deathlord question
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Damn Snakes!
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deathlord question
In the CE - you are required to have heavy armor 10, heavy sheild 10 before you can quest for deathlord... but a Marauder doesn't get heavy armor or heavy shield skills... so, I would have to have a secondary character with these skills in order to advance to deathlord (such as paladin...) which would mean we could never have a ninja-deathlord (which happens to be the exact deathlord called up by the nether-spell... hmmm... or am I wrong?
[QUOTE=Damn Snakes!]In the CE - you are required to have heavy armor 10, heavy sheild 10 before you can quest for deathlord... but a Marauder doesn't get heavy armor or heavy shield skills... so, I would have to have a secondary character with these skills in order to advance to deathlord (such as paladin...) which would mean we could never have a ninja-deathlord (which happens to be the exact deathlord called up by the nether-spell... hmmm... or am I wrong?[/QUOTE]
Doesn't Marauder get heavy armor and shields now in the CE? With 1.3 and before Marauder didn't get heavy armor but I think he does now. But the problem you would have with ninja-deathlord would be the cost of raising your heavy skills. They are very very expensive with out a bonus from both second tier classes. The deathlord you conjure seems nothing like the deathlord class; no heavy armor, no dual weapons. He’s more like a ninja lord. D
Doesn't Marauder get heavy armor and shields now in the CE? With 1.3 and before Marauder didn't get heavy armor but I think he does now. But the problem you would have with ninja-deathlord would be the cost of raising your heavy skills. They are very very expensive with out a bonus from both second tier classes. The deathlord you conjure seems nothing like the deathlord class; no heavy armor, no dual weapons. He’s more like a ninja lord. D
Nope.ferncliff wrote:Doesn't Marauder get heavy armor and shields now in the CE?
Even when I took paladin in my other class line (giving me "heavy" bonuses from that and adept), it still took a lot of experience to meet the requirements for deathlord. Deathlord is the toughest class to get currently.But the problem you would have with ninja-deathlord would be the cost of raising your heavy skills. They are very very expensive with out a bonus from both second tier classes.
SWC
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
[QUOTE=swcarter]Nope.
Even when I took paladin in my other class line (giving me "heavy" bonuses from that and adept), it still took a lot of experience to meet the requirements for deathlord. Deathlord is the toughest class to get currently.
SWC[/QUOTE]
You know what's funny about this is way back when with 1.3 I wrote you and said the walkthrough was wrong and Marauder didn't get heavy armor. Not sure if you believed me then or changed the walkthrough. But anyhow I just ran a character to Arindale and finished the Marauder quest with 1.5 and I did get heavy armor, heavy weapons and heavy shields.
Of the half dozen times we have disagreed you were probably up by 5 but on this one i think you're mistaken :speech: .
If marauder didn't get heavy armor and weapons the boards would be a buzz with "I can't meet the requirements for deathlord!" . D
Even when I took paladin in my other class line (giving me "heavy" bonuses from that and adept), it still took a lot of experience to meet the requirements for deathlord. Deathlord is the toughest class to get currently.
SWC[/QUOTE]
You know what's funny about this is way back when with 1.3 I wrote you and said the walkthrough was wrong and Marauder didn't get heavy armor. Not sure if you believed me then or changed the walkthrough. But anyhow I just ran a character to Arindale and finished the Marauder quest with 1.5 and I did get heavy armor, heavy weapons and heavy shields.
Of the half dozen times we have disagreed you were probably up by 5 but on this one i think you're mistaken :speech: .
If marauder didn't get heavy armor and weapons the boards would be a buzz with "I can't meet the requirements for deathlord!" . D
Ferncliff's right, marauders get heavy armor and heavy shields as well as heavy weapons. I've corrected the class page.
SW
SW
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
[QUOTE=swcarter]Ferncliff's right, marauders get heavy armor and heavy shields as well as heavy weapons. I've corrected the class page.
SW[/QUOTE]
It's important to note that Marauder's do get heavy armor and shield, but don't get the learning bonuses for those skills. That's why it's so difficult to get those skills to level 10.
I recently played a Fighter/Adept/Celestial/Marauder/Deathlord. It took me till about level 42 to finish all the prereqs for Deathlord. I did have a rocking Lightning skill and decent Shards level though.
And, it was quite a surprise when the DL armor dropped!
PS I checked the class list and noticed that it doesn't distinguish between which levels of armor, shield, and weapon skills get learning bonuses. For instance, Maurauder doesn't specifically note that only light and medium armor and shield get bonuses. The same goes for armor, shield, and weapon for fighters. SWC, do you think these variations can be added?
SW[/QUOTE]
It's important to note that Marauder's do get heavy armor and shield, but don't get the learning bonuses for those skills. That's why it's so difficult to get those skills to level 10.
I recently played a Fighter/Adept/Celestial/Marauder/Deathlord. It took me till about level 42 to finish all the prereqs for Deathlord. I did have a rocking Lightning skill and decent Shards level though.
And, it was quite a surprise when the DL armor dropped!
PS I checked the class list and noticed that it doesn't distinguish between which levels of armor, shield, and weapon skills get learning bonuses. For instance, Maurauder doesn't specifically note that only light and medium armor and shield get bonuses. The same goes for armor, shield, and weapon for fighters. SWC, do you think these variations can be added?
[QUOTE=Frodo1]PS I checked the class list and noticed that it doesn't distinguish between which levels of armor, shield, and weapon skills get learning bonuses. For instance, Maurauder doesn't specifically note that only light and medium armor and shield get bonuses. The same goes for armor, shield, and weapon for fighters. SWC, do you think these variations can be added?[/QUOTE]
Well, there are probably two issues here: just what skills are getting learning bonuses, and how much those learning bonuses are (I don't think all bonuses are equal, but I've never really looked into it). Compiling the data would take me longer than I'd care to spend. But somebody who is more familiar with the saved game editors out there could probably check the information relatively easily. If anybody decides to do this, feel free to post that information here.
SWC
Well, there are probably two issues here: just what skills are getting learning bonuses, and how much those learning bonuses are (I don't think all bonuses are equal, but I've never really looked into it). Compiling the data would take me longer than I'd care to spend. But somebody who is more familiar with the saved game editors out there could probably check the information relatively easily. If anybody decides to do this, feel free to post that information here.
SWC
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
[QUOTE=Frodo1]It's important to note that Marauder's do get heavy armor and shield, but don't get the learning bonuses for those skills. That's why it's so difficult to get those skills to level 10.
I recently played a Fighter/Adept/Celestial/Marauder/Deathlord. It took me till about level 42 to finish all the prereqs for Deathlord. I did have a rocking Lightning skill and decent Shards level though.
And, it was quite a surprise when the DL armor dropped!
PS I checked the class list and noticed that it doesn't distinguish between which levels of armor, shield, and weapon skills get learning bonuses. For instance, Maurauder doesn't specifically note that only light and medium armor and shield get bonuses. The same goes for armor, shield, and weapon for fighters. SWC, do you think these variations can be added?[/QUOTE]
I think I know what's throwing you off. Any time you take a class that repeats a skill the cost of the skill goes down aka bonus. So if you picked up Paladin which has heavy armor then picked up Marauder then the experience point cost of heavy armor would go down and you could say you got a "bonus" in heavy armor with Marauder or vice versa if you picked up Marauder and then picked up Paladin. For example the classes you described you picked up heavy armor with Marauder and got a bonus in heavy armor with Deathlord because the skill is a repeat. You had to raise your armor, shields and weapons to 10 with no bonus in other words you paid the base cost (minus some reduction due to intelligence) So Marauder isn't listed as getting a bonus in heavy armor because Fighter doesn't have heavy armor, but as I described Marauder can give you a bonus if you pick up the skill somewhere else first. Deathlord is listed as giving a bonus in heavy armor because Marauder has the skill and you can't get to Deathlord without Marauder. I hope that makes sense.
I think all bonuses cut skill advancement cost by roughly half but maybe someone knows better then I. D
I recently played a Fighter/Adept/Celestial/Marauder/Deathlord. It took me till about level 42 to finish all the prereqs for Deathlord. I did have a rocking Lightning skill and decent Shards level though.
And, it was quite a surprise when the DL armor dropped!
PS I checked the class list and noticed that it doesn't distinguish between which levels of armor, shield, and weapon skills get learning bonuses. For instance, Maurauder doesn't specifically note that only light and medium armor and shield get bonuses. The same goes for armor, shield, and weapon for fighters. SWC, do you think these variations can be added?[/QUOTE]
I think I know what's throwing you off. Any time you take a class that repeats a skill the cost of the skill goes down aka bonus. So if you picked up Paladin which has heavy armor then picked up Marauder then the experience point cost of heavy armor would go down and you could say you got a "bonus" in heavy armor with Marauder or vice versa if you picked up Marauder and then picked up Paladin. For example the classes you described you picked up heavy armor with Marauder and got a bonus in heavy armor with Deathlord because the skill is a repeat. You had to raise your armor, shields and weapons to 10 with no bonus in other words you paid the base cost (minus some reduction due to intelligence) So Marauder isn't listed as getting a bonus in heavy armor because Fighter doesn't have heavy armor, but as I described Marauder can give you a bonus if you pick up the skill somewhere else first. Deathlord is listed as giving a bonus in heavy armor because Marauder has the skill and you can't get to Deathlord without Marauder. I hope that makes sense.
I think all bonuses cut skill advancement cost by roughly half but maybe someone knows better then I. D
Well, I went and created a marauder / paladin. The maurader really does get a learning bonus to all weapons, all armors, and all shields, just like the game says. Apparently, you can get a learning bonus for a skill, even if you don't have the skill (but whether the learning bonus really helps you before you get the skill, I have no idea).
I also looked at the "power" of the learning bonuses of the marauder and paladin classes. There doesn't seem to be any consistency here. Bonuses can reduce experience costs from 50% to 80%, but I didn't see a pattern. However, it looks like the learning bonuses are interchangeable, so if you get for example two learning bonuses for heavy weapons, the experience cost will drop by the same amount regardless of where the bonuses came from.
SWC
I also looked at the "power" of the learning bonuses of the marauder and paladin classes. There doesn't seem to be any consistency here. Bonuses can reduce experience costs from 50% to 80%, but I didn't see a pattern. However, it looks like the learning bonuses are interchangeable, so if you get for example two learning bonuses for heavy weapons, the experience cost will drop by the same amount regardless of where the bonuses came from.
SWC
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Here are the numbers I came up with. My intelligence was 99 so the amount of exp points needed will be higher if your intelligence is lower. There are 2 situations. In the first I picked up Paladin first then Marauder. In the second one I picked up Marauder first then Paladin. The bonus percentages I give are within +/- 1 %.
LW = light weapons, MW = medium weapons, HW = Heavy weapons
LA = light armor, MA = medium armor, HA = heavy armor
Base cost = exp points need to go from level 0 to level 1
Paladin 1st
LW 68% MW 64% HW 4369 exp (base cost)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 4369 exp (base cost)
Shields the same as armor
Marauder 2nd
LW 68% MW 64% HW 50% (bonus)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 0% or 4369 exp (no bonus)
Shields the same as armor
Marauder 1st
LW 68% MW 64% HW 4369 exp (base cost)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 8880exp (base cost)
Shields the same as armor
Paladin 2nd
LW 68% MW 64% HW 50% (bonus)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 51% or 4369exp (bonus)
Shields the same as armor
So marauder gives you heavy armor and shields but no bonus where as paladin gives you heavy armor and shields with a bonus too. Both give heavy weapons and a bonus to boot.
LW = light weapons, MW = medium weapons, HW = Heavy weapons
LA = light armor, MA = medium armor, HA = heavy armor
Base cost = exp points need to go from level 0 to level 1
Paladin 1st
LW 68% MW 64% HW 4369 exp (base cost)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 4369 exp (base cost)
Shields the same as armor
Marauder 2nd
LW 68% MW 64% HW 50% (bonus)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 0% or 4369 exp (no bonus)
Shields the same as armor
Marauder 1st
LW 68% MW 64% HW 4369 exp (base cost)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 8880exp (base cost)
Shields the same as armor
Paladin 2nd
LW 68% MW 64% HW 50% (bonus)
LA 68% MA 64% HA 51% or 4369exp (bonus)
Shields the same as armor
So marauder gives you heavy armor and shields but no bonus where as paladin gives you heavy armor and shields with a bonus too. Both give heavy weapons and a bonus to boot.
That's strange. When I turned in Paladin first and then Marauder second, I saw a decrease in experience cost by about 50% (14,000 to 6888). So I don't know what to say here.
SWC
SWC
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
[QUOTE=swcarter]That's strange. When I turned in Paladin first and then Marauder second, I saw a decrease in experience cost by about 50% (14,000 to 6888). So I don't know what to say here.
SWC[/QUOTE]
Yes seems weird to me. I'll check it again. I'm going to lower my intelligence to 50, a more reasonable number. D
SWC[/QUOTE]
Yes seems weird to me. I'll check it again. I'm going to lower my intelligence to 50, a more reasonable number. D
I ran through it again and the numbers stayed the same. My Marauder isn't getting a bonus for heavy armor or shields. I tried Paladin/ Knight and they both got a bonus for heavy armor and shields (other numbers are the same).
With intelligence 50
For paladin/ marauder to raise heavy armor from 0 to 1 = 6298
For paladin/ knight to raise heavy armor from 0 to 1 = 3099
Same for shields. D
With intelligence 50
For paladin/ marauder to raise heavy armor from 0 to 1 = 6298
For paladin/ knight to raise heavy armor from 0 to 1 = 3099
Same for shields. D