You have my sympathies Luis. It is beyond my imagination why anyone would want do this. I've never felt so sad before while reading GB, and I hope whoever did this will be arrested and judged appropriately.
One word of advise: don't let hate take you over. Never.
In the day of the Hate.
I did not intend to start a debate in this thread about humans vs. animals, so I apologize for my poor choice of words. Please substitute the word "savages" for "animals" in my last post. In other words, people would all be savages if it weren't for the restraint they learn as they grow up in loving families in civilized societies. Our higher cognitive functions are precisely what enable us to enjoy violence, because we understand the meaning of suffering and have the ability to perceive the feelings of others, and we can act with the intention of deliberately inflicting pain. This is evidenced by our desire to torture criminals (like the one at hand). To the best of my knowledge, feral children do not seem to have a propensity for torture, so the ability to relish violence apparently requires a high level of cognitive and social development that can only be attained by growing up in the company of other humans. There's more, but I think I've said enough. My point was that love and civilized values make a difference and give me hope. People should take solace in their love for one another and comfort one another, since we certainly have that ability, too. It's not much consolation at a time like this, but hope is preferable to hatred and despair.
I'm so sorry to hear this Luis, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family
[url="http://www.gamebanshee.com"]GameBanshee[/url] Make your gaming scream!
"I have seen them/I have watched them all fall/I have been them/I have watched myself crawl"
"I will only complicate you/Trust in me and fall as well"
"Quiet time...no more whine"
"I have seen them/I have watched them all fall/I have been them/I have watched myself crawl"
"I will only complicate you/Trust in me and fall as well"
"Quiet time...no more whine"
IMO... (for what its worth)
I've read various posts in this thread using words like justice, judged, punished... and the hopes that these words will be applied towards whomever is responsible for this crime.
In each instance, I kept having one thought:
The individuals may or may not ever be caught by government authorities. They may go the whole rest of their lives never to be made sorry for what they did.
But I believe that eventually the day'll come, probably many years from now... they'll depart this world... and they'll be on the doorstep to the next world... and they'll meet a greater authority...
And the Greater Authority, beyond any doubts, will make those punks sorry. Eternally sorry.
imo, for what it's worth.
Stay cool, man. I'd bet you got family that needs you.
I've read various posts in this thread using words like justice, judged, punished... and the hopes that these words will be applied towards whomever is responsible for this crime.
In each instance, I kept having one thought:
The individuals may or may not ever be caught by government authorities. They may go the whole rest of their lives never to be made sorry for what they did.
But I believe that eventually the day'll come, probably many years from now... they'll depart this world... and they'll be on the doorstep to the next world... and they'll meet a greater authority...
And the Greater Authority, beyond any doubts, will make those punks sorry. Eternally sorry.
imo, for what it's worth.
Stay cool, man. I'd bet you got family that needs you.
Why is it that whenever I finally get around to playing a new game for the first time,
I feel like playing Baldur's Gate for the second time...
I feel like playing Baldur's Gate for the second time...
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dj_venom
- Posts: 4416
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:00 am
- Location: The biggest island in the world
- Contact:
My deepest sympathies for your and your family.
I think the greatest crimes committed in this world are such acts of rape and paedophilia, simply because it can completely destroy someone.
It may not mean much to read all our posts, but just remember, everyone here on GB is here to support you, and help you through this.
I think the greatest crimes committed in this world are such acts of rape and paedophilia, simply because it can completely destroy someone.
It may not mean much to read all our posts, but just remember, everyone here on GB is here to support you, and help you through this.
In memorian: Fiona; Ravager; Lestat; Phreddie; and all of those from the 1500 incident. Lest we forget.
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Luis Antonio
- Posts: 9103
- Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: In the home of the demoted.
- Contact:
I'm back from the hellhole that was yesterday. She was buried before I actually got there, but I've tried to keep my mind in shape - depression was giving signs of kicking in - by trying to actually collect data to understand what had happened.
First, here is the official story:
Andreza had a very beautifull, striking body and face. Now, she was 16, but as many 16 years old girls in Brazil she had had boyfriends and was hit often by older boys, and had her boyfriend as well.
However, another guy, which I dont know the name yet (yet), but I know where he lives cause we tried to catch him there (fortunately police went there first, or I'd be in jail for killing him with a scythe or after torture) with a crowd of people. Anyway, this guy was driving her nuts - he threatened her cause he wanted her to be his GF. And, after countless ocasions when she wouldnt stay with the guy, who is an underage addict and crime leader of the region (police records say that) he said that if she wouldnt be with him he would leave her a "mark that her family would never forget".
She, of course, dismissed him and started to walk more under protection. However, in the wednesday (8th of august) afternoon (15 hours) on the DAYLIGHT, during a ride that would take her to the clothing company she worked on (she had left her studies last year, poor thing, in exchange to work with clothing as many poor families do) she was caught, I guess that for more than one person, but at least she was caught, taken to a nearby bamboo surrounded clearance, and spanked, tortured, violated for what cannot be a little time. Her face, according to the family, was so crushed that the nurse that tried to reconstruct her face during the night at the legal medicine institute couldnt do much. Her bones in the face were all destroyed. She had a deep incision on the neck - said to be 15 cm wide - that is supposed to be the causa mortis. Her body was covered with spanking marks, her hands and fingers had earth, which means he first beaten, then violated, then killed her to finish the job.
She was left there, her clothes ripped off, and she was found by a boy and his father. The boy saw a foot, and he went to see what it was - she was there. I cant immagine the head of this child. The children's father poked her but she was already cold, and "hard". He called police. My uncle came, started shouting nonsense, then my cousin (her male brother) came and was barred by police, and in his outrage he smacked the officer and run to see what it was. Was not arrested because of the situation only, I guess. They couldnt recognize her for her face. It is said that there was blood all over.
She was caught by the legal medicine institute, autopsied, and the weather there was giving a high 37 celsius every afternoon, so they've decided to give her a short ceremony. When I arrived there (10:30) they were finishing to close the grave.
My uncle, then, called a friend of his on the cellphone, and said the boyo's name. We caught the cars, my father trying to make me stop, he knew what we were doing. A local news man heard where we were going and he warned the police, who was unsuccesfully trying to catch the guy. But we had found it - he had returned to his home to catch his posessions to escape. When we arrived there, the police was in front, four cops with weapons readied. We were something around 15 persons. The guy was arrested, took into the police car, and as we waited, more than 250 persons arrived, all in the mood to deliver justice to the evildoer.
He was taken to the police office, and what was said by the lawiers and the very police officers? that they should have left the boy to us, cause he's a known troublemaker, and that he would get free in, say, two weeks, cause the brazilian law wont let him be judged as adult despite the fact that in six months he'll not be underage.
It is said, though, that he received a beating previously from one of his crime brothers.
I wanted to get my hands on him, to work on him for months yesterday. Today I'm calmer, cause there's no other way. Mabel (my GF) was there, she calmed me all time along. She wanted him to pay, but in the end she told me it was not worthy to dirty my hands with it. Mabel is my angel, for without her, and without the support she always give me I'd be now under another severe wave of depression, and I'm not. Im' ok, thinking well, and planning what to do for lunch as she sleeps.
I also wanted to thank you all. Really. Despite what some people would say, I guess SYM always help me think and reflect about things - specially cause I have to stop and process the whole thing for a while to post it with the details.
The world is sadder today, but I feel I'm hating less than yesterday. Thanks for the support, everyone.
First, here is the official story:
Andreza had a very beautifull, striking body and face. Now, she was 16, but as many 16 years old girls in Brazil she had had boyfriends and was hit often by older boys, and had her boyfriend as well.
However, another guy, which I dont know the name yet (yet), but I know where he lives cause we tried to catch him there (fortunately police went there first, or I'd be in jail for killing him with a scythe or after torture) with a crowd of people. Anyway, this guy was driving her nuts - he threatened her cause he wanted her to be his GF. And, after countless ocasions when she wouldnt stay with the guy, who is an underage addict and crime leader of the region (police records say that) he said that if she wouldnt be with him he would leave her a "mark that her family would never forget".
She, of course, dismissed him and started to walk more under protection. However, in the wednesday (8th of august) afternoon (15 hours) on the DAYLIGHT, during a ride that would take her to the clothing company she worked on (she had left her studies last year, poor thing, in exchange to work with clothing as many poor families do) she was caught, I guess that for more than one person, but at least she was caught, taken to a nearby bamboo surrounded clearance, and spanked, tortured, violated for what cannot be a little time. Her face, according to the family, was so crushed that the nurse that tried to reconstruct her face during the night at the legal medicine institute couldnt do much. Her bones in the face were all destroyed. She had a deep incision on the neck - said to be 15 cm wide - that is supposed to be the causa mortis. Her body was covered with spanking marks, her hands and fingers had earth, which means he first beaten, then violated, then killed her to finish the job.
She was left there, her clothes ripped off, and she was found by a boy and his father. The boy saw a foot, and he went to see what it was - she was there. I cant immagine the head of this child. The children's father poked her but she was already cold, and "hard". He called police. My uncle came, started shouting nonsense, then my cousin (her male brother) came and was barred by police, and in his outrage he smacked the officer and run to see what it was. Was not arrested because of the situation only, I guess. They couldnt recognize her for her face. It is said that there was blood all over.
She was caught by the legal medicine institute, autopsied, and the weather there was giving a high 37 celsius every afternoon, so they've decided to give her a short ceremony. When I arrived there (10:30) they were finishing to close the grave.
My uncle, then, called a friend of his on the cellphone, and said the boyo's name. We caught the cars, my father trying to make me stop, he knew what we were doing. A local news man heard where we were going and he warned the police, who was unsuccesfully trying to catch the guy. But we had found it - he had returned to his home to catch his posessions to escape. When we arrived there, the police was in front, four cops with weapons readied. We were something around 15 persons. The guy was arrested, took into the police car, and as we waited, more than 250 persons arrived, all in the mood to deliver justice to the evildoer.
He was taken to the police office, and what was said by the lawiers and the very police officers? that they should have left the boy to us, cause he's a known troublemaker, and that he would get free in, say, two weeks, cause the brazilian law wont let him be judged as adult despite the fact that in six months he'll not be underage.
It is said, though, that he received a beating previously from one of his crime brothers.
I wanted to get my hands on him, to work on him for months yesterday. Today I'm calmer, cause there's no other way. Mabel (my GF) was there, she calmed me all time along. She wanted him to pay, but in the end she told me it was not worthy to dirty my hands with it. Mabel is my angel, for without her, and without the support she always give me I'd be now under another severe wave of depression, and I'm not. Im' ok, thinking well, and planning what to do for lunch as she sleeps.
I also wanted to thank you all. Really. Despite what some people would say, I guess SYM always help me think and reflect about things - specially cause I have to stop and process the whole thing for a while to post it with the details.
The world is sadder today, but I feel I'm hating less than yesterday. Thanks for the support, everyone.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
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Luis Antonio
- Posts: 9103
- Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: In the home of the demoted.
- Contact:
Now for the individual responses:
@Mag, no, I wont get drunk now. But I have called you, and I'll call you again sometime, dont worry.
@Galuf, I was thinking more in the lines of having a scythe, to kill him with a slash from the lower parts to the upper parts, starting with his buttocks.
@Von, I have faith, yes, but I think I had forgotten it during the last 24-30 hours. Anyway, I have prayed hard, and now I feel better.
@Cuch: Now I'm better. I guess I needed to open, and SYM was great. Shall PM you soon, I'm just in the mood to sleep further now, I've been driving since 4 AM (its 10:11 while I write this).
@CE: Her family is working as a fully destroyed crashed emptied unit. The other kids are married, they've decided to move to their parents home for a few days, and they'll keep an eye on my aunt, who's owner of a heart problem. She was told her kid was in the hospital, so that they'd take her there to tell the news, in fear she would collapse and die. She almost did - aunt Erica needed to be tended at the hospital. Now the family is giving her support. Dad helped with the coffing expenses, cause we live far, but the rest of the family has already made a schedule to try to avoid further confrontation with the boy who did that (not what I wanted, but the supposed to be right thing to do) and to keep them talking, for we think (that was my idea) that letting them open themselves is the better thing that may happen. In 15 days I'll have a new car for sure, and I have my turn scheduled to hear them. Also, the police has contacted the social helper's service and they have already sent a psychiatrist and a social helper to avoid conflict and to heal some of the major wounds. I dont know, I guess my aunt wont be well after this. Uncle will try to kill the boy, that's for certain, he's completely out of his mind (and so was I and Cezar, her brother, and all the male cousins). I guess, if there was blame on my cousin, it was cause she was too beautifull. But she would be proud to be blamed that. The blame lie on that dirty minded boy who saught his own death by slaying her.
@Molto, I love you man, but this time I am (or was) boiling.
@CFM: Thank the Gods he was caught. Otherwise, I guess I'd be on the jail by now. Not that I'd regret it.
@dj: Thanks. I'll always seek support here. GB is a nice bunch of people gathered, and I really need that kind of thing on a daily basis, not to mention when such atrocity happens.
@Everyone else: Thanks. I am a bit tired now, but I'll be online, I guess, on msn or on PM. I'll love to explain further - later.
@Mag, no, I wont get drunk now. But I have called you, and I'll call you again sometime, dont worry.
@Galuf, I was thinking more in the lines of having a scythe, to kill him with a slash from the lower parts to the upper parts, starting with his buttocks.
@Von, I have faith, yes, but I think I had forgotten it during the last 24-30 hours. Anyway, I have prayed hard, and now I feel better.
@Cuch: Now I'm better. I guess I needed to open, and SYM was great. Shall PM you soon, I'm just in the mood to sleep further now, I've been driving since 4 AM (its 10:11 while I write this).
@CE: Her family is working as a fully destroyed crashed emptied unit. The other kids are married, they've decided to move to their parents home for a few days, and they'll keep an eye on my aunt, who's owner of a heart problem. She was told her kid was in the hospital, so that they'd take her there to tell the news, in fear she would collapse and die. She almost did - aunt Erica needed to be tended at the hospital. Now the family is giving her support. Dad helped with the coffing expenses, cause we live far, but the rest of the family has already made a schedule to try to avoid further confrontation with the boy who did that (not what I wanted, but the supposed to be right thing to do) and to keep them talking, for we think (that was my idea) that letting them open themselves is the better thing that may happen. In 15 days I'll have a new car for sure, and I have my turn scheduled to hear them. Also, the police has contacted the social helper's service and they have already sent a psychiatrist and a social helper to avoid conflict and to heal some of the major wounds. I dont know, I guess my aunt wont be well after this. Uncle will try to kill the boy, that's for certain, he's completely out of his mind (and so was I and Cezar, her brother, and all the male cousins). I guess, if there was blame on my cousin, it was cause she was too beautifull. But she would be proud to be blamed that. The blame lie on that dirty minded boy who saught his own death by slaying her.
@Molto, I love you man, but this time I am (or was) boiling.
@CFM: Thank the Gods he was caught. Otherwise, I guess I'd be on the jail by now. Not that I'd regret it.
@dj: Thanks. I'll always seek support here. GB is a nice bunch of people gathered, and I really need that kind of thing on a daily basis, not to mention when such atrocity happens.
@Everyone else: Thanks. I am a bit tired now, but I'll be online, I guess, on msn or on PM. I'll love to explain further - later.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
So she was abused and killed for not wanting to be with this guy? What a horrible story - I didn't realise at first that she was actually found dead, I thought maybe she was found unconscious and injured. I can only hope the perpetrators are put in jail so they will not be able to murder again.
I am relieved to hear that you did not catch the guilty guy. I know the justice system in Brazil is far from optimal, but I really do agree with your GF: do not let these people destroy your lives even more by doing something that would result in you ending up in jail. You don't get your cousin back, and it would add even more problems to your family and friends. Revenge may feel good for the moment, but in the long run it helps nobody.
I hope all of you who knew her are able to support each other in this sad situtation.
EDIT: It will take a very long time for you aunt and uncle to recover from this, I am sure. Good that they have some support, at least. Regarding blame, I am happy to hear there are no signs of "blaming the victim". I mentioned it just because I know it is common in sex-related crimes, and it always adds more damage to the victims.
I am relieved to hear that you did not catch the guilty guy. I know the justice system in Brazil is far from optimal, but I really do agree with your GF: do not let these people destroy your lives even more by doing something that would result in you ending up in jail. You don't get your cousin back, and it would add even more problems to your family and friends. Revenge may feel good for the moment, but in the long run it helps nobody.
I hope all of you who knew her are able to support each other in this sad situtation.
EDIT: It will take a very long time for you aunt and uncle to recover from this, I am sure. Good that they have some support, at least. Regarding blame, I am happy to hear there are no signs of "blaming the victim". I mentioned it just because I know it is common in sex-related crimes, and it always adds more damage to the victims.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
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Cuchulain82
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werebeargoddess
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TonyMontana1638
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I can't tell you how sorry I am Luis. Like Chuch said if there's anything we can do to help at all just say so. I won't lead you one way or the other with my opinions on exacting revenge on this guy because frankly I have no concept of what you must be going through, but it sounds to me you've made a good decision.
"Be thankful you're healthy."
"Be bitter you're not going to stay that way."
"Be glad you're even alive."
"Be furious you're going to die."
"Things could be much worse."
"They could be one hell of a lot better."
"Be bitter you're not going to stay that way."
"Be glad you're even alive."
"Be furious you're going to die."
"Things could be much worse."
"They could be one hell of a lot better."
@ Luis, I am so sorry. I didn't realize they had killed her. I got your calls, but I was working when you called. We get fired for having calls during work hours so I had to ignore them. This situation you described sounds very much like the one Pattie went through when we were dating. She survived it, but, basically a similar situation. Boy wanted her, she said no and she was with me, he said he'd take her if he had to, she ignored him. He ended up dragging her out of her car. It really is horrible this happens. I truly can empathize with you right now. I'm glad your girlfriend kept you calm. She sounds like she really is good for you.
I got your calls, but I was working when you called. We get fired for having calls during work hours so I had to ignore them. This situation you described sounds very much like the one Pattie went through when we were dating. She survived it, but, basically a similar situation. Boy wanted her, she said no and she was with me, he said he'd take her if he had to, she ignored him. He ended up dragging her out of her car. It really is horrible this happens. I truly can empathize with you right now. I'm glad your girlfriend kept you calm. She sounds like she really is good for you. "You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
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ch85us2001
- Posts: 8748
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- Location: My mind dwells elsewhere . . .
Luis, I haven't responded because I haven't known what to say. It is just so wrong that I didn't want to say something to upset anybody.
I'd just like to say, were supporting you. (trying to)
I'd just like to say, were supporting you.
(trying to)[url=tamriel-rebuilt.org]Tamriel Rebuilt and,[/url] [url="http://z13.invisionfree.com/Chus_Mod_Forum/index.php?"]My Mod Fansite[/url]
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it
I am the Lord of Programming, and your Mother Board, and your RAR Unpacker, and Your Runtime Engine, can tell you all about it