Important GameBanshee Decision

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:54 pm

Buck,

Three words: tax exempt status.

You can get tax exempt status for social and hobby clubs in the States(and likely in other nations as well). You and the others at Flashlink should look into that.

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:04 pm

I did use Gamebashee (some times I wonder if I was the only one

) but...I remenber that during by BG I days I used fan sites for the items locations...
I belive that is the problem, few use the walkthrue and rather ask about it in the forums, were they usually get the question aswered.
Now if the walkthrue is pay, even less people will use it and many will not pay just to use it.
Also I got my BG I walkthrue from a magazine (even before I got the game) so will people pay for the walkthrue area alone? I dont belive it, but if it helps, go ahead.

Zfalcon · Post by **Zfalcon** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:25 pm

In regards to alternative payment methods you can take a look at [url="http://www.flashlink.com/index.php?p=altpay"]http://www.flashlink.com/index.php?p=altpay[/url] for ways to sign up without a credit card. I am looking into paypal right now since it was mentioned to see if it is feasible to accept payments that way. If it is possible to accept paypal for Flashlink we will add that as an alternative payment method as well.

Thanks again for the support,
David Suit - Flashlink

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:36 pm

Doesn't anyone else find it pretty ironic that webmasters have to pay in order to render a service to the community? That's what Gamebanshee is all about, after all. To me, at least, it seems really bass-ackwards that Buck should have to go bankrupt in order to do us a favor. Hosting a website is right up there with auto insurance in terms of blatant highway robbery. At least it's inevitable that something will be done about webhosting; I have a feeling that I'll be throwing away thousands of dollars on car insurance until I'm old and grey.

At any rate, I'd be more than willing to pay a reasonable rate for access to such a stellar site as Gamebanshee. That said, I think my money (and indeed, everyone else's) is going to be wasted if the forums aren't member-only. People simply aren't going to pay to access walkthroughs and equipment lists. If and when this Flashlink thing becomes a reality, that is.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:51 pm

Well....

I can fully understand Buck, than he is looking for a way to not loose money, simply beacuse of making an internet site.
So for joining a service like "Flashlink" , could be a way to brake even or make money. I don't know how it works.
Although I can see several "but", some that already has been mentioned.
Firstly if, as proposed in the main post, that walkthrough and items list is to be placed in these "links" and not the forum - then people will simply use the forum instead of the other pages. Therefore if you are required to pay at some pages - I think that you eventually have to collect money for the whole site.
Secondly there are peoples reluctance to purchase memberships over then net. For instance because they don't have an international credit card, don't want to use the card and/or don't want to use for instance cheque or banktransfer. Some people simply just don't want to send money across countries and not for gaming sites.
Thirdly, somebody mentioned free sites as competition. Not only are there free sites, and even if they also closed up due to money problems or became "pay-to-view"-sites, there would still be plenty of competion out there. One only needs to bring up the newsgroup (for instance alt.games.baldurs-gate) where I started getting my game information until I found gamebanshee.
Fourth, sites like "Flashlink" also has to survive, and as I quickly looked over the page I can see that they take 1/3 of the fee whereas 1/3 goes to the site referring them and the last 1/3 goes into a pool divided by the sites on base of traffic.
If for some reason for instance "Flashlink" doesn’t make much money, then I could foresee either an increase in subscription fees and/or a cut in the portion that is available to webmasters.
If they increase subscription fees, well then a lot of people will stop using this site and revenues are dropping. If they cut down on Webmaster revenue, well then it is the question if what one is making though this service is enough again. (Even with banners and more).
Also in cost, one got to remember that time spent on the net, is money used. Here in Denmark cost of being on the net is going down – but it is still a significant amount of my “computer cost”
Some people simply can’t afford to pay for both the connection and for material viewed.

So as I see it, such a commitment to a site like “Flashlink” could be a double edge sword.
Firstly it could provide the revenues needed to maintain the site – although I think a lot of people will leave. Also if things don’t go as planned and “Flashlink” doesn’t provide enough revenue, then one is back to square one – but with a smaller community.

Again I haven’t got an answer for these problems (my economic knowledge is not base towards the net). I would, if in Buck’s place most likely take up “Flashlinks” offer and endure the bad things that might follow.

One thing is certain – I’ll not be a part of that community, partly because I don’t have an international credit card (and will not mail cheques) but mostly because I’m strongly opposed to paying for information (or any other item) I can get free other places.

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:36 am

Well, that's a problem.....
I love this site and i think that the job people like Buck are doing is great. They offer us a GREAT site, with a lot of information, news, good message boards......
I don't like the internet paying form; i've never bought something on the web because i don't want to give personal notes on the web. If it's e-mail, address and so on, no problem.....if it's a credit card number it's different.
I don't think the idea of making money with a pay-per-view site is good. I really don't imagine the exact amount of money Buck have to spend every month for keeping this site going on. But if you have to pay for looking the walkthrough and item list, and not for the message board, i think there will be 10 people paying. That's because i think message board is the main reason people come in here. Then they start aprreciating the site. I hope there will be a different solution. I will not pay money for flashlink, but i would pay money to Buck for keeping the site going (even if free would be better....

). If i send Buck 5 dollars (exemple), it will make no difference. But if 1000 people will send Buck 5 dollars, then it will make some difference, i think. And like me, i think there are other people that see the problem this way. It's only a problem of group.
All my support to GB.
And please keep me (all the forum members) informed.
Bye,
E.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:42 am

Having donated and purchased from your links, I would be happy to pay for access to this excellent site.

Short of going broke myself, I would like to assist you in any way I can to keep GameBanshee up and improving.

This is by far the best site of it's kind that I have had the pleasure to be involved with and feel that the gaming world would loose a valuable resource if you went 'off air'.

Do what you need to. You will continue to have my support in any way I can contribute.

Thanks again....

Anatres

LichSlayer21 · Post by **LichSlayer21** » Fri Apr 20, 2001 8:44 am

The way I see it is this many people use GameBanshee and appreciate it I myself would be more than willing to pay 3.95 a month even if I rarely use the Item or Walkthrough section if it was to keep GB going however I would not be willing to send information(credit card #'s) over the internet or any other info like that and that is what I think the main problem is that people are willing to pay a dinky 3.95 but not willing to pay over the internet just my thoughts on the matter

vbarash · Post by **vbarash** » Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:02 pm

This post was saddenning news for me, a I am sure it was for most...

I think the suggestion about people willing to pay, just not over the net, is entirely correct. I am still a dependent, but have (hopefully

) a stable income and would be willing to pay 3.95. But there is no way I'd even ask for my mom's credit card #. Last time that happened, we were ordering a book from Amazon.com, and someone found it out and charged the credit card for $2000!!!!! Not a very good thing, obviously.

I also agree about the fact that noone is going to pay to look at the walkthrough and item lists. Firstly, most of that infor is already in the forum, and secondly, although i may be wrong about this, there is a very important aspect of BG 2 to consider: the saga is ending, and there are definitely not as many people playing it now as in the first "hype" days. Or even if there are, that number will go down. And down. Of course the bandwidth will increase indefinitely if other games are added on... so I may still be wrong. In the end I don't know. That's my 2c.

GrimReaper · Post by **GrimReaper** » Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:08 pm

I personally have never really used either the item or walkthrough sections of this board. In fact, I think the only thing I really have used is the forums. I can get the walkthroughs and stuff elsewhere but the forums here are one of a kind. That said, even though I don't use the other sections, I'd be willing to pay a small fee if that's what it would take to keep this site (mainly the forums) going. Also, as it was said, I would advise against charging for the forums because that would turn away many people that don't want to pay.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:43 pm

I'm afraid to say I think you're gonna hit a dead end here Buck.

If you charge for the walkthroughs and such, people will just get them elsewhere. Charge for what people use mostly, the forums, and a large number of the crowd stop coming because of it, and the others drift off because the forums have become a pale shadow of themselves.

To be honest, I really think you're going to have a hard time charging for anything, until everyone is doing it.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:13 pm

I must agree with Quitch. If you start charging people will just go else where.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 12:47 pm

c'mon cough up ya tight wads!

seriously 3.95 or whatever is FANTASTIC value for money - you could buy a monthly magazine for that and how long do you spend looking at it compared to GB? Especially all you 'exalted members' (where did THAT come from??)

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 12:49 pm

Oh i'm exalted too! ACE!

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 6:54 pm

I'm sad I have been gone for most of this discussion.

I think many of us are a bit uneducated on this subject and are still hopeful that free sites will still be available with walkthrus and such. I hope this is the case, but I'm afraid we optimists are wrong. Indeed, many of the once-free sites are going to subscription. It's sad, and none of us want to make the change ourselves, with our own personal favorite websites. But if the alvernative is to close down Gamebanshee, then I will certainly pay.

However, I agree with many of the previoius posts. I don't think paying for walkthrus will be enough. I worry it will discourage new members from joining. New blood has been one of the wonderful aspects here at GB, so it'd be a shame if most of the lurkers out there passed over GB without stopping, staying, and contributing. Maybe this will change as more and more of these sites change to subscription format.

Buck, one question to consider: Is this a temporary solution? Will this change be enough to keep the site running a year from now, or do you expect to costs to keep escalating as current trends seem to show? I think Flashlink has done an exceptional job and it is the lowest price for such a service I have seen. If we have to go to a subscription service, this one is worthy.

To end, I'd like to extend my appreciation for you and your staff in providing such a great forum here, and I hope to continue being a member for a long time. Let us know how we can continue to help.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 11:52 pm

Originally posted by kopywrite:
<STRONG>c'mon cough up ya tight wads!

seriously 3.95 or whatever is FANTASTIC value for money - you could buy a monthly magazine for that and how long do you spend looking at it compared to GB? Especially all you 'exalted members' (where did THAT come from??)</STRONG>

As I said in my post, it is not only the subscription fee that is keeping me from wanting to pay for Gamebanshee. I already have an internet expense at around 50$ a month, and yes - it is only 3,95 a month.
But as I fear, this will not be the only site you want to subscribe to there will be others, and I don't want to pay for information like this (games).
Another point - who says it is still only 3,95 in 2-3-4 months, and or 4,95 or more??
(Flashlink has to make money too)

I agree with Rail that more sites will most certainly for the next period of time become "pay-to-view"-sites - therefore I, for one, will have to decide with sites to pay for, and as much as I love Gamebanshee - it will not be one of them.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 12:50 am

GameBanshee has exceptional content when it comes to news, walkthroughs, equipment lists, etc. That content undoubtedly draws a great deal of traffic to your site, and subsequently, many of your visitors join the message board. This might lead a reasonable person to believe that you should charge a fee for use of the walkthroughs, equipment lists, etc., even if you were to keep the message board free of charge. Unfortunately, I have to disagree. No matter how good your content might be, not many people would be willing to pay for it as long as they could find similar content elsewhere on the internet for free, no matter how inferior. On the other hand, I would assume that a lot of people would be willing to pay a subscription fee for use of the message board, due to its absolutely unique, personal, and ever-changing content, as long as payments were convenient and the site operators could ensure uninterrupted operation. This suggests the following "business plan". You should use the "content" to attract people to your site, and then encourage people to join a subscription message board. Perhaps one or two forums could remain open for free to provide sort of a "sample", while the rest would be "members only". You could also make a distinction between different forms of content; for example, the walkthrough for a game and a list of items to be found could be accessed for free, but a detailed list of item LOCATIONS or other spoilers would be available to "members only". Why not do a trial run and see how many people would be willing to pay a fee for premium content and a members-only message forum, before you begin charging for the rest of the site (as part of a larger network of "premium sites")? If my idea is wrong, it would be apparent very quickly.

Back in the early 90's, I was a member of several BBS's. Most BBS's worth joining weren't free, especially not the boards where you could play interactive online games, or the popular real-time chat boards. The internet changed all that. Nowadays, everybody wants something for nothing. I'm not surprised that advertising revenues can't pay the bills anymore, and I'm afraid a lot of sites will be shut down when the owners finally get tired of running them at a loss. I hope you find an acceptable source of revenue, and I hope that the people who benefit from your site will realize that if it means so much to them, it's worth paying for.

[ 04-23-2001: Message edited by: VonDondu ]