Cheats. Indepth definition
Cheats. Indepth definition
Ok come on!, how many of us have already beaten the game at least twice? Lets stop doing things we know are cheats and play fair and square, maybe you'll find out its much more interesting.
Level 1: Basic cheats:
Using in game in-built cheats (CLUAConsole, etc)
Personal Excepcion: I'd create a character and modify it via shadowkeeper to
make it like it would have been after Bg1 + totsc (+1 all stats except +3 wis and starting exp points : 161000, the xp cap for totsc. (the original stats must be rolled of course)
Level 2:Taking advance of Any Bug in the game. No 2nd ring of gaax (or any other similar example) , no tricks regarding ilusions (like bypassing summoning limits), no tricks with cloudkill (killing dragons out of sight), no closing doors + cloudkill, or cloudkill + invisibility (they just wait there in the middle of the fog), in general, dont take advantage of the enemy A.I. (leave the room just before the lich casts time stop so he'll do nothing)
No 2nd time playing the game, no 2nd time hell powers
No pausing the game at the beginning to take all objects from Bg1 (sorry bout that cloak of balduran)
No mods with extra items. The only mod I like is ascension , as it basically fixes things already in the game.
Level 3: Roleplaying cheats: No free recharging wands, no unlimited gold via steal & sell at thieves guild, no power gaming (kensai/thief, come on, you only play this for "use any object ability") , no big metal unit (thats just a joke )
Level 4: Advance Roleplaying : No preparing in advance for a battle if it suddenly starts (and your character didnt think it would) , but you can prepare for firkraag if you come back for him since your character would do so too), if you're prepared for a fight but dont know against who, then use your basic set of spells you usally have prepared (that means you dont have that inmunity to spells:abjuration ready for kangaxx cause you never use it normally, even against liches). You can still use a thief to know who's there and prepare a bit if you can.
And thats all for the moment. Each player choses his level of cheats .
Any comments? ;-)
Level 1: Basic cheats:
Using in game in-built cheats (CLUAConsole, etc)
Personal Excepcion: I'd create a character and modify it via shadowkeeper to
make it like it would have been after Bg1 + totsc (+1 all stats except +3 wis and starting exp points : 161000, the xp cap for totsc. (the original stats must be rolled of course)
Level 2:Taking advance of Any Bug in the game. No 2nd ring of gaax (or any other similar example) , no tricks regarding ilusions (like bypassing summoning limits), no tricks with cloudkill (killing dragons out of sight), no closing doors + cloudkill, or cloudkill + invisibility (they just wait there in the middle of the fog), in general, dont take advantage of the enemy A.I. (leave the room just before the lich casts time stop so he'll do nothing)
No 2nd time playing the game, no 2nd time hell powers
No pausing the game at the beginning to take all objects from Bg1 (sorry bout that cloak of balduran)
No mods with extra items. The only mod I like is ascension , as it basically fixes things already in the game.
Level 3: Roleplaying cheats: No free recharging wands, no unlimited gold via steal & sell at thieves guild, no power gaming (kensai/thief, come on, you only play this for "use any object ability") , no big metal unit (thats just a joke )
Level 4: Advance Roleplaying : No preparing in advance for a battle if it suddenly starts (and your character didnt think it would) , but you can prepare for firkraag if you come back for him since your character would do so too), if you're prepared for a fight but dont know against who, then use your basic set of spells you usally have prepared (that means you dont have that inmunity to spells:abjuration ready for kangaxx cause you never use it normally, even against liches). You can still use a thief to know who's there and prepare a bit if you can.
And thats all for the moment. Each player choses his level of cheats .
Any comments? ;-)
I'll agree with you on some of them, but I won't call them cheats. Some of them are CHEAP(like the infinite gold) but it couldn't be considered a cheat, it's just the way the Black Isle made the game. Another cheap one would be using Spell Immunity:Abjuration when you wouldn't normally, just because someone on the internet found it and you do it because you cant blaze your own trail, just follow someone else's.
What I won't agree with you on is about the Kensai/Thief. Black Isle made a bunch of different and new classes, and probably intended for us to test out different ones and find out which ones are the strongest. The Kensai/Thief is a great class, and while its not so great in SOA, in TOB when you get UAI it makes him almost invincible. And while the AI of enemies could/should be enhanced, it may or may not be a disadvantage. Firing cloudkill at dragons and running is a great strategy, especially at a low level. And would you consider the Monk's special ability Quivering Palm a cheat? This can take down Dragons in ONE HIT.
What I won't agree with you on is about the Kensai/Thief. Black Isle made a bunch of different and new classes, and probably intended for us to test out different ones and find out which ones are the strongest. The Kensai/Thief is a great class, and while its not so great in SOA, in TOB when you get UAI it makes him almost invincible. And while the AI of enemies could/should be enhanced, it may or may not be a disadvantage. Firing cloudkill at dragons and running is a great strategy, especially at a low level. And would you consider the Monk's special ability Quivering Palm a cheat? This can take down Dragons in ONE HIT.
Boo will have clean wood shavings you evil bastards! -Minsc
Luke Schenn will make you pregnant with a glance. Caution is advised.
Luke Schenn will make you pregnant with a glance. Caution is advised.
[QUOTE=CEO]Personal Excepcion: I'd create a character and modify it via shadowkeeper to
make it like it would have been after Bg1 + totsc (+1 all stats except +3 wis and starting exp points : 161000, the xp cap for totsc. (the original stats must be rolled of course)[/QUOTE]
If you reroll more than once, is that considered cheating? If you reroll 200 times to get the stats you want, you might as well use a character editor, since the results are the same.
make it like it would have been after Bg1 + totsc (+1 all stats except +3 wis and starting exp points : 161000, the xp cap for totsc. (the original stats must be rolled of course)[/QUOTE]
If you reroll more than once, is that considered cheating? If you reroll 200 times to get the stats you want, you might as well use a character editor, since the results are the same.
Personally, I prefer to stay with the "cheats" and install mods who toughens the fights. tactics, ascension, and so on. Most of what you're mentioning isn't cheat but rather just cheese though. The cheesing in this game has come so far it's impossible to not use it... the greatest joy in the game at this point is finding usefull cheese combos to manage fights like eclipse or improved melissan...
More bout cheese
Vondondu i agree about that, though as many times as you roll you'll never get 18 in every ability so, even rerolling has its limits
About cheese: The option is there for you to not use(abuse) them. Whats the point in looting treasure when you can have infinite amount of gold in chapter 2 ? In anycase you'll end up with more money than you'll ever need but without the cheese at leaste it'll be far more interesting (imho).
Im not sure battles like improved melisan are all that neat. For me its a far more interesting challenge to enter a room you know will trigger a combat and still come unprepared , and then have to think your way out of the situation withouth cheessing, cheating or resting (like the inn in wakeens promenade at the beginning of soa).
What about kangax? Imagine you never knew he was about to use imprisonment... even if you where prepared for a hard lich (they hardly use that spell or similar more than once), , how would you beat him?
Oh, also, using scrolls and items for free on ilusions = cheat lvl 2
running away from enemies you know aren't going to follow so you can full rest and come back for more = cheat lvl 4
Pulling "supossed" inteligent enemies one by one= cheat lvl 4 (would that ever happen really? Imagine: "Hey i just heard a noise of a fight you 5 guys wait here, i'll go investigate?¿?¿?¿?)
Just adding a bit of roleplay to the experience
Vondondu i agree about that, though as many times as you roll you'll never get 18 in every ability so, even rerolling has its limits
About cheese: The option is there for you to not use(abuse) them. Whats the point in looting treasure when you can have infinite amount of gold in chapter 2 ? In anycase you'll end up with more money than you'll ever need but without the cheese at leaste it'll be far more interesting (imho).
Im not sure battles like improved melisan are all that neat. For me its a far more interesting challenge to enter a room you know will trigger a combat and still come unprepared , and then have to think your way out of the situation withouth cheessing, cheating or resting (like the inn in wakeens promenade at the beginning of soa).
What about kangax? Imagine you never knew he was about to use imprisonment... even if you where prepared for a hard lich (they hardly use that spell or similar more than once), , how would you beat him?
Oh, also, using scrolls and items for free on ilusions = cheat lvl 2
running away from enemies you know aren't going to follow so you can full rest and come back for more = cheat lvl 4
Pulling "supossed" inteligent enemies one by one= cheat lvl 4 (would that ever happen really? Imagine: "Hey i just heard a noise of a fight you 5 guys wait here, i'll go investigate?¿?¿?¿?)
Just adding a bit of roleplay to the experience
- Gaal Dornik
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:10 pm
- Contact:
CEO
Bg1 + totsc, +1 all stats except +3 wis
Technically not a cheat. Also one can just as well distribute them to all ppl who were in BG1. How about giving Viconia! +3 WIS
the original stats must be rolled of course
Why is that. As long as one stays in a range of reasonable, that not a cheat either.
you'll never get 18 in every ability so
This is not needed. Only str/dex/con, for a fighter that is. Considering every stat has its lower limit(Rangers f.e have really high lower limits, you'll basically just keep rolling 18s with them.) but with a fighter thats 3 usually. 18-3=15; 15^3=3375 clicks; 2cl/sec=> 3375/2/60=28min. Which means in average, after 14 minutes you'll have the 18/18/18/10/10/10 character ready. With SK its probably around 10min, so the gain isnt even present. :laugh:
No 2nd ring of gaax (or any other similar example)
Thats not possible anyway with a Baldurdash patched game.
no tricks regarding ilusions//no tricks with cloudkill//dont take advantage of the enemy A.I.
agree, obvious cheese.
No 2nd time playing the game
This is just stupid.
all objects from Bg1 Valid point
No mods with extra items. This is hard. Adding content to the game is basically just making another out of it. In this sense, having a +10 sword of death, or Katana +5 is not a cheat, but the person in question isnt playing BG2 either.
No free recharging wands
There is no sense in using wands at all. Where a mage takes his whole life to study something which can be bought for money.
no unlimited gold via steal & sell at thieves guild
Obvious cheat.
o power gaming
This is very subjective. First its the Kensai/Thief. Then someone with an 18 in a stat. Then anyone having more than 10 in a stat.
o preparing in advance for a battle if it suddenly starts (and your character didnt think it would
This is not a cheat or similar. Why? Game is designed for this. Also certain real life scouting features just cant be implemented. If youre walking in a dungeon youll certainly notice any presence. Be it noise, fire, footprints, smell ect..
Kangaxx? Yes, it is to be very expected that in-game characters will very well know who a demi-lich, dragon ect are, and what they are capable to do.(yes, especially these mages with INTelligence 18) The player however, has not a slightest clue, what these things are. And so he'll need to reload after hard learning.
And thats all for the moment. Each player choses his level of cheats .
Since i've played the game with my BG1 dwarf, i guess it makes me a LVL1 cheater
Bg1 + totsc, +1 all stats except +3 wis
Technically not a cheat. Also one can just as well distribute them to all ppl who were in BG1. How about giving Viconia! +3 WIS
the original stats must be rolled of course
Why is that. As long as one stays in a range of reasonable, that not a cheat either.
you'll never get 18 in every ability so
This is not needed. Only str/dex/con, for a fighter that is. Considering every stat has its lower limit(Rangers f.e have really high lower limits, you'll basically just keep rolling 18s with them.) but with a fighter thats 3 usually. 18-3=15; 15^3=3375 clicks; 2cl/sec=> 3375/2/60=28min. Which means in average, after 14 minutes you'll have the 18/18/18/10/10/10 character ready. With SK its probably around 10min, so the gain isnt even present. :laugh:
No 2nd ring of gaax (or any other similar example)
Thats not possible anyway with a Baldurdash patched game.
no tricks regarding ilusions//no tricks with cloudkill//dont take advantage of the enemy A.I.
agree, obvious cheese.
No 2nd time playing the game
This is just stupid.
all objects from Bg1 Valid point
No mods with extra items. This is hard. Adding content to the game is basically just making another out of it. In this sense, having a +10 sword of death, or Katana +5 is not a cheat, but the person in question isnt playing BG2 either.
No free recharging wands
There is no sense in using wands at all. Where a mage takes his whole life to study something which can be bought for money.
no unlimited gold via steal & sell at thieves guild
Obvious cheat.
o power gaming
This is very subjective. First its the Kensai/Thief. Then someone with an 18 in a stat. Then anyone having more than 10 in a stat.
o preparing in advance for a battle if it suddenly starts (and your character didnt think it would
This is not a cheat or similar. Why? Game is designed for this. Also certain real life scouting features just cant be implemented. If youre walking in a dungeon youll certainly notice any presence. Be it noise, fire, footprints, smell ect..
Kangaxx? Yes, it is to be very expected that in-game characters will very well know who a demi-lich, dragon ect are, and what they are capable to do.(yes, especially these mages with INTelligence 18) The player however, has not a slightest clue, what these things are. And so he'll need to reload after hard learning.
And thats all for the moment. Each player choses his level of cheats .
Since i've played the game with my BG1 dwarf, i guess it makes me a LVL1 cheater
As far I'm concerned, the edit-my-game-to-give-me-stats-as-I've-played-through-bg1 is most definitely a cheat. The bonus stats is a benefit you get for struggling all the way through the first game before starting the second one. It's comparable with, say, the golden pantaloos. It's a privilege, not a granted thing. Hrm.
Also, re-rolling and editing stats is not the same thing. I would never use a roll I've not rolled first (edit afterward is a complete different thing), but hey - thats just me.
[QUOTE=Thrifalas][...] On 14 minutes you should have at least a 90 pts char or you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
How? By pressing store instead of re-roll, or what do you mean? ;D
Also, re-rolling and editing stats is not the same thing. I would never use a roll I've not rolled first (edit afterward is a complete different thing), but hey - thats just me.
[QUOTE=Thrifalas][...] On 14 minutes you should have at least a 90 pts char or you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
How? By pressing store instead of re-roll, or what do you mean? ;D
Founder of THDAS: The Haer'Dalis Appreciation Society
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
[QUOTE=Nimiety]He means by rerolling. Store the best one you've seen, reroll until you see one that's better.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I kinda understood that. My comment was to the "or you're doing it wrong"-part, pointing to the fact that re-rolling is just to click a button several times. How could you possibly screw that up? Also, notice the blinking smiley, provided here --> ;D
Yeah, I kinda understood that. My comment was to the "or you're doing it wrong"-part, pointing to the fact that re-rolling is just to click a button several times. How could you possibly screw that up? Also, notice the blinking smiley, provided here --> ;D
Founder of THDAS: The Haer'Dalis Appreciation Society
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
- Gaal Dornik
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:10 pm
- Contact:
To be honest i dont remember anymore, whether stats are rolled or points. So many D&D games which are quite similar, yet different. If points are rolled then its easier yes.
The highest i ever rolled on a fighter was 92, so i just use this number, instead of clicking an hour to try a new class combination.
Crabfish
What do you think about giving Viconia +3 WIS I mean she could very well hang around with party, then get separated blah blah, and we meet again in BG2.
The highest i ever rolled on a fighter was 92, so i just use this number, instead of clicking an hour to try a new class combination.
Crabfish
What do you think about giving Viconia +3 WIS I mean she could very well hang around with party, then get separated blah blah, and we meet again in BG2.
[QUOTE=Gaal Dornik]Crabfish
What do you think about giving Viconia +3 WIS I mean she could very well hang around with party, then get separated blah blah, and we meet again in BG2. [/QUOTE]
I would definitely understand if someone did that, but would never do it myself. As I stated earlier, I think that the tomes from BG and expansion is a boon you get when you play that game, and this also applies to NPCs used in the first game.
This way you get more than roleplaying benefits (aside from the pleasure you get playing the game, of course) when gaming through the whole series instead of just the second game with expansion.
What do you think about giving Viconia +3 WIS I mean she could very well hang around with party, then get separated blah blah, and we meet again in BG2. [/QUOTE]
I would definitely understand if someone did that, but would never do it myself. As I stated earlier, I think that the tomes from BG and expansion is a boon you get when you play that game, and this also applies to NPCs used in the first game.
This way you get more than roleplaying benefits (aside from the pleasure you get playing the game, of course) when gaming through the whole series instead of just the second game with expansion.
Founder of THDAS: The Haer'Dalis Appreciation Society
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
"There is nothing more to be said. Without a further word, you turn grimly back to the stairs before you. Your soul awaits."
spoilers inevitable
An interesting thread. I think that anyone who has already beaten the game twice or more times is in a good position to decide for themselves exactly how to approach their next game, and preserve the most important element; fun. Here are a few of the things I did, some of which relate to your original comments:
1. No stealing from stores at all. I just pretend its not possible and for the first time i have had to spend thousands of gold on spells (three casters in my current party) which previously would have just been lifted. Money management in my current game is fun again as in my first play-through, when i didnt know about stacking potions of thievery and stealing ad lib.
2. No ranged weapons at all. Apart from using fire arrows to kill off the trolls at the keep, I have stuck to this and it is highly recommended. I dont allow melfs or energy blades either.
3. No bags for items. Scroll cases and gem bags are allowed, but the other 'silly' bags are not permitted in my current game. I presume the items in my characters' inventory are already in implied backpacks (and not clutched permanently in their arms, while still wielding swords....) This is easier for experienced players because they know which items can safely be left behind.
This also removes the temptation to recharge things ilegally.
4. Battle preparation. You raise a good point here, in that many of the battles occur somewhat 'by surprise' so it disturbs the integrity of the game if you fully buff up first. However, there are lots of situations where one can see the battles coming by having an invisible scout (something i used even in my first play-through) go ahead disarming traps and checking out the terrain and enemies. Here I think buffing and prepping is fine. Fun and personal taste is the key here: getting into the Mencar Pebblecrusher fight totally unprepared at low levels is exciting and rewarding when you win, but after the tenth reload you might decide it would be more fun to summon a couple and buff a little first.
5. Character stats and abilities/ proficiencies. I like your point about the extra stats being a 'reward' for getting through every corner of BG1 first. I treat the matter differently however, and do as I please with shadowkeeper to alter the characters to my tastes. This is not cheese - this is my reward for completing BG2/ ToB 3 times! When i took mazzy for the first time i noticed she was grand master in bows, in my game with no ranged weapons! So I changed it to swords I gave Nalia 19 int because it makes no difference to the game except that she can scribe the spells i want her to scribe without relying on potions of genius - it saves a couple of mouse clicks here and there. Would I make a character with 25 in every stat? No - because i want to have fun.
6. Extra items from mods. Many of these are far too overpowered and cheesy for my tastes, and spoil the fun of the game if I use them (most of the weapons in 'item-upgrade' for example). Some are fine with me. I was so impressed with Sanchudoku when i first had it that i took it through the game, and made sure I got it in my next game. This time though I accept that it is overpowered and I have not installed the mad kensai mod as a result. On the other hand, I have 'cheated' a bit this time, in a way that makes the game more fun for me: I have altered Nalia's De'Arnise Signet Ring to give it some extra abilities. Nothing too cheesy, but lets just say its a lot better than Edwin's necklace thing
7. Battle cheese. The battles are the core of the enjoyment of the game; seeing my characters succeed and progress as a result remains rewarding to this day, so I fully agree - no cheese allowed, nor wanted as it spoils the fun. On my virgin play-through, I am sure I used the off-screen cloudkill tactic having come up with it myself at the time. That's fine, but as a veteran now i feel obliged to 'wade in' to most stuff. Even if it means running away/ micro-management as a result.
8. Wands. I have never used these too much but have no complaints about them. Generally they are not as powerful as the 'real' spells, but as an experienced player i now know that they are less resistable in some circumstances (eg cloudkill). As for recharging them for free, I can only think that relates to selling them and stealing them back, which would not be possible in my game with no stealing from stores. Wand of resurrection could be construed as cheesy for its healing properties - I pretend it is only useable by my cleric for this purpose, and feel it is fair for him to heal mid-battle with it.
9. Duplicate items on simuls / projects. I dont see a problem here personally. Project Image is a very powerful spell and this is one of the reasons why. Mages are clever and can see the potential of their spells - all power to them.
10. Mods in general. Most of them have their faults, but overall i love them, and applaud the work that has gone into their design. If it adds to the game, is bug-free, and doesnt upset game integrity, I use it. Otherwise i dont. Some experimentation is necessary of course, but examples such as the lich in the underdark, improved bodhi, the extra fights in the docks district and so on are such welcome additions and add fun (and challenge) to the game. Any overpowered items can be left un-installed or ignored in game to suit personal tastes. If you do the lich in the docks unprepared and un-buffed you will probably feel you deserve the cloak of balduran.
11. How are we helping the less fortunate, trudging around in here?
An interesting thread. I think that anyone who has already beaten the game twice or more times is in a good position to decide for themselves exactly how to approach their next game, and preserve the most important element; fun. Here are a few of the things I did, some of which relate to your original comments:
1. No stealing from stores at all. I just pretend its not possible and for the first time i have had to spend thousands of gold on spells (three casters in my current party) which previously would have just been lifted. Money management in my current game is fun again as in my first play-through, when i didnt know about stacking potions of thievery and stealing ad lib.
2. No ranged weapons at all. Apart from using fire arrows to kill off the trolls at the keep, I have stuck to this and it is highly recommended. I dont allow melfs or energy blades either.
3. No bags for items. Scroll cases and gem bags are allowed, but the other 'silly' bags are not permitted in my current game. I presume the items in my characters' inventory are already in implied backpacks (and not clutched permanently in their arms, while still wielding swords....) This is easier for experienced players because they know which items can safely be left behind.
This also removes the temptation to recharge things ilegally.
4. Battle preparation. You raise a good point here, in that many of the battles occur somewhat 'by surprise' so it disturbs the integrity of the game if you fully buff up first. However, there are lots of situations where one can see the battles coming by having an invisible scout (something i used even in my first play-through) go ahead disarming traps and checking out the terrain and enemies. Here I think buffing and prepping is fine. Fun and personal taste is the key here: getting into the Mencar Pebblecrusher fight totally unprepared at low levels is exciting and rewarding when you win, but after the tenth reload you might decide it would be more fun to summon a couple and buff a little first.
5. Character stats and abilities/ proficiencies. I like your point about the extra stats being a 'reward' for getting through every corner of BG1 first. I treat the matter differently however, and do as I please with shadowkeeper to alter the characters to my tastes. This is not cheese - this is my reward for completing BG2/ ToB 3 times! When i took mazzy for the first time i noticed she was grand master in bows, in my game with no ranged weapons! So I changed it to swords I gave Nalia 19 int because it makes no difference to the game except that she can scribe the spells i want her to scribe without relying on potions of genius - it saves a couple of mouse clicks here and there. Would I make a character with 25 in every stat? No - because i want to have fun.
6. Extra items from mods. Many of these are far too overpowered and cheesy for my tastes, and spoil the fun of the game if I use them (most of the weapons in 'item-upgrade' for example). Some are fine with me. I was so impressed with Sanchudoku when i first had it that i took it through the game, and made sure I got it in my next game. This time though I accept that it is overpowered and I have not installed the mad kensai mod as a result. On the other hand, I have 'cheated' a bit this time, in a way that makes the game more fun for me: I have altered Nalia's De'Arnise Signet Ring to give it some extra abilities. Nothing too cheesy, but lets just say its a lot better than Edwin's necklace thing
7. Battle cheese. The battles are the core of the enjoyment of the game; seeing my characters succeed and progress as a result remains rewarding to this day, so I fully agree - no cheese allowed, nor wanted as it spoils the fun. On my virgin play-through, I am sure I used the off-screen cloudkill tactic having come up with it myself at the time. That's fine, but as a veteran now i feel obliged to 'wade in' to most stuff. Even if it means running away/ micro-management as a result.
8. Wands. I have never used these too much but have no complaints about them. Generally they are not as powerful as the 'real' spells, but as an experienced player i now know that they are less resistable in some circumstances (eg cloudkill). As for recharging them for free, I can only think that relates to selling them and stealing them back, which would not be possible in my game with no stealing from stores. Wand of resurrection could be construed as cheesy for its healing properties - I pretend it is only useable by my cleric for this purpose, and feel it is fair for him to heal mid-battle with it.
9. Duplicate items on simuls / projects. I dont see a problem here personally. Project Image is a very powerful spell and this is one of the reasons why. Mages are clever and can see the potential of their spells - all power to them.
10. Mods in general. Most of them have their faults, but overall i love them, and applaud the work that has gone into their design. If it adds to the game, is bug-free, and doesnt upset game integrity, I use it. Otherwise i dont. Some experimentation is necessary of course, but examples such as the lich in the underdark, improved bodhi, the extra fights in the docks district and so on are such welcome additions and add fun (and challenge) to the game. Any overpowered items can be left un-installed or ignored in game to suit personal tastes. If you do the lich in the docks unprepared and un-buffed you will probably feel you deserve the cloak of balduran.
11. How are we helping the less fortunate, trudging around in here?
Agreed. If you want an item, go out and earn the money to buy it. In TOB there is really no need to steal because money is so abundant.No stealing from stores at all
This might be your playing style but I think it is just ridiculus. I always have my casters use ranged weapons to keep them away from the battle because they tend to be weaker and would get killed quick. Especially against Nalmissra and her buddies in Watchers Keep.No ranged weapons at all
What's so wrong with bags? I wouldn't be able to beat the game if it wasn't for the Bag of Holding because I would have got angry when I am trying to pick up a valuable item up and my inventory is full or I am encumbered. And about your comment about backpacks..do you really think Minsc or anyone else would carry around three plate mails and two 2-handed swords in a backpack?No bags for items
Agree 100%. You could have had a scout, played the game once before, or gone through trial and error like I did with Firkraag for an hour.Battle preparation
In my eyes, this is cheating. I mean, changing profincies because you maybe don't use one, like in the case with Mazzy is OK, but you shouldn't have to use Shadow Keeper. All you have to do is restrain from using that thing, whatever it be.Character stats and abilities/ proficiencies
Again, agree. Perhaps Deidre and Joluv, but on my first playthrough, I never had them.Extra items from mods
Totally agree. I loved walking down to Level 6 of WK knowing I beat the hardest group of enemies in the game. I didn't feel so much pride when I beat Demogorgon, because he was way too easy. It took me longer to kill his Mareliths, but people are calling him "the most powerful monster ever put in an RPG". Maybe to low levels, but if you're low level, how the hell could you get past Nalmissra and friends?The battles are the core of the enjoyment of the game; seeing my characters succeed and progress as a result remains rewarding to this day, so I fully agree - no cheese allowed, nor wanted as it spoils the fun.
I never really liked wands. I occasionally used the spellstrike wands but I wouldn't get it recharged; If its out of charges, its on the floor.As for recharging them for free, I can only think that relates to selling them and stealing them back, which would not be possible in my game with no stealing from stores
Nothing wrong here; If it's a spell, it's fair game.Duplicate items on simuls / projects
Now this one is interesting. The only mods I've tried were the Saerelith, Tashia, Kindrek, and Acsencion. The last one was a BIG mistake .Mods in general
Other than that, I use Deidre and Joluv. So really there is nothing wrong with mods, unless they make the game easier.
Boo will have clean wood shavings you evil bastards! -Minsc
Luke Schenn will make you pregnant with a glance. Caution is advised.
Luke Schenn will make you pregnant with a glance. Caution is advised.
Earnest, if you can't steal from stores, then you need to pick up all the items you can find so you can sell them for money. This means you really need a Bag of Holding if you're not going to steal from any stores.
Some of the things you addressed aren't cheating, such as the use of ranged weapons. I realize that you were making suggestions about how to keep the game balanced and challenging, but there's nothing wrong with using some of the techniques you wish to avoid.
Some of the things you addressed aren't cheating, such as the use of ranged weapons. I realize that you were making suggestions about how to keep the game balanced and challenging, but there's nothing wrong with using some of the techniques you wish to avoid.
I rarely use ranged weapons but i hardly find them a cheat
As a lvl 4 cheat: you shouldn't (imho) prepare for combats like the one in waukeens inn, (you dont walk through an inn thinking about having to kill a group of adventureres in it), although you could argue that you are such a bastard you kill anyone with a "posible" interesting loot, in which case you should roleplay everything (not just that fight) acordingly.
Preparing for a demilich? Seriously how many adventurers ever meet with that sort of creature (yep i killid a couple goblins and demiliches yesterday.. you know routine...)? What, do the study the monster compendium before getting in the road? And, since all of the liches before kangax are normal liches what makes you think you characters think this one is going to turn into a demilich?
About upgrading stats because of the books in BG1. Ok , so really the difference is that instead of doing it through shadowkeeper ill have to go search where do i have all my characters who finished BG1 (i know ive got a paladin , a bard, a wizard, a necromancer,a ranger, a cleric...) ,wherever the files are...
About simulacrum and ilusions. Serioly the simulacrum and similar where not implemented so you could have infinite copies of spells, items or whatever, neither they where to overrun the limits of summoning . I cant think of any logical reason why you cant summon more than one planetar and your ilussions can mass an army... or , imagine the artefact in the cult of the beholder.. infinite uses¿? it makes no roleplay sense to me. And i doubt the programmers had that in mind.
I do agree that you can understand rerroling as a cheat.
As a lvl 4 cheat: you shouldn't (imho) prepare for combats like the one in waukeens inn, (you dont walk through an inn thinking about having to kill a group of adventureres in it), although you could argue that you are such a bastard you kill anyone with a "posible" interesting loot, in which case you should roleplay everything (not just that fight) acordingly.
Preparing for a demilich? Seriously how many adventurers ever meet with that sort of creature (yep i killid a couple goblins and demiliches yesterday.. you know routine...)? What, do the study the monster compendium before getting in the road? And, since all of the liches before kangax are normal liches what makes you think you characters think this one is going to turn into a demilich?
About upgrading stats because of the books in BG1. Ok , so really the difference is that instead of doing it through shadowkeeper ill have to go search where do i have all my characters who finished BG1 (i know ive got a paladin , a bard, a wizard, a necromancer,a ranger, a cleric...) ,wherever the files are...
About simulacrum and ilusions. Serioly the simulacrum and similar where not implemented so you could have infinite copies of spells, items or whatever, neither they where to overrun the limits of summoning . I cant think of any logical reason why you cant summon more than one planetar and your ilussions can mass an army... or , imagine the artefact in the cult of the beholder.. infinite uses¿? it makes no roleplay sense to me. And i doubt the programmers had that in mind.
I do agree that you can understand rerroling as a cheat.
re: use of ranged weapons. I didnt say they were cheating. I think they are fair play, but taking them out of one's game creates a new challenge for people used to equipping slings and so forth on mages, or dealing tons of damage with uber bows etc. Apologies that this was slightly off-topic. I still recommend the idea for anyone wishing to play for the umpteenth time.
re: bag of holding. Again its just a way of making the game harder and more replayable -
'do you really think Minsc or anyone else would carry around three plate mails and two 2-handed swords in a backpack?'
no - i think its a necessary part of game mechanics, that these items go into their abstract 'inventory', whatever that means. Are you saying you never carry armors/ large swords in 'inventory' before you get a bag of holding in chapter 4? I certainly dont think they clutch all these items in their arms the whole time. That was my point.
'if you can't steal from stores, then you need to pick up all the items you can find so you can sell them for money. This means you really need a Bag of Holding if you're not going to steal from any stores.'
What you say is true, from a certain perspective - we are used to having as much money as we want, and being able to purchase all those nice items at will. I have found that removing this sense of comfort from the game actually made it more fun to manage money and plan purchases. Ultimately there is nothing unrealistic about having to leave some junk behind because we have no room to carry it.
To me, an experienced player, using the bag of holding 'feels' like cheating, so i dont do it this game, and its fun
re: bag of holding. Again its just a way of making the game harder and more replayable -
'do you really think Minsc or anyone else would carry around three plate mails and two 2-handed swords in a backpack?'
no - i think its a necessary part of game mechanics, that these items go into their abstract 'inventory', whatever that means. Are you saying you never carry armors/ large swords in 'inventory' before you get a bag of holding in chapter 4? I certainly dont think they clutch all these items in their arms the whole time. That was my point.
'if you can't steal from stores, then you need to pick up all the items you can find so you can sell them for money. This means you really need a Bag of Holding if you're not going to steal from any stores.'
What you say is true, from a certain perspective - we are used to having as much money as we want, and being able to purchase all those nice items at will. I have found that removing this sense of comfort from the game actually made it more fun to manage money and plan purchases. Ultimately there is nothing unrealistic about having to leave some junk behind because we have no room to carry it.
To me, an experienced player, using the bag of holding 'feels' like cheating, so i dont do it this game, and its fun
- Deadalready
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I suppose my views are different, if the game designers purposely put in a function then I think it is my right to it as I see so fit. Bags of holding, pausing the game, rerolling, recharging and loading, the designers went to pains to program so I could enjoy them.
However external parts such as mods, shadowkeeper, additional quests and to an extent even fixes I consider cheats and cheating. I can't stand touching shadowkeeper or many mods because I feel I am getting an unfair advantage over other people who play the game vanila.
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Now from what I can tell most of the imposed restrictions is simply roleplaying, if you really want to roleplay then play "ironman" then simply don't save or load games. Afterall of all the impossible things, turning back time is impossible even in the lands of Faerun a if the main character dies that's the end of story.
However external parts such as mods, shadowkeeper, additional quests and to an extent even fixes I consider cheats and cheating. I can't stand touching shadowkeeper or many mods because I feel I am getting an unfair advantage over other people who play the game vanila.
~
Now from what I can tell most of the imposed restrictions is simply roleplaying, if you really want to roleplay then play "ironman" then simply don't save or load games. Afterall of all the impossible things, turning back time is impossible even in the lands of Faerun a if the main character dies that's the end of story.
Warning: logic and sense is replaced by typos and errors after 11pm
Spoiler
, it has yet to return