices as many others have said.

--

that being said i'm not a huge fan of kotor2's pc creation, i liked kotor's start as a "normal" class and get promoted to jedi fairly soon, when compared to start as jedi w/o any powers then become a prestige class. the exile never felt much like my "avatar" when compared to my pc in kotor1 (or in general my pcs in any number of rpg's)

--

however the kotor1 ending was much better, kotor2 just seems to end. i would have preferred to interact w/ the party more after all is said and done, at the very least something more than the ride off into the sunset.

minor spoilers...

as an example handmaiden and the pc have their big moment upon the return to telos (i suppose disciple would have a similar moment here but that's just a guess), but then everything goes full throttle towards the end, whatever "relationship" was building to that point of trust gets moved to the back burner and never gets picked up again.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:58 pm

KOTOR 1 still better than KOTOR 2 in my opinion

I have to agree that KOTOR 1 is better than KOTOR 2 as, according to what most people here say, the storyline in KOTOR is more complete than KOTOR 2.

KOTOR 2's ending seems to have left the story hanging, and just begs for a sequel. After playing the first KOTOR, the story doesn't seem in any need of a sequel, in my opinion.

The combat in KOTOR 2 feels more solid than KOTOR 1 plus the character interaction and the complexity of the plot compared to KOTOR but still, the characters in KOTOR seems to be more memorable than no 2.

My beef with the KOTOR 2's character interaction is the influence system. Not that I don't like it, its good but when you try to interact with characters with the opposite alignment, its going to be pretty hard and you're going to lose influence with them eventually.

That's all I have to say so far.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:10 pm

My 2 cents Kotor - 1 of the best games ever played Kotor 2 - waste of money
caution extreme spoilers ahead

1st off Swoop racing was alot better in #1 I get random bugs where the swoop will hover off the ground ( alot higher than normal) and it's next to impossible because you and the opponent tend to cross paths in a tricky obstacle

2nd Compare the tutorial in #1 and #2 the american accent voice of god guideing you through, spoils the atmosphere

3rd compare Taris to the asteroid: bounty hunting, hutts, dueling ring,
rancor, sense of purpose to hey lets hack through a mile of lame robots to get access to the room next door weeeee

4th it takes how long to get a lightsaber in #2 ??!!!! IIRC the asteroid telos and most of nar shaada my first "choice" planet were spent without Lightsaber

5th Random items some things like robes should be available with every major merchant I happen to like dark Jedi robes even when playing good for the return of the jedi luke skywalker look

6th lets not enough lightsaber fights the enemies are wierd insect creatures

7th the plot simply confused me at first I thought krea was a freind and then she turns out to be the last boss her entire character confused me. on the plot note it sucked big time compared to the jaw dropping "revelation" aboard the leviathan

8th the fact that some areas you can't play as your char I love challanges but why do I have to play with NPC's I hate none of the NPC really inspire freindship and as a powerful jedi I'd rather see myself overcoming obstacles than getting my ass whipped like some stray dog (1 thing they got right was when you use the force to detoxify your body at the nightclub on nar shaada)

9th does anybody in any star wars movie get a blue or red aura any time they get a good or bad deed ? music to that effect would have been sufficient and the kotor 1 system of deforming your face when your heavy ds does fine as well.

10 they could have at least kept the layout of sith academy the same it was dug in rock so it's not like they could just change the layout. on that note korriban seems to be there just so it can say on the box revisit your favorite places from kotor 1 no academy no npc's and no jedi lame

11th whats with the guy thats invincible on korriban lightsabers disintegrate flesh with the amount of punishment he took from me all his tissues would be converted to atoms

12th I'm all goody goody two shoes and those lame jedi decide to "strip" the force from me and again kick my ass requireing krayas intervention it would have been nice to teach them a leson myself considering I was level 2X at the time

and all the bugs that they have not managed to iron out. the only good things were the improved skill/feat system more extensive lightsaber upgrades and a higher level cap I hope Bioware makes #3 obsidian sucks

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:23 am

The last time I posted here, I kind of forgot to mention the random item system in KOTOR 2. It irritates me whenever you have to constantly reload your last save just to get your desired item. I still prefer that the item will be set there and not change.

[Quote=Jedi_Sauraus]
11th whats with the guy thats invincible on korriban lightsabers disintegrate flesh with the amount of punishment he took from me all his tissues would be converted to atoms.[/Quote]

Yeah, kind of wondered that myself but what do you expect from an RPG?

[Quote=Jedi_Sauraus]
12th I'm all goody goody two shoes and those lame jedi decide to "strip" the force from me and again kick my ass requireing krayas intervention it would have been nice to teach them a leson myself considering I was level 2X at the time.[/Quote]

I was wondering about that too. You went all the way to save their butts and the thanks they give you is to strip you of the Force? Man, makes me feel like knocking their heads to the wall or Tommy gun them and watch them dance in a hail of bullets just to teach them a lesson.:laugh:

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KOTOR vs. KOTOR 2 (SPOILERS)

Which do you prefer?