Kreaia would be proud of me...
Goaded by a good friend's joke at my expense, I've decided to try to complete KOTOR2 without any use of the Force. By this I mean:
1) The character currently in the lead will not cast any Force Powers whatsoever.
2) I will never have a Force using NPC in my party, except when it is compulsory. In order to prevent them inadvertantly casting FPs when they are present, I will not upgrade them with any powers that can be used with armour, and I will put them in armour at all times.
3) I will not Jedify any non-Jedi companions
4) I will not use Force Persuade.
5) Neither I nor any of my companions will equip a Lightsaber at any time.
6) None of us will take any passive Force Powers.
What I'd like to hear is any suggstions for the best way to do this.
So far, it occurs to me that:
1) I need a lot of skills, above all, to be able to create good upgrades for ranged and melee weapons, as good upgrades for them are much less often found than those for Lightsabers. Therfore I should be a Sentinel to start with, changing to a Guardian-type at prestige. I should probably start with 16 INT.
2) I should be female. A non-jedified Disciple is a very good tank, being a soldier.
3) I should be Dark Side. Hanharr is deadly with a vibroblade or two, and another great tank.
4) I will need to manage my items very carefully at the workbench(for upgrades) and at the medbay (for stims and medpacs). This will mean that Repair and Treat Injury have a high priority for skills.
I'd be interested to hear any other advice before I start my challenge in 2 days' time
Advice on building a non-Force-Using PC
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lonewolf13
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First off, good luck, your going to need it.
One big problem I see right off is Visas (I hope I spelled it right) As I recall neither she nor Kreia can equip ANY armor, robes only. You can't even give them armor feats. I don't remeber if Kreia has any default force powers, but I know Visas does and she is required on the Ravager.
As far as any advice, Sentenals, by default have high DEX and stealth. I'd go for a stealthy ranged fighter. Get Precise Shot maxed as soon as you can. I'd get a high demolition skill to.
One big problem I see right off is Visas (I hope I spelled it right) As I recall neither she nor Kreia can equip ANY armor, robes only. You can't even give them armor feats. I don't remeber if Kreia has any default force powers, but I know Visas does and she is required on the Ravager.
As far as any advice, Sentenals, by default have high DEX and stealth. I'd go for a stealthy ranged fighter. Get Precise Shot maxed as soon as you can. I'd get a high demolition skill to.
When all else fails, try brute force.
wow, if you pull that off, you will be my all time hero. seriously.
use mandalore. he is, in my opinion, one of th best fighters. you can max out all his good feats, ie sniper shot, rapid shot, power blast, and all his melee feats too.
also, you might want to get as much experience as you possibly can so you can get to level 50 and get all the good feats. meaning exploit any and all bugs/glitches to get xp. like the hssis on korriban and stuff like that.
and you should play as ds to get hanharr, but once you get him you should level out to be nuetral, so as not to get the force powers from kreia. (but you might get them any way, i dunno)
this is such an intruging concept that im thinking of trying it to. hmm... of course youll tell us how you did when your done right? well all wanna know... lol
good luck
use mandalore. he is, in my opinion, one of th best fighters. you can max out all his good feats, ie sniper shot, rapid shot, power blast, and all his melee feats too.
also, you might want to get as much experience as you possibly can so you can get to level 50 and get all the good feats. meaning exploit any and all bugs/glitches to get xp. like the hssis on korriban and stuff like that.
and you should play as ds to get hanharr, but once you get him you should level out to be nuetral, so as not to get the force powers from kreia. (but you might get them any way, i dunno)
this is such an intruging concept that im thinking of trying it to. hmm... of course youll tell us how you did when your done right? well all wanna know... lol
good luck
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya...."
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
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Sir_Greyhawk
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What would you do if, lets say the first time Kreia joins your party you go back to Atton and then when your fighting Hk-50 she uses force push?
Or what if you get really far, lets say your on the ravager and visas uses a force power? I know if I made it that far doing that I'd be gutted.
Or what if you get really far, lets say your on the ravager and visas uses a force power? I know if I made it that far doing that I'd be gutted.
"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
[QUOTE=Sir_Greyhawk]What would you do if, lets say the first time Kreia joins your party you go back to Atton and then when your fighting Hk-50 she uses force push?
Or what if you get really far, lets say your on the ravager and visas uses a force power? I know if I made it that far doing that I'd be gutted.[/QUOTE]
I'd try to go back to a save game and see if I could redo the sequence to get round the problem! If I couldn't, I'd go and cry
I'm thinking that I'm going to need to make use of Solo Mode on the Ravager and when Kreia is with me in the Palace, and leave them some way off. It's probably the only solution. For HK I'll have to keep pausing and swapping characters, filling their queue with attacks... Or else send her in unarmed and deliberately get her killed early on...
[QUOTE=Kayos]and you should play as ds to get hanharr, but once you get him you should level out to be nuetral, so as not to get the force powers from kreia. (but you might get them any way, i dunno)[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. Kreia gives you occasional increses to FPs, but the only actual Power she gives is Beast Trick, and I believe she does that whatever you do. It shouldn't be a problem as Beast Trick serves no known purpose anyway Or am I misunderstanding you?
By the way, and inspection of the facts shows that Handmaiden is just as good as Disciple and also a Soldier, so I shall be male, and get a nice Soldier to fight alongside me earlier in the story.
What do you think for starting Stats? I was thinking STR16 DEX8 CON16 INT16 WIS8 CHA8, my reasoning being that I'm going to go for melee to make use of the ability to cut through shields with a vibroblade, and many of the better suits of armour have 0 Max Dex Bonus anyway, so a low DEX shouldn't be a major problem...
Or what if you get really far, lets say your on the ravager and visas uses a force power? I know if I made it that far doing that I'd be gutted.[/QUOTE]
I'd try to go back to a save game and see if I could redo the sequence to get round the problem! If I couldn't, I'd go and cry
I'm thinking that I'm going to need to make use of Solo Mode on the Ravager and when Kreia is with me in the Palace, and leave them some way off. It's probably the only solution. For HK I'll have to keep pausing and swapping characters, filling their queue with attacks... Or else send her in unarmed and deliberately get her killed early on...
[QUOTE=Kayos]and you should play as ds to get hanharr, but once you get him you should level out to be nuetral, so as not to get the force powers from kreia. (but you might get them any way, i dunno)[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. Kreia gives you occasional increses to FPs, but the only actual Power she gives is Beast Trick, and I believe she does that whatever you do. It shouldn't be a problem as Beast Trick serves no known purpose anyway
Or am I misunderstanding you?By the way, and inspection of the facts shows that Handmaiden is just as good as Disciple and also a Soldier, so I shall be male, and get a nice Soldier to fight alongside me earlier in the story.
What do you think for starting Stats? I was thinking STR16 DEX8 CON16 INT16 WIS8 CHA8, my reasoning being that I'm going to go for melee to make use of the ability to cut through shields with a vibroblade, and many of the better suits of armour have 0 Max Dex Bonus anyway, so a low DEX shouldn't be a major problem...
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walterd140
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:42 am
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[QUOTE=Alcina]What do you think for starting Stats? I was thinking STR16 DEX8 CON16 INT16 WIS8 CHA8, my reasoning being that I'm going to go for melee to make use of the ability to cut through shields with a vibroblade, and many of the better suits of armour have 0 Max Dex Bonus anyway, so a low DEX shouldn't be a major problem...[/QUOTE]
I would keep strength (attack damage) & dexterity (attack hit) the priority. Constitution next (hit points) & not even worry about intelligence & wisdom (both handy for force powers). Maybe a few charisma (influence on others).
How do you plan to do the level ups? May I suggest not going up in force powers for Kiera & Visa & yourself? Know what I mean? Where you pick no new force powers (sorry.... I work 2PM to 10 PM & get up at 6AM, so the mind is not all there at the moment).
As far as Kiera & Visa not using force powers in battle, Visa can wear some armor to null force power out. Give them both a blaster & set their stance on fire support. That should keep them from having time to cast.
Good luck non-Jedi
Walter
I would keep strength (attack damage) & dexterity (attack hit) the priority. Constitution next (hit points) & not even worry about intelligence & wisdom (both handy for force powers). Maybe a few charisma (influence on others).
How do you plan to do the level ups? May I suggest not going up in force powers for Kiera & Visa & yourself? Know what I mean? Where you pick no new force powers (sorry.... I work 2PM to 10 PM & get up at 6AM, so the mind is not all there at the moment).
As far as Kiera & Visa not using force powers in battle, Visa can wear some armor to null force power out. Give them both a blaster & set their stance on fire support. That should keep them from having time to cast.
Good luck non-Jedi
Walter
[QUOTE=Alcina]What do you think for starting Stats? I was thinking STR16 DEX8 CON16 INT16 WIS8 CHA8, my reasoning being that I'm going to go for melee to make use of the ability to cut through shields with a vibroblade, and many of the better suits of armour have 0 Max Dex Bonus anyway, so a low DEX shouldn't be a major problem...[/QUOTE]
with a sentinel, int 16 may be too much of a good thing, you may have more skills then you really need.
likewise str could get knocked down a few pegs if only to get your dex modifier into positives.
dex seems to be a little too low, the flex underlays will allow some dex bonus to a/c late in the game and this helps you hit stuff w/ a blaster in the early game.
i'd go for something like:
str 14
dex 12 (maybe higher depending on int)
con 16
int 14-16
wis 8
cha 8
with a sentinel, int 16 may be too much of a good thing, you may have more skills then you really need.
likewise str could get knocked down a few pegs if only to get your dex modifier into positives.
dex seems to be a little too low, the flex underlays will allow some dex bonus to a/c late in the game and this helps you hit stuff w/ a blaster in the early game.
i'd go for something like:
str 14
dex 12 (maybe higher depending on int)
con 16
int 14-16
wis 8
cha 8
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
[QUOTE=walterd140]I would keep strength (attack damage) & dexterity (attack hit) the priority. Constitution next (hit points) & not even worry about intelligence & wisdom (both handy for force powers). Maybe a few charisma (influence on others).[/QUOTE]
Dexterity for attack hit? Not for melee weapons. It's STR for hit rolls. I was planning to leave the ranged stuff to other members of my team...
My thought was that if I'm to have any chance at all without a lightsaber, I'll need really high grade upgrades for my weapons; to do that, I'll need good skills. I also place a high priority on CON because it coccurs to me that some of the D-implants might be more than usually necessary.
[QUOTE=walterd140]How do you plan to do the level ups? May I suggest not going up in force powers for Kiera & Visa & yourself? Know what I mean? Where you pick no new force powers (sorry.... I work 2PM to 10 PM & get up at 6AM, so the mind is not all there at the moment).[/QUOTE]
I don't plan to level Kreia up. I'm not going to use her except at the two points where one has no choice, and if I don't level her up she'll be killed instantly every battle, especially if I don't allow her to heal. That way she won't get in my way.
For Visas, I was planning only to give her powers that are restricted by armour, then put her in some. Again, I'm only going to use her on the Ravager.
Unfortunately it's not possible to level up without picking Force Powers (you can't leave them as you can skill points)
[QUOTE=mr_sir]it may be an idea to still have a but of wisdom to boost your will saves against force powers etc. (unless you plan on just wearing stuff like the force mask )[/QUOTE]
That has been a bit of a worry, as has the lack of Force Immunity, but I think I'll chance it and rely more on items. Hostile Force Powers are much less of a problem in this game than they were in KOTOR1...no one uses them to the degree that Malak does, for example; even the Jedi Masters seldom do...
[QUOTE=cozivan]dex seems to be a little too low, the flex underlays will allow some dex bonus to a/c late in the game and this helps you hit stuff w/ a blaster in the early game.[/QUOTE]
Yeeeees, but OTOH a person can only wear one underlay at a time, and there are underlays that are more valuable than flexes, which I'll probably go for.
Dexterity for attack hit? Not for melee weapons. It's STR for hit rolls. I was planning to leave the ranged stuff to other members of my team...
My thought was that if I'm to have any chance at all without a lightsaber, I'll need really high grade upgrades for my weapons; to do that, I'll need good skills. I also place a high priority on CON because it coccurs to me that some of the D-implants might be more than usually necessary.
[QUOTE=walterd140]How do you plan to do the level ups? May I suggest not going up in force powers for Kiera & Visa & yourself? Know what I mean? Where you pick no new force powers (sorry.... I work 2PM to 10 PM & get up at 6AM, so the mind is not all there at the moment).[/QUOTE]
I don't plan to level Kreia up. I'm not going to use her except at the two points where one has no choice, and if I don't level her up she'll be killed instantly every battle, especially if I don't allow her to heal. That way she won't get in my way.
For Visas, I was planning only to give her powers that are restricted by armour, then put her in some. Again, I'm only going to use her on the Ravager.
Unfortunately it's not possible to level up without picking Force Powers (you can't leave them as you can skill points)
[QUOTE=mr_sir]it may be an idea to still have a but of wisdom to boost your will saves against force powers etc. (unless you plan on just wearing stuff like the force mask )[/QUOTE]
That has been a bit of a worry, as has the lack of Force Immunity, but I think I'll chance it and rely more on items. Hostile Force Powers are much less of a problem in this game than they were in KOTOR1...no one uses them to the degree that Malak does, for example; even the Jedi Masters seldom do...
[QUOTE=cozivan]dex seems to be a little too low, the flex underlays will allow some dex bonus to a/c late in the game and this helps you hit stuff w/ a blaster in the early game.[/QUOTE]
Yeeeees, but OTOH a person can only wear one underlay at a time, and there are underlays that are more valuable than flexes, which I'll probably go for.
no you understood. i was thinking of those other powers like force choke and all those ones but then i remembered that you have to activate them... god im such a blonde lol.
i was thinking that you should dump alot of points into WIS for better saves and such, making you almost resistant to most force powers. a high INT would be good too. theres not much one can do with a high CON but in this case you might consider it too get more skill points. hmm... as for DEX well i like a high DEX just because i like watching my PC dodge... lol. Id go for a high STR judt because youll be lacking that extra "oomph" with out a saber.
so a high DEX, a high CON, and a high STR is what i would do...
i was thinking that you should dump alot of points into WIS for better saves and such, making you almost resistant to most force powers. a high INT would be good too. theres not much one can do with a high CON but in this case you might consider it too get more skill points. hmm... as for DEX well i like a high DEX just because i like watching my PC dodge... lol. Id go for a high STR judt because youll be lacking that extra "oomph" with out a saber.
so a high DEX, a high CON, and a high STR is what i would do...
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya...."
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
[QUOTE=Alcina]Dexterity for attack hit? Not for melee weapons. It's STR for hit rolls. I was planning to leave the ranged stuff to other members of my team...[/QUOTE]
this would seem to be a tactical error, you may be better off using ranged attacks compared to rushing into combat w/o using force powers to either bail you out or as buffs to give you the edge - your mileage may vary.
otoh some of those high end upgrades will make for some awesome melee weapons even w/ basic vibroblades.
this would seem to be a tactical error, you may be better off using ranged attacks compared to rushing into combat w/o using force powers to either bail you out or as buffs to give you the edge - your mileage may vary.
otoh some of those high end upgrades will make for some awesome melee weapons even w/ basic vibroblades.
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
Fun as hell. Was definetly more challenging than playing jedi's. Things that might help.
1. Play sentinel
2. The upgrades in both ranged AND melee can match jedi lightsaber damage.
3. Get heavy armor or look around for the Ultra fiber mesh.
4. Brianna is a VERY good non-jedi tank, use when needed.
5. Everyone else(with two hands) has dual weilding pistols try finding (mandalorian rippers or micro blasters)
6. Get constitution to 18, the implant upgrades are worth it.
7. Treat injury maxxed.
BTW, the story will suck for you. I still use my normal double-vibroblade(upgraded past 60 damg each side), or dual echani-vibros. There are armors in the game that have natural resistances to damage, that plus the overlays and underlays make you immune to almost anything BUT force powers. Still, towards the end you won't need any backup.
Heh! if your playing Darkside Atton would also be proud of you.
Hope you make it! . . . to the incomplete ending!!!
1. Play sentinel
2. The upgrades in both ranged AND melee can match jedi lightsaber damage.
3. Get heavy armor or look around for the Ultra fiber mesh.
4. Brianna is a VERY good non-jedi tank, use when needed.
5. Everyone else(with two hands) has dual weilding pistols try finding (mandalorian rippers or micro blasters)
6. Get constitution to 18, the implant upgrades are worth it.
7. Treat injury maxxed.
BTW, the story will suck for you. I still use my normal double-vibroblade(upgraded past 60 damg each side), or dual echani-vibros. There are armors in the game that have natural resistances to damage, that plus the overlays and underlays make you immune to almost anything BUT force powers. Still, towards the end you won't need any backup.
Heh! if your playing Darkside Atton would also be proud of you.
Hope you make it! . . . to the incomplete ending!!!
Hmm. OK, my first attempt was a learning experience. I've learned not to come back from the pub and play while full of vodka; I've accidentally taken 'Heal', probably because it's automatically higlighted, and now the wretched man keeps casting it when I'm not looking.
OK, tomorrow I'll start again, this time beng careful what powers I take, making sure they are all restricted by armour...
YaWaNLoNG: I agree with all of these, except that Hanharr ought to be weilding blades not guns, and maybe Bao too
OK, tomorrow I'll start again, this time beng careful what powers I take, making sure they are all restricted by armour...
YaWaNLoNG: I agree with all of these, except that Hanharr ought to be weilding blades not guns, and maybe Bao too
Forgot about those two. . . But i do remember using mandalore, atton, mira and even brianna when i turned visas into a semi-tank(she still might use a forcepower or two though). I did not redo the game with "the exile" using ranged, but now that I think about it I might just try it using a sentinel/weap.master.
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Revan Spirit
- Posts: 72
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Advice
okay first i have to laugh at you for accidently picking heal:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
and for how many times your gonna die:laugh:
now kreias gonna kill you in the final fight (if you even get there without walking off to the pub youve been talking about extremely frustrated several times:laugh: ) i sugest (uhhhhh oh also if play dark it still shows your character using a force power when you (force) push kreia into malachors core) oh i have to go eat now but i am once again laughing at you alicina :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::laugh:
okay first i have to laugh at you for accidently picking heal:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
and for how many times your gonna die:laugh:
now kreias gonna kill you in the final fight (if you even get there without walking off to the pub youve been talking about extremely frustrated several times:laugh: ) i sugest (uhhhhh oh also if play dark it still shows your character using a force power when you (force) push kreia into malachors core) oh i have to go eat now but i am once again laughing at you alicina :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::laugh:
The power of the darkside is strong... ooh look cookies!
hmm... well maybe the 2nd onell turn out better then the first. but remember... third time is the charm... lol that would suck...
what have you learned so far? do plan on making any changes to make things better?
what have you learned so far? do plan on making any changes to make things better?
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya...."
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
I'm half way through Naa Shaddaa, at present, it being the first of my 'choose your own order' planets.
I've discovered that making sure one has decent armour and arms for one's level is very important; at the end of Telos Station I sold or broke down almost everything I owned in order to get a decent Echani Vibrosword. I've also learned to change my under/overlays and blade upgrades according to what's going to happen next. For example, Brianna and Bao Dur are just about to rescue me from GOTO's yacht, so I've upgrades them with ionite edges and ion cells III.
I've leaned to hang onto my breath mask rather than sell it, as I need it in JekkJekk as I can't use the Force to hold my breath!
I've also managed to annoy Brianna to the extent that she won't speak to me, and I don't even know how! Oh well, I can't Jedify her this run anyway.
I suspect from here on in it will get harder as the game is now 'expecting' me to use a lightsaber, which was not so before.
okay first i have to laugh at you for accidently picking heal
and for how many times your gonna die
Why thank you
For picking 'Heal' I certainly deserve laughing at, but I've paid for it in having to go back to the start and begin again. I'm really dreading my first battle with a Jedi...
I've discovered that making sure one has decent armour and arms for one's level is very important; at the end of Telos Station I sold or broke down almost everything I owned in order to get a decent Echani Vibrosword. I've also learned to change my under/overlays and blade upgrades according to what's going to happen next. For example, Brianna and Bao Dur are just about to rescue me from GOTO's yacht, so I've upgrades them with ionite edges and ion cells III.
I've leaned to hang onto my breath mask rather than sell it, as I need it in JekkJekk as I can't use the Force to hold my breath!
I've also managed to annoy Brianna to the extent that she won't speak to me, and I don't even know how! Oh well, I can't Jedify her this run anyway.
I suspect from here on in it will get harder as the game is now 'expecting' me to use a lightsaber, which was not so before.
okay first i have to laugh at you for accidently picking heal
and for how many times your gonna die
Why thank you
For picking 'Heal' I certainly deserve laughing at, but I've paid for it in having to go back to the start and begin again. I'm really dreading my first battle with a Jedi...
yea... brianna got pissed at me too... ive found that she yells at you if you have more influence with visas then her... or if you havnt fought her at least twice before getting visas... i dont know i was just mad because she gives you extra feats when you fight her... i think...
is nar shadaa your 1st planet? cuz im thinkin that dxuns gonna be a problem... well at least the loose end bits... and the ravenger will be a thorn too... like i said, i would beef up and level to 50... also, i take it youre NOT using cheat codes, yes? technically, there not force powers... lol
is nar shadaa your 1st planet? cuz im thinkin that dxuns gonna be a problem... well at least the loose end bits... and the ravenger will be a thorn too... like i said, i would beef up and level to 50... also, i take it youre NOT using cheat codes, yes? technically, there not force powers... lol
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya...."
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"
"Ke nu jurkad sha Mando'ade, burc'ya!"