[QUOTE=Darzog]Fact 1: US Vice President Cheney shot someone in a hunting accident on 11-Feb-06.
Fact 2: Cheney didn't disclose this information until 12-Feb-06.
Fact 3: Cheney didn't discuss it with anyone in the media until 15-Feb-06.
The importance of these three facts, in the media's eye at least, is #2 then #3 and finally #1. More time has been spent talking about the fact that he waited a day to announce it than in talking about the shooting itself or the status of the victim (who is stable in the hospital and recovering from his mild heart attack).[/QUOTE]
It has also been remarked that the more conservative Fox Station was the one who got to do the interview, which was, by many people's standards, sub-par.
What the news?
-
Hill-Shatar
- Posts: 7724
- Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:41 am
- Location: Hell Freezing Over
- Contact:
-
Fiona
Lestat. That was truly fascinating and it must have been a lot of work. I have read it all, except for the last 3 links on desertification. I couldn't get the middle one to work at all, and this computer rendered acrobat docs very hard to handle. But I hope to be able to read those when I can use the other computer reliably.
From what I can gather the impact of something like the goat scheme is very hard to predict. It is not surprising to find the complexity described here and it seems it is another of those things which intrinsically cannot be reduced to a single measure. The distribution of the goats and the behaviour of those who get them as well as of the wider community all seem to be important. I note you say these goats go to the very poorest, and I am glad to know that. Can I take it that oxfam and others in the field are able to monitor and control how that turns out? Perhaps governments like to associate themselves with such schemes (for good or ill) in different ways in different places?
I take it that the effect of increased livestock on the availability of water is covered in the articles I haven't read yet. I am interested in that since I have read that there is increasing competition for water and that this is a source of conflict in many places already. One of your links did talk a bit about this but it seemed to focus on crop/livestock integration and I may have missed important stuff about the water when thinking about that. I didn't get any sense of how that was built in to the calculations, at any rate.
The article on routes out of poverty was interesting. I liked the way the research was based on the report of the people and their subjective account of what constitutes poverty. That seems a valuable approach to me
I was also interested to see that some effort has been made to include women in the feed block study. I have read that directing programmes to women and givng them some control has been more effective in reducing poverty in India than other more traditional routes. I was wondering if this has been shown to be true in other areas also? Not that that is anything but a digression from the main point
I really appreciate the time you have spent on this. Thanks again
From what I can gather the impact of something like the goat scheme is very hard to predict. It is not surprising to find the complexity described here and it seems it is another of those things which intrinsically cannot be reduced to a single measure. The distribution of the goats and the behaviour of those who get them as well as of the wider community all seem to be important. I note you say these goats go to the very poorest, and I am glad to know that. Can I take it that oxfam and others in the field are able to monitor and control how that turns out? Perhaps governments like to associate themselves with such schemes (for good or ill) in different ways in different places?
I take it that the effect of increased livestock on the availability of water is covered in the articles I haven't read yet. I am interested in that since I have read that there is increasing competition for water and that this is a source of conflict in many places already. One of your links did talk a bit about this but it seemed to focus on crop/livestock integration and I may have missed important stuff about the water when thinking about that. I didn't get any sense of how that was built in to the calculations, at any rate.
The article on routes out of poverty was interesting. I liked the way the research was based on the report of the people and their subjective account of what constitutes poverty. That seems a valuable approach to me
I was also interested to see that some effort has been made to include women in the feed block study. I have read that directing programmes to women and givng them some control has been more effective in reducing poverty in India than other more traditional routes. I was wondering if this has been shown to be true in other areas also? Not that that is anything but a digression from the main point
I really appreciate the time you have spent on this. Thanks again
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]On BBC today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4715332.stm
Sugarcane fuel, worth taking a look.[/QUOTE]
That sounds awful close to rum they're burning :speech:
As far as the Cheney thing...erm, VP of the US shoots someone, in the face, with a shotgun, and waits 14 hours before releasing information on it? Personally, I think he tried to kill him, failed and decided to work out to not have anyone squeel int he incident instead of trying to shoot the man a second time in front of witnesses.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4715332.stm
Sugarcane fuel, worth taking a look.[/QUOTE]
That sounds awful close to rum they're burning :speech:
As far as the Cheney thing...erm, VP of the US shoots someone, in the face, with a shotgun, and waits 14 hours before releasing information on it? Personally, I think he tried to kill him, failed and decided to work out to not have anyone squeel int he incident instead of trying to shoot the man a second time in front of witnesses.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
@ Fiona: Thanks, but probably less work than you think; since my work and especially my studies are related to this field (my thesis was on crop-livestock interaction), it's easier for me to skim through the info that comes up.
And concerning women and development: I always say (and that might seem not politically correct, stereotyping and gender role confirming but bugger all) that Africa's road out of poverty will pass via its women. Money spent on or lent to women is often better for poverty reduction since men have the tendency to spend money on status & luxury while women will spend for their children and family (grossly generalising but large kernel of truth). And that is something that many of my colleagues agree upon (and I think you'll find quite a few studies on micro-credit that confirm that). And you know what's good for children's health? Educating their mothers.
And concerning women and development: I always say (and that might seem not politically correct, stereotyping and gender role confirming but bugger all) that Africa's road out of poverty will pass via its women. Money spent on or lent to women is often better for poverty reduction since men have the tendency to spend money on status & luxury while women will spend for their children and family (grossly generalising but large kernel of truth). And that is something that many of my colleagues agree upon (and I think you'll find quite a few studies on micro-credit that confirm that). And you know what's good for children's health? Educating their mothers.
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
-
Fiona
I couldn't agree with that more and the studies of micro credit in India were pretty much what I was referring to. I didn't know if the situation was the same in Africa and elsewhere. And I didn't know if that kind of thinking was mainstream. As to stereotyping, nothing is true for every individual but there is no reason not to base policy on what is more generally true in any given set of circumstances, IMO. There is a line between stereotyping (eg assuming what is true in Scotland or India will be true in Liberia) and acting on the known facts. It would be wrong to exclude a particular man, but it is right that programmes should decide on the basis of what research indicates is most likely to have the best effect. It is really the distinction between epidemiology and clinical practice translated to a different context and I can't see anything wrong with that at all.
edit. Read two of the three on desertification now and they are also interesting. Still can't open the third one though - freezes this machine when I try.
edit. Read two of the three on desertification now and they are also interesting. Still can't open the third one though - freezes this machine when I try.
-
Fiona
I am bumping this thread because there is a major scandal going on in the UK over funding of political parties and I thought it would be interesting to hear what other people's experience of this kind of thing is.
I understand from speaking to other people here that most places have two houses of parliament, both elected. In this country the upper house (house of lords) is not elected. Until relatively recently it was made up of hereditary peers and life peers, the latter appointed by the queen on the recommendation of the prime minister. There have been "reforms" which reduced the number of hereditary peers dramatically, but the process of reform has not been completed because there has been no agreement about how the house should be constituted.
When the current government came to power in 1997 there had been a series of financial scandals involving members of the previous administration. Tony Blair pledged transparency in financial arrangements for political parties and measures were passed to make it compulsory to declare donations to political parties over £5000 (I think that is the limit)
It has now emerged that very rich men have been encouraged to make "loans" rather than donations, since these do not have to be declared. The labour party has apparently benefited from this, taking such loans to a value of £14 million. The conservative party has also been funded in this way, though I do not know how much they have had.
Some of the lenders have been given peerages, and some have not (yet?). There is a committee which scrutinises the proposed appointments, and they were not told about the loans. Members of the upper house are part of the legislature and they have quite a lot of power (though the lower house can ultimately impose its will, the upper house can delay legislation and has the power to amend it)
Mr Blair has responded by saying he will now change the rules so such loans are declared but he will not do so retrospectively since the arrangement promised confidentiality to the existing lenders, and he will not renege on that. He has once again changed the terms of the debate in his usual fashion, turning it into a conversation about his personal integrity/sincerity. This tactic has served him well in the past, as British people find it difficult to make personal criticism and he has been very successful in changing the subject in this way (though it is surely wearing thin now)
This issue has been high on the news agenda for over a week. There does not appear to be any way of independently investigating the background except through the news media. It seems to me to be an serious attack on the very foundations of democracy, though such a dramatic characterisation is not being touted much. There is a precedent, as I gather Lloyd George notoriously sold peerages in the 1920's (?) and that is a scandal which is remembered.
Apart from the "unfairness" of the process I can envisage this small group of very wealthy men insisting on changes to proposed legislation on pain of calling in the "loans". They can also introduce bills through the upper house.As there is no indication how the party could repay them we now appear to live in a potential plutocracy (though rich people have always had influence this seems more than just quantitative increase in the power of the few, to me)
I wondered if there have been such things in other countries and I also wondered if people from other places find this as depressing as I do?
I understand from speaking to other people here that most places have two houses of parliament, both elected. In this country the upper house (house of lords) is not elected. Until relatively recently it was made up of hereditary peers and life peers, the latter appointed by the queen on the recommendation of the prime minister. There have been "reforms" which reduced the number of hereditary peers dramatically, but the process of reform has not been completed because there has been no agreement about how the house should be constituted.
When the current government came to power in 1997 there had been a series of financial scandals involving members of the previous administration. Tony Blair pledged transparency in financial arrangements for political parties and measures were passed to make it compulsory to declare donations to political parties over £5000 (I think that is the limit)
It has now emerged that very rich men have been encouraged to make "loans" rather than donations, since these do not have to be declared. The labour party has apparently benefited from this, taking such loans to a value of £14 million. The conservative party has also been funded in this way, though I do not know how much they have had.
Some of the lenders have been given peerages, and some have not (yet?). There is a committee which scrutinises the proposed appointments, and they were not told about the loans. Members of the upper house are part of the legislature and they have quite a lot of power (though the lower house can ultimately impose its will, the upper house can delay legislation and has the power to amend it)
Mr Blair has responded by saying he will now change the rules so such loans are declared but he will not do so retrospectively since the arrangement promised confidentiality to the existing lenders, and he will not renege on that. He has once again changed the terms of the debate in his usual fashion, turning it into a conversation about his personal integrity/sincerity. This tactic has served him well in the past, as British people find it difficult to make personal criticism and he has been very successful in changing the subject in this way (though it is surely wearing thin now)
This issue has been high on the news agenda for over a week. There does not appear to be any way of independently investigating the background except through the news media. It seems to me to be an serious attack on the very foundations of democracy, though such a dramatic characterisation is not being touted much. There is a precedent, as I gather Lloyd George notoriously sold peerages in the 1920's (?) and that is a scandal which is remembered.
Apart from the "unfairness" of the process I can envisage this small group of very wealthy men insisting on changes to proposed legislation on pain of calling in the "loans". They can also introduce bills through the upper house.As there is no indication how the party could repay them we now appear to live in a potential plutocracy (though rich people have always had influence this seems more than just quantitative increase in the power of the few, to me)
I wondered if there have been such things in other countries and I also wondered if people from other places find this as depressing as I do?
-
dj_venom
- Posts: 4416
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:00 am
- Location: The biggest island in the world
- Contact:
That is extremely surprising that the upper house has that system. Considering we developed our parliament system from yours, I wonder why we differ there?
Anyway, about the whole loans and donations thing. We had something similar over here. The Liberal party promised that they would not introduce any new taxes, or increase taxes. However, when they were voted in, they introduced 'levies'. As such, a big stink was kicked up, but no one really did anything, because the other party is pathetic.
The issue of them receiving spots as a result of 'loans', is like when businesses would fund political parties here. They still do it, however the amount they can accept has been reduced... though still enough to change some major laws.
Frankly, I think that system is pretty shocking. It seems as though it would be grossly mistreated, with political parties just pushing their people to gain a majority in the Upper House. However over here, that has occurred with the High Court, who over the years, nearly all of them have been brought in by this one party. As such, the party has judicial support, and a majority in both houses. In fact, we're pretty much under their full control.
I think it is a pathetic way of conducting government and should be changed.
Anyway, about the whole loans and donations thing. We had something similar over here. The Liberal party promised that they would not introduce any new taxes, or increase taxes. However, when they were voted in, they introduced 'levies'. As such, a big stink was kicked up, but no one really did anything, because the other party is pathetic.
The issue of them receiving spots as a result of 'loans', is like when businesses would fund political parties here. They still do it, however the amount they can accept has been reduced... though still enough to change some major laws.
Frankly, I think that system is pretty shocking. It seems as though it would be grossly mistreated, with political parties just pushing their people to gain a majority in the Upper House. However over here, that has occurred with the High Court, who over the years, nearly all of them have been brought in by this one party. As such, the party has judicial support, and a majority in both houses. In fact, we're pretty much under their full control.
I think it is a pathetic way of conducting government and should be changed.
In memorian: Fiona; Ravager; Lestat; Phreddie; and all of those from the 1500 incident. Lest we forget.
Town orders house arrest on 'Lewis' after he ambushed the Avon lady
FAIRFIELD, Conn. - Residents of the neighborhood of Sunset Circle say they have been terrorized by a crazy cat named Lewis. Lewis for his part has been uniquely cited, personally issued a restraining order by the town's animal control officer.
"He looks like Felix the Cat and has six toes on each foot, each with a long claw," Janet Kettman, a neighbor said Monday. "They are formidable weapons."
The neighbors said those weapons, along with catlike stealth, have allowed Lewis to attack at least a half dozen people and ambush the Avon lady as she was getting out of her car.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12057893/
....do they really think that Lewis PLANNED to ambush the Avon Lady?
.....along with catlike stealth - NO WAY!!! SAY IT ISNT SOO!!!!!!
FAIRFIELD, Conn. - Residents of the neighborhood of Sunset Circle say they have been terrorized by a crazy cat named Lewis. Lewis for his part has been uniquely cited, personally issued a restraining order by the town's animal control officer.
"He looks like Felix the Cat and has six toes on each foot, each with a long claw," Janet Kettman, a neighbor said Monday. "They are formidable weapons."
The neighbors said those weapons, along with catlike stealth, have allowed Lewis to attack at least a half dozen people and ambush the Avon lady as she was getting out of her car.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12057893/
....do they really think that Lewis PLANNED to ambush the Avon Lady?
.....along with catlike stealth - NO WAY!!! SAY IT ISNT SOO!!!!!!
-
Luis Antonio
- Posts: 9103
- Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: In the home of the demoted.
- Contact:
In the news, this week:
First brazilian astronaut returns safely to earth (that's the better part of it)
The girl Richtoffen, who slain their parents, was recorded receiving instructions to lie to the TV reporter and to pretend to cry, and she did exactly as the guy told her; and she was arrested once again, after receiving an habeas corpus. (my personal opinion on this is that she's disgustingly evil, and deserved a slow death of burning pain).
The rest is about the next presidential run, and that our president is losing terrain for Alckmin, who's the best option for a president on the next 4 years period.
First brazilian astronaut returns safely to earth (that's the better part of it)
The girl Richtoffen, who slain their parents, was recorded receiving instructions to lie to the TV reporter and to pretend to cry, and she did exactly as the guy told her; and she was arrested once again, after receiving an habeas corpus. (my personal opinion on this is that she's disgustingly evil, and deserved a slow death of burning pain).
The rest is about the next presidential run, and that our president is losing terrain for Alckmin, who's the best option for a president on the next 4 years period.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
All over the front pages and the television, the killings in Antwerp.
[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4765855.stm"]BBC article[/url]
very, very
Bit lack of detail, a pity you people don't speak Dutch (or most of you).
[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4765855.stm"]BBC article[/url]
very, very Bit lack of detail, a pity you people don't speak Dutch (or most of you).
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
-
Fiona
[QUOTE=Fiona]It is saddening to find that this may be a Europe-wide phenomenon [/QUOTE]Oh, we're way ahead on you on that count. The Vlaams Belang has about a third of the votes in Antwerp and in Flanders just over 20 percent. Part of that is that it is very well organised and nows how to tailor its message to different groups of voters. In fact it is one of the most successful extreme right parties in Europe, if not the most succesful, at least in terms of votes. I'm not very proud of that. But they haven't made it in any executive on any level yet because the other parties keep to a policy of containment ("cordon sanitaire") and agree to never go in coalition with them.
[/QUOTE]Oh, we're way ahead on you on that count. The Vlaams Belang has about a third of the votes in Antwerp and in Flanders just over 20 percent. Part of that is that it is very well organised and nows how to tailor its message to different groups of voters. In fact it is one of the most successful extreme right parties in Europe, if not the most succesful, at least in terms of votes. I'm not very proud of that. But they haven't made it in any executive on any level yet because the other parties keep to a policy of containment ("cordon sanitaire") and agree to never go in coalition with them.I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
-
Fiona
@Lestat. It is hard for me to appreciate the workings of what I assume to be some kind of proportional representation system, as we don't really have that here (well we do in the so called Scottish Parliament, but that is a parliament in the same sense a decoy duck is a duck). It occurs to me to ask whether, with that level of support, the strategy of overtly refusing coalition will increase frustration and perhaps support, rather than diminishing it. Will those who vote for them not be resentful if they think they are victims in some sense? Also how long before another party breaks ranks, if there is major electoral advantage to be gained? Or is there some reason that would not happen?
[QUOTE=Fiona]@Lestat. It is hard for me to appreciate the workings of what I assume to be some kind of proportional representation system, as we don't really have that here (well we do in the so called Scottish Parliament, but that is a parliament in the same sense a decoy duck is a duck). It occurs to me to ask whether, with that level of support, the strategy of overtly refusing coalition will increase frustration and perhaps support, rather than diminishing it. Will those who vote for them not be resentful if they think they are victims in some sense? Also how long before another party breaks ranks, if there is major electoral advantage to be gained? Or is there some reason that would not happen?[/QUOTE]Those are all good questions, and topics that crop up regularly in debate... Noone has given any satisfactory answers as of yet and noone has come up with a good alternative strategy...
As for parties breaking ranks, we'll see what happens in the municipal elections this year, especially in and around Antwerp. Because if it happens, it will rather be on a local level. Moreover, local chapters of parties can be quite independent minded, and by moments ignore directives from central party headquarters, quite apart from the question of some local parties springing up around specific local questions, which also happens.
As for parties breaking ranks, we'll see what happens in the municipal elections this year, especially in and around Antwerp. Because if it happens, it will rather be on a local level. Moreover, local chapters of parties can be quite independent minded, and by moments ignore directives from central party headquarters, quite apart from the question of some local parties springing up around specific local questions, which also happens.
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
Here in Tennessee in the US, the front page consists of:
1. Bush's domestic spying program.
2. Bush to Unveil Plan to Tighten Border Controls.
3. Thousands Flee From Active Volcano in Indonesia.
4. Son of Top Iraqi Judge Killed in Baghdad.
5. Gas Prices Hurting Low Income Earners.
6. Moussaoui Begins Serving Life Sentence.
7. Beijing Battles With Vatican.
1. Bush's domestic spying program.
2. Bush to Unveil Plan to Tighten Border Controls.
3. Thousands Flee From Active Volcano in Indonesia.
4. Son of Top Iraqi Judge Killed in Baghdad.
5. Gas Prices Hurting Low Income Earners.
6. Moussaoui Begins Serving Life Sentence.
7. Beijing Battles With Vatican.
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a person does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence.